Sports Direct, zero hour contracts and holiday pay

[groovyjon]

So Sports Direct is in the news today for having 20,000 staff on zero hour contracts. But a lot of reports are saying that they don't provide holiday pay either, e.g. http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/jul/28/sports-direct-staff-zero-hour-contracts

How can this be? I thought holiday pay was a legal requirement. Or do they just mean they get no holiday pay if they worked zero hours that month? Surely if they worked some hours they have to be paid for holiday?

 

[Newchodge]

They are entitled to holiday pay. I assume it is just lazy reporting.

 

[groovyjon]

That's what I thought, but there are several news stories all saying the same thing.

 

[Blood Lust]

So Sports Direct is in the news today for having 20,000 staff on zero hour contracts. But a lot of reports are saying that they don't provide holiday pay either, e.g. http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2013/jul/28/sports-direct-staff-zero-hour-contracts

How can this be? I thought holiday pay was a legal requirement. Or do they just mean they get no holiday pay if they worked zero hours that month? Surely if they worked some hours they have to be paid for holiday?

A zero hour contract is one where the employee simply has no guarentee over their working hours. They could have none one week and 40 hours the next.

The law regarding holiday entitlement remains and is based on how many days they work per week. So if they get on average 24 hours a week which comes out as 3 days work they get the relevant amount of holiday associated with that.

With zero hour contracts employers can have problems retaining staff and motivating them. I'd avoid the company if you can and find yourself a real job to apply for.

 

[Esk247]

With zero hour contracts employers can have problems retaining staff and motivating them. I'd avoid the company if you can and find yourself a real job to apply for.

I bet they don't make the whole 'zero hour contract' thing clear at interview though. They will stick in a positive/negative/positive sandwich and hope the person doesn't question what zero hours actually means.

 

[groovyjon]

I'd avoid the company if you can and find yourself a real job to apply for.

Thanks, although I wasn't actually thinking of applying for a job, just commenting on news stories

 

[mhall]

A certain supermarket does the same - they rely on the fact that most people do not realise that holiday pay is based on hours actually worked.

My cousin is a Manager at a large supermarket and she tells me the managers will tell staff that they have no contracted holiday hours which is a pure statement of fact.

So most people don't kick up a fuss when they don't get paid. If someone books a holiday the comment from the Manager is always "unpaid I assume?" and the "unpaid" box is ticked on the holiday request form. The staff have requested unpaid holiday so unpaid holiday is what they get - thereby underlining and encouraging what I actually think is fraud.

If anyone complains, they just seem to lose their hours. Watching The Mill on Sunday night makes you realise we have come a long, long way in staff care but the big boys are still exploiting them to hell and back.

 

[groovyjon]

they have no contracted holiday hours which is a pure statement of fact.

But this is what I don't get. OK, if they work no hours then they don't accrue any paid holiday entitlement, fair enough. But as soon as they work some hours then surely, by law, they accrue some holiday entitlement? I can't understand how they can get away with it.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

MHALL

OK why dont you name the firm here and bring it out into the open if you are sure of your facts

 

[nelioneil]

Surely if they worked some hours they have to be paid for holiday?

You are right. And don't call me surely

 

[EstherG]

Perhaps they get paid their holiday pay as they earn it and therefore when they take time off there's nothing in the 'holiday pot'?

I've seen employment contracts where this is the case and the worker doesn't see the small print so thinks the quoted hourly rate is before holiday when in fact it's included.

 

[groovyjon]

That's known as "rolled up" holiday pay which is now illegal.

 

[mhall]

MHALL

OK why dont you name the firm here and bring it out into the open if you are sure of your facts

Challenge accepted

It's Asda - (but I am sure Tesco would be doing the same). They are doing nothing illegal. The managers are merely stating that they have no contracted hoilday hours. The fact that they are accruing holidays will only be mentioned if the staff bring it up. If the staff member ticks the "paid" holiday box they will get paid, but the conversation is geared towards this not happening. At the end of the year, any holidays not taken cannot be carried over, so it's in the Managers' interest to "encourage" the staff to think they have none.

It's well within the law and I am sure Head Office will be "shocked and dissapointed" (or at least say they are), but the facts of the matter are that the Managers are targetted on wages % to turnover and it's just one of the many tricks a Manager has at his/her disposal, together with the "loss" of hours if you kick up a fuss and I would be very shocked if senior Managers didn't know it was happening.

They could quite easily add an "accrued holiday so far" line on the wage slips based on the hours worked if they genuinly cared or wanted to stop the practice. They won't, because they would rather turn a blind eye. Eventually enough people will kick up a stink and then we will see a surprised comment from Head Office, but it's been going on for years and the small people won't kick up a stink because they will lose hours and the Unions are hardly encouraged in Asda or Tesco.

 

[Newchodge]

It is not within the law. European caselaw has stated that an employer has an obligation to ensure that workers take holidays due under the working time directive, ie 4 weeks per year or pro rata.

 

[Optegris]

My daughter works for Sports Direct and rarely knows what hours she is working until the day before. She regularly gets told not to bother coming in if the store hasn't hit its targets and has gone weeks without any hours.

It's a shoddy company to work for but in this day and age a job is a job until something better comes up...

 

[emmylou74]

Challenge accepted

It's Asda - (but I am sure Tesco would be doing the same). They are doing nothing illegal. The managers are merely stating that they have no contracted hoilday hours. The fact that they are accruing holidays will only be mentioned if the staff bring it up. If the staff member ticks the "paid" holiday box they will get paid, but the conversation is geared towards this not happening. At the end of the year, any holidays not taken cannot be carried over, so it's in the Managers' interest to "encourage" the staff to think they have none.

It's well within the law and I am sure Head Office will be "shocked and dissapointed" (or at least say they are), but the facts of the matter are that the Managers are targetted on wages % to turnover and it's just one of the many tricks a Manager has at his/her disposal, together with the "loss" of hours if you kick up a fuss and I would be very shocked if senior Managers didn't know it was happening.

They could quite easily add an "accrued holiday so far" line on the wage slips based on the hours worked if they genuinly cared or wanted to stop the practice. They won't, because they would rather turn a blind eye. Eventually enough people will kick up a stink and then we will see a surprised comment from Head Office, but it's been going on for years and the small people won't kick up a stink because they will lose hours and the Unions are hardly encouraged in Asda or Tesco.

In my last year for working for Asda they split the holidays up so you could have a certain percentage of your allowance in winter, summer etc. That summer there just was not enough cover for the holidays, so because I did not have kids I said I would take my holidays at the end when the kids went back. My manager was brilliant that helps loads. So it comes to end of the summer holidays I go to take my holiday and am refused and told because I did not take my holiday in the alloted allowance period it was lost. Then my manager said she never came to that agreement.

After that incident because I put in a complaint I was totally harrased out of the job - it was really bad.

There is no protection as a worker at all from these companies. Although they have done me a favour - I am much happier self employed

 

[mhall]

It is not within the law. European caselaw has stated that an employer has an obligation to ensure that workers take holidays due under the working time directive, ie 4 weeks per year or pro rata.

Feel free to take them on - what they say and what the Manager under pressure says are two different things - and it would appear that what they MUST do seems to get lost in the translation to the branches and presumabaly are never mentioned in the Management Huddles !

EDIT - to be fair, I checked today and I am told that Asda don't have "Zero" hour contracts but they have "flexible" hour contracts. Someone who was cynical could suggest they amount to the same thing. I am sure that, at Head Office they do everything to the letter, but as emmylou74 points out, that is not always cascaded down. Managers have targets to hit.

 

[EstherG]

That's known as "rolled up" holiday pay which is now illegal.

Hi Groovyjon

You are right rolled up holiday pay is not allowed but the employment contracts I refer to are different and all written by one of the 'big four' accountancy firms.

Holiday pay is paid and shown on the payslips but the worker receives it in the week that they earn it, rather than it automatically going into a pot for time off later. Of course by law employees are allowed to opt to accrue the holiday but very rarely do, because they don't understand, don't plan on staying in the job that long or want as much money as possible now.

Esther

 

[groovyjon]

So it's basically rolled up holiday pay in all but name? Interesting.

 

[beasty]

A certain supermarket does the same - they rely on the fact that most people do not realise that holiday pay is based on hours actually worked.

My cousin is a Manager at a large supermarket and she tells me the managers will tell staff that they have no contracted holiday hours which is a pure statement of fact.

So most people don't kick up a fuss when they don't get paid. If someone books a holiday the comment from the Manager is always "unpaid I assume?" and the "unpaid" box is ticked on the holiday request form. The staff have requested unpaid holiday so unpaid holiday is what they get - thereby underlining and encouraging what I actually think is fraud.

If anyone complains, they just seem to lose their hours. Watching The Mill on Sunday night makes you realise we have come a long, long way in staff care but the big boys are still exploiting them to hell and back.

Might be UNPAID, but that is not them waiving their right to the PAID holiday they are still due... company gives you UNPAID holiday, thanks.. I am still taking my paid holiday too..

 

[cucumber]

The worst aspect of this isn't the holiday days or lack of them IMO but the fact while on a zero hour contract you're not able to work for another company. So while you're not getting any work and not getting paid you're not able to get other work while in that contract.

 

[Newchodge]

Strictly speaking a zero hours contract should have equity - the employer does not have to offer hours and the employee does not have to accept them and has freedom to do whatever they want when not working.

Unfortunately the power lies with the employer, many of whom exploit their staff because they can.