Staff reluctant to drive to internal meeting 1.5 miles away because of no business insurance on car!

[Socio South West]

Your staff have a point...

OK - Turn it round and make it a bit of a staff bonding exercise - take them out of their comfort zone a bit.

A couple of suggestions off the top of my head - Hire a horse and cart to transport them over.... Make it an on foot observation trail/quiz with prizes for the winners.... Any one of a number of ideas to make something positive from this.

 

[WaveJumper]

I have done the same.

We have two policies (for 2 cars!) - I am the main driver on one, my wife is on the other. Interestingly, on my wife’s policy, she (as main driver) can drive any car 3rd party, on my policy I can’t. I didn’t know that before I checked; glad I did.

Yes its interesting how these little tweaks are finding there way in, I am sure I had the conversation when renewing our group "home" policy the days of wife / husband main driver then spouse seemed to have disappeared and the second driver had to be named and was yet another charge. My sons van policy suddenly changed the other year in respect of he was no longer able to drive any other vehicle at the time we thought that this was strange so I spent some time phoning around to check cover from other providers but to no avail. He is the main driver on one other vehicle now and as such able to drive and other vehicle, which was cheeper than being a named driver on other policies. So yes I would agree golden rule check the wording carefully and don't assume because something was there last year it still is this year.

And don't get me started on caravan insurance ?

 

[Bob Morgan]

I'm on tenterhooks -.Will this meeting ever take place?

 

[simon field]

If and when it does, they’ll have all forgotten what it was supposed to be about ?

 

[Blacklaw]

Sounds to me like you have as bunch of lazy staff who just cannot be bothered to come to a meeting.

Using your vehicle for business means where you are self employed and use it to do a job, things like using it for deliveries or as a taxi.
Driving to work or to a meeting doesn't constitute using your car first business purposes, this is normal every day use.

Millions of people all over there world are doing this every day and have been doing so for decades.

I have had a couple of accidents where I have had to claim on insurance, and neither time was I required to tell them where I was going and why, because that is not relevant.

Since you clearly have a whole bunch of other people here stating the complete opposite, I would suggest that you simply contact your own insurance company and ask them for confirmation.

 

[Newchodge]

Driving to work or to a meeting doesn't constitute using your car first business purposes, this is normal every day use.

Completely and utterly wrong.

 

[simon field]

How would anyone ever know?

Just say you’re visiting friends

 

[Bob Morgan]

Evidently this thread now requires a Judicial Review!

 

[DazRave]

Commuting is from your usual place of work. It is clear from the original post that this is definitely not the usual place of work.

Driving to work or to a meeting doesn't constitute using your car first business purposes, this is normal every day use.

Driving to the usual place of work = commuting
Driving to anything else for work including a meeting off-site = business use
Driving anywhere else, to the shops, to see family = social/domestic use

Yes, everyone's policies will include different options but the definition is pretty much the same if you do or don't have it.

I don't know who's wasting time arguing here other than @Blacklaw - which I find quite an ironic username.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Staff are sick to their back teeth of having to pay to go to work and to most work related events! I won’t do it anymore, I won’t loose my money earned to it and I won’t won’t loose my time to it outside of my travel in and home. Staff during the pandemic have had time to realise just how much alot of employers and the work system in general shafts them. We’re sick of it. Most people give the best part of their lives to their employers and a lot of people have finally woken up to how unbalanced the ‘deal’ is in alot of cases. Of course these employers don’t see it that way it’s almost impossible for them to. This employer complaining about their staffs refusal to travel is a prime example of how it’s viewed from their angle without any further thought!

You won't be going to the paid for Christmas Party then?

 

[japancool]

How about if you drive somewhere that's next door to the meeting place to buy a sandwich, because you really want a sandwich from there, and then walk from the sandwich shop to the meeting place?

 

[Newchodge]

How about if you drive somewhere that's next door to the meeting place to buy a sandwich, because you really want a sandwich from there, and then walk from the sandwich shop to the meeting place?

It is simple. Anyone who wants to cheat the system can find ways to do so, including lying to the authorities. That isn't the way I run my business and it's not the way I thought most members of these forums ran theirs.

 

[japancool]

it's not the way I thought most members of these forums ran theirs.

Judging by some of the threads on this forum, that does not appear to be the case.

 

[simon field]

I doubt anyone here is squeaky clean!

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

It is simple. Anyone who wants to cheat the system can find ways to do so, including lying to the authorities. That isn't the way I run my business and it's not the way I thought most members of these forums ran theirs.

Accountants get paid thousands for exploiting loopholes in the system. I think Japancool for be rewarded for his ingenuity

 

[Bob Morgan]

How about if you drive somewhere that's next door to the meeting place to buy a sandwich, because you really want a sandwich from there, and then walk from the sandwich shop to the meeting place?

Steady-on! - You might start a debate on Nut Allergy Labelling for the sandwiches!

 

[Blacklaw]

So out of curiosity, I decided to call my insurance company and ask them this question, especially since it seems everyone wants to argue about this without doing the obvious thing and actually checking the facts.
Plus I am getting rude messages and threats from certain unpleasant people for daring to suggest this wouldn't be classed as a business and for making the common sense suggestion to contact your insurer.


My Insurer (Admiral) confirmed, that driving to a place for a meeting would not be considered as using my car for business and would not invalidate my insurance.


Their rules are that if you drive to 2 or more different places within the same day, that are work-related, then this would be classed as using your care for business.

So if you drove to the office and then to another meeting place, this would be classed as business usage,

Different insurers will likely have different rules, which is EXACTLY why I suggested contacting your insurer (or your staff's insurers) to check, rather than taking advice from people who don't actually know.

 

[WaveJumper]

Well taking the risk of upsetting some (@japancool no I did not write this) from the Admiral website:

Social Domestic and Pleasure

The class of use described as Social, Domestic and Pleasure covers the drivers named on the policy for normal day to day driving. Shopping, visiting friends or family and pleasure driving such as going to the park or on holiday.

For Admiral, this doesn't include commuting to work, but some insurers only offer a combined class of use called Social, Domestic, Pleasure and Commuting. It’s best to check when you’re getting a quote to be sure of the cover you’re getting.

Commuting

Commuting is the next class up, and covers everything included in Social, Domestic and Pleasure, plus driving to and from one place of work in a day. Driving your car to the train station and leaving it there while you go to work counts as commuting for some insurers.

Business use

If you use your car as part of your job, or to drive to multiple sites in one day, this counts as Business use. Admiral’s business use allows door to door selling and merchandise delivery but doesn’t allow deliveries for hire and reward – so that means if you’re moving your own stock or that of your employer, you’re fine with this class of use, but if you’re a courier delivering parcels, you won’t be covered.

Your spouse won’t automatically be covered either, as we break Business use down into two categories:

1. Policyholder only
2. All drivers – that is, the policyholder and any named drivers

 

[DazRave]

EDIT: @WaveJumper - SNAP!

My Insurer (Admiral) confirmed, that driving to a place for a meeting would not be considered as using my car for business and would not invalidate my insurance.


Their rules are that if you drive to 2 or more different places within the same day, that are work-related, then this would be classed as using your care for business.

First of all, I don't think I read that anyone disputed checking individual policies as the go-to solution overall? The conversation actually just took a turn around how policies vary so much that not all staff will be covered to drive to a meeting and therefore didn't want to take the risk. It also covered how so many people assume they are covered to do way more than they actually are and that everyone should check. That's why this thread became so interesting.
Secondly, it's interesting that you are with Admiral as the below post was shared days before your first post.

Actually driving too and from a fixed place of work depends on your policy...

...Read this from Admiral for instance

Which class of use for car insurance do you need? - Admiral

Admiral explains what social, commuting and the business classes of use mean, and the best one to choose to get the insurance cover you need.

www.admiral.com

Social Domestic and Pleasure​

The class of use described as Social, Domestic and Pleasure covers the drivers named on the policy for normal day to day driving. Shopping, visiting friends or family and pleasure driving such as going to the park or on holiday.

For Admiral, this doesn't include commuting to work, but some insurers only offer a combined class of use called Social, Domestic, Pleasure and Commuting. It’s best to check when you’re getting a quote to be sure of the cover you’re getting.

"Commuting is the next class up, and covers everything included in Social, Domestic and Pleasure, plus driving to and from one place of work in a day."

It's interesting as 'in a day' is the sticking point here I think. As an employed person, does that mean one location a day or does that mean the registered place of work on their work contract? Or maybe it means they can only travel to work and back literally once a day (e.g. a single round trip and no going home for lunch unless you want to get the bus back!)

 

[NickGrogan]

My Insurer (Admiral) confirmed, that driving to a place for a meeting would not be considered as using my car for business and would not invalidate my insurance.

So if you drove to the office and then to another meeting place, this would be classed as business usage,

Good to see someone called, but your answer doesn't really help.

First, you say it's okay, then you say driving to work (the office), then driving to a meeting is business usage. I.e. not OK

Unless the OP's entirely pointless, off-site for no good reason, meeting lasts all day, then the insurance won't be valid.

 

[japancool]

For Admiral, this doesn't include commuting to work

Not even if you find the drive to work pleasurable?

 

[NickGrogan]

As an aside what about people with multiple jobs?

I drive to work in one place of work in the morning and then to another site/job in the afternoon.

I've driven to 2 locations, so is this business use? Or have I driven to work twice, i.e commuting.

This could actually affect a lot of people with more than 1 job. Are they all uninsured?

 

[japancool]

Now it makes me wonder... if a police officer is undercover, and is driving without business insurance while undercover, does that mean they are driving uninsured?

 

[Newchodge]

So out of curiosity, I decided to call my insurance company and ask them this question, especially since it seems everyone wants to argue about this without doing the obvious thing and actually checking the facts.
Plus I am getting rude messages and threats from certain unpleasant people for daring to suggest this wouldn't be classed as a business and for making the common sense suggestion to contact your insurer.


My Insurer (Admiral) confirmed, that driving to a place for a meeting would not be considered as using my car for business and would not invalidate my insurance.


Their rules are that if you drive to 2 or more different places within the same day, that are work-related, then this would be classed as using your care for business.

So if you drove to the office and then to another meeting place, this would be classed as business usage,

Different insurers will likely have different rules, which is EXACTLY why I suggested contacting your insurer (or your staff's insurers) to check, rather than taking advice from people who don't actually know.

Congratulations. As the OP was expecting their staff to drive to work (commute) and then drive to a meeting, under the definition you have just explained, that would be business use.

 

[NickGrogan]

Not even if you find the drive to work pleasurable?

What if they drive to the meeting but don't pay any attention at all - then they're not actually working.

 

[DazRave]

@NickGrogan I'm quite literally taking out insurance this week for another year. It asked me if I have any other places of work or another job.

Congratulations yourself ... since the original post does not say that... might want to work on those reading and comprehension skills a bit more and spend less time trolling and arguing.

OP can be both Original Post and Original Poster interchangeably. I think the additional info referenced is further into the thread.

But tbh, you're coming across the most like it's an argument anyway so I'll step out. It's been a good and interesting thread other than @japancool 's attempts to be funny.

 

[WaveJumper]

Not even if you find the drive to work pleasurable?

Thank god I work from home ......... and you know what actually arranging my boat insurance is far less stressful

 

[DontAsk]

So if you drove to the office and then to another meeting place, this would be classed as business usage,

Which is exactly what people have been saying.

 

[Annoying Donkey]

EDIT: @WaveJumper

"Commuting is the next class up, and covers everything included in Social, Domestic and Pleasure, plus driving to and from one place of work in a day."

It's interesting as 'in a day' is the sticking point here I think. As an employed person, does that mean one location a day or does that mean the registered place of work on their work contract? Or maybe it means they can only travel to work and back literally once a day (e.g. a single round trip and no going home for lunch unless you want to get the bus back!)

What if you go home for lunch...? You'll commute twice in a day...

 

[MBE2017]

The obvious solution to this problem, is to call off the meeting and go down your local pub for the day. No one will care by 5pm.

 

[DazRave]

What if you go home for lunch...? You'll commute twice in a day...

That was kind of my point?

The wording I highlighted isn't really clear if it means you can travel to a single address (but as many times as you want) or a single round trip to an address (and perhaps none fixed).

 

[japancool]

It's been a good and interesting thread other than @japancool 's attempts to be funny.

I think you missed the serious point. If the system is SO ridiculous that it can give rise to situations as silly as the ones I posited, there's something seriously wrong with it.

 

[Newchodge]

I think you missed the serious point. If the system is SO ridiculous that it can give rise to situations as silly as the ones I posited, there's something seriously wrong with it.

I am sorry, but I cannot take anyone seriusly who believes that a cucumber is a root vegetable.

 

[kulture]

The bottom line is check with your insurance company and make sure that you are covered for what you ACTUALLY do or might do in the year.

Then if stopped by the police there will be no need to lie or otherwise not tell them the purpose of your journey.

 

[japancool]

I am sorry, but I cannot take anyone seriusly who believes that a cucumber is a root vegetable.

It is important to make sure, when drawing up a policy, your arse is covered, so to speak.

 

[DazRave]

I think you missed the serious point. If the system is SO ridiculous that it can give rise to situations as silly as the ones I posited, there's something seriously wrong with it.

Oh, I got your point, and laughed, at the first post.

 

[GraemeL]

My own insurance states:-

Covered for social, domestic and pleasure use, including commuting to a single place of work, provided no business visits are made on the way.

As far as I can ascertain, it can be a different place of work each day, so long as it is only one per day.

 

[UKSBD]

Mine says, "Social, domestic and pleasure purposes - including travelling to and from a permanent place of work"

I also have the extra "Use by policy holder in connection with the policyholders business"

I don't think it even cost any extra adding the extra for business use

 

[Bob Morgan]

Did anyone bring the Petit Fours?

 

[Blackford Biz]

I find this pathetic by your employees and maybe shows an underlying lack of motivation, morale and teamwork. An offsite meeting could be paid by taxi or letting them claim the government allowance of 45p per mile for business mileage on their expenses.

Charge them for their teas, coffees & biscuits at the meetings ! lol Miserable people.