Starting a man and van service

G

Gateforthboy

Hello, The first thing is of course you're going to need a van. Normally this would be something like a vehicle with a gross weight of 3.5 tonne and a payload of somewhere between 1,000kg - 1,500kg. Volumes will also vary of course depending on the type of vehicle required. This could be a panel van, a short, medium or long wheelbase version and with a choice of varies roof heights. Or, maybe even a Luton bodied type of chassis cab vehicle, with again various load lengths and height. The latter being the best if you intend to carry out smaller type removals. The main problem if buying a used working vehicle is that they are just that and have already in most cases been used to the end of their working life. Be it by years or by mileage. So, often when buying a used working vehicle you could be buying somebody else's trouble! After all most working vehicles would have a life expectancy of around four - six years depending a bit on mileage covered and how they're used during their working life. So, buying a cheap used vehicle could work out much the same as buying a new vehicle in the end.

Reliability is what you need from a vehicle you need for work. Without that reliability means you could be letting any customers you might get down through vehicle breakdowns. Not a good start!

From experience I prefer to buy a vehicle outright rather then lease or buy one on HP. By doing this means that if the work isn't coming in I don't have to worry about falling behind with payments and having the vehicle taken back by the leasing or finance company and then losing my business because of it.

To sum up, to supply a man and van I need £300.00 a day £1.500.00 a week (60k a year before any profit) plus travel (fuel etc) at around £1.00 per mile. Meaning if I can find that many hours of paying work it then leaves me around £35k gross wages after other variable and fixed costs not including travel (fuel etc). Plus if I need another operative as well I have to factor their wages into the equation too.

I would think hard before starting this type of business. Because, there are too many people trying to undercut the costs you need to make a living and pay the variable and other fixed costs from it. I have also noticed people reckoning insurance is only around 1K a year for the carriage of goods for hire and reward. I would seriously check out the cost for insurances before you even start thinking about continuing with this type of business.
 
G

Gateforthboy

Not sure where you're coming from when you say, "Especially one needing such income a week." After all a wage of 35k a year before tax is less than £17.00 per hour. Couldn't live in social housing paying full rent and council tax along with other bills in this day and age on that sort of money. Then of course there are all of the other fixed and variable costs to pay as well. So, how much do you think this all adds up too then?
 
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mattk

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Not sure where you're coming from when you say, "Especially one needing such income a week." After all a wage of 35k a year before tax is less than £17.00 per hour. Couldn't live in social housing paying full rent and council tax along with other bills in this day and age on that sort of money. Then of course there are all of the other fixed and variable costs to pay as well. So, how much do you think this all adds up too then?

I think the question is more around how likely it is you will get a customer paying £300 a day, five days a week, 40-odd weeks a year?

When I moved house, granted it was a few years ago, I paid less than £300 for two men with a van.
 
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JEREMY HAWKE

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    www.jeremyhawkecourier.co.uk
    Thank you for your advice I think I'm going have to send back the leased German and stop the holidays
    On this money I will also have to shop at sports direct

    See the other thread
     
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    G

    Gateforthboy

    I think the question is more around how likely it is you will get a customer paying £300 a day, five days a week, 40-odd weeks a year?

    When I moved house, granted it was a few years ago, I paid less than £300 for two men with a van.
    Exactly the reason people shouldn't waste their time setting up a man and van business. There's always somebody that works for nothing! What I'm emphasising is. "Don't go bust working for others." As far as I'm concerned anybody paying less than £300.00 for a full days work with the facilities that go with it. Aren't customers.
     
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    JEREMY HAWKE

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    Exactly the reason people shouldn't waste their time setting up a man and van business. There's always somebody that works for nothing! What I'm emphasising is. "Don't go bust working for others." As far as I'm concerned anybody paying less than £300.00 for a full days work with the facilities that go with it. Aren't customers.

    More to the point why did you only charge £300

    I would be charging double that plus
     
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    G

    Gateforthboy

    Thank you for your advice I think I'm going have to send back the leased German and stop the holidays
    On this money I will also have to shop at sports direct

    See the other thread
    My son drives 3.5 tonne, 7.5 tonne and 18 tonne vans and lorries for a drinks firm. His guaranteed wage per year is £30.5k. He lives along with his wife and two children aged two and seven in Housing Association property paying full rent and council tax. He runs a Vauxhall Insignia car and his wife doesn't drive. They don't live in an extravagant way either. Time the bills are paid they may just have enough for a holiday. So, even without a mortgage, 30.5k a year doesn't go far. Does it? Oh yes, he still has to shop at Sports Direct too.
     
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    G

    Gateforthboy

    More to the point why did you only charge £300

    I would be charging double that plus
    Think you've got it a little mixed up. It was mattk that mentioned he had paid £300 for the facilities and two staff for moving house. I wouldn't work, man and van only for less than £300 for a days work along with a minimum of two hours for smaller jobs. If I had to factor in somebody else's wages it would be at least £450 for a days work. Along with this I would factor in travel (fuel etc) at another £1.00 per mile at least.
     
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    G

    Gateforthboy

    So do you have a man and van service and you have now talked yourself out of the idea?
    I do have a man and van service and just can't believe that some other so called businesses are charging as little as they are. For what is an expensive operation to keep going. I'm lucky because I'm self sufficient and don't owe money. For instance, I had somebody tell me they had been quoted £200 for a job. Pick up, drive 100 miles, 2.5 hours driving, drop off. Pick up at the same address, drive 100 miles, 2.5 hours driving back and drop off. That's £200 for a full days work with 2 staff, facilities and includes fuel etc.
     
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    Mr D

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    Think you've got it a little mixed up. It was mattk that mentioned he had paid £300 for the facilities and two staff for moving house. I wouldn't work, man and van only for less than £300 for a days work along with a minimum of two hours for smaller jobs. If I had to factor in somebody else's wages it would be at least £450 for a days work. Along with this I would factor in travel (fuel etc) at another £1.00 per mile at least.

    I see adverts on local post office door for man with a van.
    Charges by the job - so if a couple of hours work its £x - no need to charge mileage on top.
    £x is the price, take it or leave it.

    Think you are complicating it with mileage.
     
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    G

    Gateforthboy

    You're not wrong. The only problem with that is a two hour job depending on load size could mean travel of between 5 miles - 25 miles. So, charging for 15 miles of travel lets say, penalises those with less miles of travel and if travel was more. Then of course I would then be losing from the fixed rate charged.
     
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    Mr D

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    You're not wrong. The only problem with that is a two hour job depending on load size could mean travel of between 5 miles - 25 miles. So, charging for 15 miles of travel lets say, penalises those with less miles of travel and if travel was more. Then of course I would then be losing from the fixed rate charged.

    Or as you will know the job details before you quote for it then can factor all that into the price.

    Or simply charge a higher price per hour if basing things solely on hourly rate.
     
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    alan1302

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    Not sure where you're coming from when you say, "Especially one needing such income a week." After all a wage of 35k a year before tax is less than £17.00 per hour. Couldn't live in social housing paying full rent and council tax along with other bills in this day and age on that sort of money. Then of course there are all of the other fixed and variable costs to pay as well. So, how much do you think this all adds up too then?

    Could very easily live on that and pay full rent and council tax - am sure there are many others in the UK that do as well.
     
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    Mr D

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    I only charge enough to pay the wages and other sensible bills. I most certainly do not make a profit on my rates. So, when it comes to times like this. There isn't a slush fund to fall back on to keep wages etc paid.

    Then you are facing ruin.

    You should be charging more - for the times you cannot work, for the times you are busy with non earning stuff, for the future.
    Sticking to simply pay the bills is a bad idea.

    One bad time period can destroy a business. No money to advertise, no money to travel for work, no money to pay repairs. Then no money for you.

    Even the most rabid socialist organisation needs to make a surplus even if not calling it a profit.
     
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    JEREMY HAWKE

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    It all makes sense now

    You are not getting the rates because you are targeting the wrong customers.
    We don't do removals but the ones that do the money on this charge a high rate and market to high end customers and promote themselves as a quality company
    They dont advertise on Facebook Gumtree or the post office or use transport auction sites

    Labeling your business as a man and van is like putting up a big sign that says "We are as cheap as f££k :)

    Use another description for your business
     
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    MBE2017

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    It all makes sense now

    You are not getting the rates because you are targeting the wrong customers.
    We don't do removals but the ones that do the money on this charge a high rate and market to high end customers and promote themselves as a quality company
    They dont advertise on Facebook Gumtree or the post office or use transport auction sites

    Labeling your business as a man and van is like putting up a big sign that says "We are as cheap as f££k :)

    Use another description for your business

    Agree with this. When I had my removal company ten years ago, I was charging a minimum £80 hr, whether loading, unloading or travelling, start to finish. I gained clients on quality and reliability and price. Many do not want to trust the £15 hr boys with a home move.

    Friday nights central London my rates went up to £500 hr. My best day was £2500 in a MWB van on my own, £20 of fuel. If you don’t ask, you don’t get.
     
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    G

    Gateforthboy

    Agree with this. When I had my removal company ten years ago, I was charging a minimum £80 hr, whether loading, unloading or travelling, start to finish. I gained clients on quality and reliability and price. Many do not want to trust the £15 hr boys with a home move.

    Friday nights central London my rates went up to £500 hr. My best day was £2500 in a MWB van on my own, £20 of fuel. If you don’t ask, you don’t get.
    Thanks. That's cheered me up no end.
     
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    MBE2017

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    Nice posh area, you should be charging high rates. Jeremy gave very good advice, avoid calling yourself man with a van, it makes you appear like the hundreds who have no insurance, and turn up in a decrepit van. That said, I did advertise on any platform I could get on, usually for free. I never published rates, but I had hundreds of testimonials from true happy clients. They are what sells your service, it might take a few months to get 50 or so, but upload them all onto your website, the more the merrier.

    I used to hand a paper note pad and pen at the end of a job and ask for a testimonial, never pay for them, never say what to put in them. That way they will appear genuine, since they are.

    I still keep my old website name just in case for the future, the way this virus is going I might start up again. Bear in mind, you need to charge correctly, by the hour, do not quote job totals because they will overrun massively, you will turn up to move someone and find them in their pyjamas with nothing packed. It isn’t going to cost them if you are stood around for six hours. You most importantly have to make enough to upgrade your vehicle every 2/4 years.
     
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