Somthing quite funny

[JoyDivision]

On another forum somebody was going on about how there is no money in web development and all the rest of it. So I decided to look at their website, it turns out the design was table based (Frontpage style) and the title tags was missing of each page. There was also no ALT tags and no coding scheme was used, i.e it wasn't HTML 4.0 or XHTML, it was just random tags which happened to work in I.E.

My point of this thread? When looking for a web developer make sure they actualy no how to make websites and have not just read Front Page for dummies.

On that note some web developers hand code everything some use a program like Dreamweaver. My view is that dosn't matter, if website is constructed properly and looks good it dosn't matter how it was made.

I personaly prefer the open source text editor route but I don't look down on Dreamweaver provided its used properly.

 

[epiphany]

I think it is about time we seen your work joy And I mean that in the nicest possible way

 

[SuffolkDesigns]

could this be it ?

http://www.joydivision.co.uk/

 

[clairemackaness]

Believe it or not I read frontpage for dummies and you probably couldn't guess.

Joy, are you using a web developer?

 

[Jayne]

could this be it ?

http://www.joydivision.co.uk/

How do you get on the other pages, only saw the home page?

Jayne

 

[Ravenfire]

I dont think that there are any other pages yet

Toni

 

[kyber]

On that note some web developers hand code everything some use a program like Dreamweaver. My view is that dosn't matter, if website is constructed properly and looks good it dosn't matter how it was made.

Depends what you mean by constructed properly. If you mean that the site follows web standards, is accesible, easy to maintain, efficient and effective, optimised for search engines and is fit for purpose in terms of meeting the client brief (promoting the brand, making the proposition clear, retaining visitors, is sticky, etc.) then you are right. Major web design/development houses have huge resources spread over various disciplines but the one man bands that tend to serve the SME community have to be so multi-skilled (much like most people in SME businesses) it is not surprising that we find such a wide range of capabilities on offer.

Sadly, there are few useful qualifications applicable to web design and development that could provide some comfort to prospective clients in selecting a supplier and often sites that look visually good and clever are not "constructed properly". Word of mouth and demonstrable results are the only real guides.

Many of the so called web designers/developers that pop up are very technically focused (and not always that good) whilst for most businesses, good old 80:20 rules apply and a good enough site backed up with decent business processes will be far more effective than a technically superb site. There have been many mentions on this forum of web designers/developers who simply fail to communicate effectively, miss deadlines, and fail to carry out some basic administrative works.

I do not know if you are a developer or not Joydivision and it does not really matter. You do not have to be able to drive a car, let alone understand the internal combustion engine, to be able to comment on whether the ride was comfortable, seemed safe and efficient. If you are though, it would be interesting to see your work given your comments.

Stuart

 

[webit]

I was once seconded to a leading design shop (www.proxicom.com) and the line was that DW was never to be used. Everything had to be done by hand (usually by TextPad)

Come on JoyDivision - help us to help you - lets see the goods.

 

[Dread]

I dont see why it should be a requirement not to use dreamweaver, thats kinda daft, if they said you should dreamweaver generated code then i'd completely agree.

I hand code everything i do and i use dreamweaver. Mainly because i like the way it works and organises my projects into "sites", i also like the syntax highlighting, this means i'll never miss a quote here or there as i'd spot the highlighting going to buggery.

One thing i'd never use dreamweaver for is autogeneration of code, i tryed that once and got too frustrated with it not doing it the way i wanted it done. I make a point to know what every line does on the page ive just made.

Using dreamweaver, front page or some other program is fine if your doing your own site, but if your getting paid to do it then you should be hand coding it.

 

[JoyDivision]

Dreamweaver is great for the management of large projects though, I used it at work but all the sites were hand coded.

Oh you asked for the goods, its still not complete yet becuase my uncle died recently and I have not finished it off but as far as users are concerned it works fine, its just only the front page validates at the moment and I still need to add the access keys. I will do it tonight if I get time. This why I haven't posted it becuase its not finished.

www.cascade-cleaning.co.uk

My other sites are rather old now, I have a club night one but thats still very much in development.

PS That Joy Division site is nothing to with me, Joy Division is a very famous band, do a google search for it and you will see 10000's of sites dedicated to them.

 

[kyber]

JoyDivision,

I look forward to seeing the completed site.

Just in passing, you still have some presentation mixed up with the content (e.g.
) and also your first heading is a <h3> rather than a <h1> which is generally considered bad practice.

Personally, I have a real hang up with scrolling in the middle of web pages. I already have a perfectly capable scroll facility on the right/bottom of my web pages if required.

The fixed layout breaks very quickly for people with poor eyesight who use larger fonts.

What exactly is the picture under the menu about? They only travel to local clients on small country roads perhaps?

Stuart

 

[JoyDivision]

The picture is my local meadows it just makes the page look better. I have tested the site with varius text sizes and it works fine. I know the browsing isn't really ideal. With regards to the heading tags I need to fix that with regards to the line break thing I didn't think it was worth making a completly new CSS class just to achieve a break. The break needs to be there even if CSS is turned off.

I agree with the fixed issue though, it does create problems it was just an experiment to do somthing different. I do like fixed width sites though as they look neater, the heigh scroll is rather annoying though I will admit that.

This why a lot of sites now place the links at the top which means the height dosn't need to fixed and it still looks good.

Next time I won't make the hieght fixed