Someone explain this to me

[IanSuth]

I thought they changed that this year to 40 years?

It is changing for those starting uni from this Sep but they will get a lower interest rate as well.

There will then by 3 differing sets of T&C's for student loans dependant upon when you took it out, and within that some of the interest rates are also dependant upon earnings so clear as mud basically. Soon there will be a business opening for student load repayment planning advisors (We had to take advice on how to structure accepting a payment for something so it only affected 1 child not 2 by holding it a week)

And the very first loans were academic year Sep 1990-July91 so they have already passed 30 yrs let alone 25 (which was the original term) but that year they were about £400 and I paid mine back at £6 a month years ago (all my mates who got them either bought guitars/amps or paid for motorcycle bits/insurance) as they were mickey mouse money then designed to make up for a freeze on grants and removal of the ability for students to claim housing benefit over the summer

 

[simon field]

No. Do you really think that is not true?

I have no idea! I don’t know anybody like that tbh. And I get about a fair bit.

Do you know them?

 

[japancool]

It is changing for those starting uni from this Sep but they will get a lower interest rate as well.

That's like fixing dykes by having small children stick their fingers in them.

 

[NickGrogan]

No. Do you really think that is not true?

Yes, I think you've made it up. Happy to look at any sources you can find.

 

[UKSBD]

I have no idea! I don’t know anybody like that tbh. And I get about a fair bit.

Do you know them?

A guy I know about 45, living in a small village, 4 miles from small town, 10 miles from larger town

Family lived in village for 30+ years, father now gone in to care, mother had to move, he is now living in village on his own.

Always had metal health issues but tended to do odd jobbing, building work, gardening, maintenance, etc. injured himself, struggles with manual work, mental health getting worse and can no longer work.

Even if he could work, his car broke down, insurance and mot due, to get car back on road would be £700 (car worth under £400 if it was MOT’d and back on the road) he hasn’t got a penny to get the car back on the road even if he wanted to.

His rent (£600) is paid by UC and he receives about £330 a month on top of that

He is currently trying to claim extra £350 a month due to limited capability, trying to obtain this is making his mental heath worse

Council tax is reduced but still costs him £80 a month

Heating/Energy is about £150 a month (no gas in village all electricity)

He has to have broadband and mobile or can’t claim UC which costs about £20 a month

His TV licence is about £13 a month

His Water rates are about £37 a month

He has a few things on credit about £20 a month

that leaves him currently living on about £30 a month, with not a penny of savings

Dread to think what will happen to him if he doesn't get assessed for the higher rate limited capability when energy prices go up

He can't even afford a bus fare to get to a foodbank as things are, if energy prices go up he will probably have to virtually switch everything off, get a space heater and live in one room and rely on people taking him food round

 

[MarkOnline]

A guy I know about 45, living in a small village, 4 miles from small town, 10 miles from larger town

Family lived in village for 30+ years, father now gone in to care, mother had to move, he is now living in village on his own.

Always had metal health issues but tended to do odd jobbing, building work, gardening, maintenance, etc. injured himself, struggles with manual work, mental health getting worse and can no longer work.

Even if he could work, his car broke down, insurance and mot due, to get car back on road would be £700 (car worth under £400 if it was MOT’d and back on the road) he hasn’t got a penny to get the car back on the road even if he wanted to.

His rent (£600) is paid by UC and he receives about £330 a month on top of that

He is currently trying to claim extra £350 a month due to limited capability, trying to obtain this is making his mental heath worse

Council tax is reduced but still costs him £80 a month

Heating/Energy is about £150 a month (no gas in village all electricity)

He has to have broadband and mobile or can’t claim UC which costs about £20 a month

His TV licence is about £13 a month

His Water rates are about £37 a month

He has a few things on credit about £20 a month

that leaves him currently living on about £30 a month, with not a penny of savings

Dread to think what will happen to him if he doesn't get assessed for the higher rate limited capability when energy prices go up

He can't even afford a bus fare to get to a foodbank as things are, if energy prices go up he will probably have to virtually switch everything off, get a space heater and live in one room and rely on people taking him food round

From what you have described he isnt an able bodied man and in the instance quoted he needs additional help/support.
From my own past I know many people who have absolutely nothing, they buy scratch cards because a £50 win will change their life for a few hours. The money will go on alcohol/drugs or more gambling, They may buy a few donuts for the sugar boost. Give them £400 to pay for heating and they will be in a stupor for the next few days. Not only do they own absolutely nothing even worse (if that is possible), is they have lost hope.
The system is broken and I havent got the slightest idea how it can be fixed, some parts of society dont want to be helped (they will take the money though) The system/society doesnt really want them, they can pat them on the head and donate a sweater when its cold and it gives a few social workers a job. Im sure my local council have a few well paid workers who wouldnt have a job without them, who knows.

 

[japancool]

If he has mental health issues, he should be applying for PIP.

 

[UKSBD]

From what you have described he isnt an able bodied man and in the instance quoted he needs additional help/support.
From my own past I know many people who have absolutely nothing, they buy scratch cards because a £50 win will change their life for a few hours. The money will go on alcohol/drugs or more gambling, They may buy a few donuts for the sugar boost. Give them £400 to pay for heating and they will be in a stupor for the next few days. Not only do they own absolutely nothing even worse (if that is possible), is they have lost hope.
The system is broken and I havent got the slightest idea how it can be fixed, some parts of society dont want to be helped (they will take the money though) The system/society doesnt really want them, they can pat them on the head and donate a sweater when its cold and it gives a few social workers a job. Im sure my local council have a few well paid workers who wouldnt have a job without them, who knows.

One problem is even when help is talked about you get do gooders kicking off

For instance give out food vouchers instead of cash and you get people saying that is wrong.

Provide low cost cheap housing, the dogooders will say it's not as good as the housing the other side of the street

Give children free school meal vouchers and they are stigmatized and traumatized

Open more food banks and opposition use it for point scoring

Everything is politicized and used for point scoring, governments can't provide temporary help for anything because they know once the temporary help stops opposition will use it for point scoring

Most important thing they can do to help people in the person I know and the people you describes situation isn't give them more money but just provide them with the essentials, be it with direct energy payments, direct food payments, direct clothing payments, whatever.

Too many will criticize that though

Much as I don't agree with Sunak, I think what he had been doing was about right

 

[Mr D]

External wall insulation (EWI) is fundamentally wrong. Insulation has to be primarily internal. For a passive house build, it has to be both and avoid all thermal bridging.

I live in a stone cottage with granite walls two feet thick. We took down all the plasterboard and lined the walls with Rockwool and then PU foam boards, mostly Kingspan. It is also important to insulate the floors and the internal walls. Ceilings should be insulated with thermal blankets and not double Rockwool. All heating and water pipes should be covered with thermal lagging.

Floors insulated (our dining area).

Walls double insulated.

Kitchen cooking area.

Again, double insulation.

And because of space constraints, double Cellotex.

So we went from this (and one sees the sum of all the sins hidden in old houses!) -

To this -

Almost there - about ten years ago.

The key is to do it room-by-room and get rid of everything. Whatever is there, from electrics to plumbing, from door lintels to chimneys, will be crap that just has to go! The results are cheaper and far better than putting totally ineffective toy cladding on the outside.

The total cost for the kitchen, without windows and fittings, was £3k. Today it would be about double that. Most other rooms were a few hundred per room - just plasterboard, battens, PU boards, electrics, rolls of Rockwool and plaster and paint and lots of Torx screws.

And before you ask - about three months for the kitchen-dining area and weekends only. And that was probably the hardest room to do. The living room was the most expensive because it included a stone fireplace from a quarry outside Harrogate, a fancy wooden floor and all sorts of fittings to convert it into a cinema with 7.1 sound from Genelec.

And that is the clue - when you decide to insulate a house, you get the chance to do all those other things that you wanted to do but would otherwise be too expensive/bothersome/time-consuming or whatever excuse you had for never getting round to do them.

Not a fan of cladding on the outside.
We got the internal wall insulation they pump in. Caused a bit of a drop in bills at the time.

We had a look at internal wall insulation about 8 years back, 28k for the main part of the house was the best quote.

 

[UKSBD]

If he has mental health issues, he should be applying for PIP.

He's trying, it makes him worse, he still wants to work, so wants the higher rate Limited Capability for Work (still only about an extra £350 a month though)

 

[Mr D]

I love the idea of your world, but we aren't there and people are going to die, avoidably, this winter unless something is done to prevent it.

People die every winter. Just some years people get the choice between food and heat rather than being able to pay for both food and heat. Many times over the decades the government of the day did little or nothing to help.
This time there's quite a bit for those as qualify. £150, £300, £650 etc. The £400 electric credit will make a difference over the coldest months - however what happens in just over a year's time when again it comes down to food or heat?
Do we again have government borrowing money / taxing people more in order to help again and again?
At what point do government stop?

 

[simon field]

I don’t dispute that there are sadly some people who are genuinely unable to improve their lot. But of the income statistics quoted above by @IanSuth (I think), a good number of those will be doing some form of cash work & keeping schtum!

Under the radar. Not measurable.

The cash economy is still bouncing along nicely ?

 

[NickGrogan]

A guy I know about 45, living in a small village, 4 miles from small town, 10 miles from larger town

Family lived in village for 30+ years, father now gone in to care, mother had to move, he is now living in village on his own.

Always had metal health issues but tended to do odd jobbing, building work, gardening, maintenance, etc. injured himself, struggles with manual work, mental health getting worse and can no longer work.

Even if he could work, his car broke down, insurance and mot due, to get car back on road would be £700 (car worth under £400 if it was MOT’d and back on the road) he hasn’t got a penny to get the car back on the road even if he wanted to.

His rent (£600) is paid by UC and he receives about £330 a month on top of that

He is currently trying to claim extra £350 a month due to limited capability, trying to obtain this is making his mental heath worse

Council tax is reduced but still costs him £80 a month

Heating/Energy is about £150 a month (no gas in village all electricity)

He has to have broadband and mobile or can’t claim UC which costs about £20 a month

His TV licence is about £13 a month

His Water rates are about £37 a month

He has a few things on credit about £20 a month

that leaves him currently living on about £30 a month, with not a penny of savings

Dread to think what will happen to him if he doesn't get assessed for the higher rate limited capability when energy prices go up

He can't even afford a bus fare to get to a foodbank as things are, if energy prices go up he will probably have to virtually switch everything off, get a space heater and live in one room and rely on people taking him food round

And he should get all the help he needs, but I think you'd agree his situation is exceptional.

The suggestion was that there are lots of people like this.

 

[UKSBD]

And he should get all the help he needs, but I think you'd agree his situation is exceptional.

The suggestion was that there are lots of people like this.

The exception and extreme at the moment, maybe not if he gets the additional allowance.

There are an awful lot of people in similar situation though, close to 1.7m in the no work requirements category now.

In normal times they are receiving a fair amount (about £650 a month on top of rent) if energy prices go up to £300 a month though it effects them far more than anyone on an average wage.

It's the people who slip through the net that are going to really suffer, the ones who can't realistically find work but aren't classed in the additional support category.

 

[Newchodge]

I have no idea! I don’t know anybody like that tbh. And I get about a fair bit.

Do you know them?

Yes. I volunteer at the local community centre and I know a large number of people like that.

 

[Newchodge]

If he has mental health issues, he should be applying for PIP.

Presumably you have applied for PIP? If he has mental health issues he is unlikely to be able to jump through the hoops.

 

[japancool]

Presumably you have applied for PIP? If he has mental health issues he is unlikely to be able to jump through the hoops.

Yes, I have applied for PIP.

PIP may have some barriers for those with learning difficulties or cannot speak English properly, but otherwise, it's mainly a form filling exercise. I believe there charities that will provide help for people who have difficulty filling the forms in.

 

[Newchodge]

People die every winter. Just some years people get the choice between food and heat rather than being able to pay for both food and heat. Many times over the decades the government of the day did little or nothing to help.
This time there's quite a bit for those as qualify. £150, £300, £650 etc. The £400 electric credit will make a difference over the coldest months - however what happens in just over a year's time when again it comes down to food or heat?
Do we again have government borrowing money / taxing people more in order to help again and again?
At what point do government stop?

When no-one is likely to die because of their policies.

 

[UKSBD]

When no-one is likely to die because of their policies.

The problem is Labours policies appear to be even worse at the moment. (maybe that isn't fair as we don't really know them)

The Left of the party (ones who I've tended to agree with most) appear to be on this blindfold campaign of increasing wages for those on low/mid income which will have a devastating effect on the ones below them.

Increasing minimum wage to £15, paying 10% wage increases will lead to the deaths of the people in my example.

 

[Newchodge]

The problem is Labours policies appear to be even worse at the moment. (maybe that isn't fair as we don't really know them)

The Left of the party (ones who I've tended to agree with most) appear to be on this blindfold campaign of increasing wages for those on low/mid income which will have a devastating effect on the ones below them.

Increasing minimum wage to £15, paying 10% wage increases will lead to the deaths of the people in my example.

I don't see the Labour party, in its current format, achieving anything.

 

[UKSBD]

I don't see the Labour party, in its current format, achieving anything.

I'm at a total loss at the moment, if there was a General Election tomorrow I don't know what I would do - probably spoil it.

You might not like Sunak, may think he's one of the reasons for the mess we are in, but some of the support measures he put in were good in my opinion.

 

[Newchodge]

I'm at a total loss at the moment, if there was a General Election tomorrow I don't know what I would do - probably spoil it.

You might not like Sunak, may think he's one of the reasons for the mess we are in, but some of the support measures he put in were good in my opinion.

I have voted Green in any election since the 2019 GE. I cannot in all conscience vote for the other 3 options on the local ballot paper.

I dislike Sunak because he enabled Johnson and allowed his corruption. Some of the support measures he put in were very good indeed.

 

[The Byre]

Some of the support measures he put in were very good indeed.

Do you mean like issuing record amounts of index-linked government bonds so that the interest payments alone came to £70bn p.a. (and rising!) and then using that currency to helicopter money directly into the economy, thereby creating about 9% additional RPI inflation?

Externally caused inflation has been about 2%. The rest was money printing. Here, in the Eurozone and the US - almost everywhere - money printing and pumping those funds directly into the various national economies was almost every government's 'Get out of Jail Free' card.

The economic illness was created by governments with the lock-downs. The cure was helicopter money based upon the idiotic theories of Modern Monetary Theory from Prof. Schwaab and the rest of the Davos crowd of luvvies. Theories so misguided that they even manage to defy the laws of physics!

And Sunak bought into that nonsense - a cure far more deadly than the illness!

 

[The Byre]

We had a look at internal wall insulation about 8 years back, 28k for the main part of the house was the best quote.

It's a simple DIY job. See the pics I posted on page one!

 

[simon field]

I'm at a total loss at the moment, if there was a General Election tomorrow I don't know what I would do - probably spoil it.

You might not like Sunak, may think he's one of the reasons for the mess we are in, but some of the support measures he put in were good in my opinion.

He threw money (which wasn’t his to throw!) at people to sit and do nothing, in a blind panic and fumbled attempt to control something that was totally beyond his control.

Loans (gifts) were shelled out with a ridiculously low bar, fraud on an industrial scale was ignored.

What’s good about that?

 

[japancool]

And yet... what were the alternatives?

Either no lockdown and allow massive numbers of casualties.

Or allow massive job losses with ensuing huge numbers of businesses going bust, defaults on loans and mortgages, with ensuing runs on banks.

 

[The Byre]

Either no lockdown and allow massive numbers of casualties.

Like Sweden with a 0.19% death rate or Switzerland with a 0.16% death rate? (UK 0.27%)

Or allow massive job losses with ensuing huge numbers of businesses going bust, defaults on loans and mortgages, with ensuing runs on banks.

That is going to happen anyway thanks to the inflation he caused! And it is inflation that the BoE cannot hope to control because if it tried to raise interest rates to ahead of inflation, it would bankrupt the government and all those businesses that are up to their ears in debt!

Switzerland did not print money - no government bonds and no QE - and inflation roared ahead from a baseline of 2.1% to the dizzy heights of 3.4% thanks to high energy costs.

Sunak reminded me of a two-year-old trying to drive a truck!

 

[japancool]

Like Sweden with a 0.19% death rate or Switzerland with a 0.16% death rate? (UK 0.27%)

Well, the UK public is fatter and unhealthier than either of those countries. And an 0.27% death rate still equates to tens of thousands of excess deaths. And in the first wave, the death rate was around 1%, and hospitalisation rate 3.5%.

That is going to happen anyway thanks to the inflation he caused! And it is inflation that the BoE cannot hope to control because if it tried to raise interest rates to ahead of inflation, it would bankrupt the government and all those businesses that are up to their ears in debt!

So damned one way, and damned the other.

 

[simon field]

And yet... what were the alternatives?

1) To refrain from believing that a virus can be controlled with money!

2) To be honest with people and admit ‘I don’t know what I’m doing’.

 

[japancool]

1) To refrain from believing that a virus can be controlled with money!

Well, actually, it seems like it can, if the money is spent on vaccination.

 

[DazRave]

Well, the UK public is fatter and unhealthier than either of those countries. And an 0.27% death rate still equates to tens of thousands of excess deaths. And in the first wave, the death rate was around 1%, and hospitalisation rate 3.5%.

Not to mention the missed and even more delayed appointments for other unrelated illnesses while the wards were all turned into covid-specific ones. But, this will then just trigger someone about the data around who died of covid and who didn't.

 

[NickGrogan]

When no-one is likely to die because of their policies.

All government policies result in deaths. You can't stop deaths. Lets look at energy.

Go green, save the planet. Prices rise, and people die in the short term but as not as many in the long term, hopefully.

But going green reduces climate change, which means colder winters, which means more people die. Cold kills more than heat.

Don't go green, burn more coal, cheaper power, and people don't die in the short term. More climate change means milder winters, means fewer deaths in winter and fewer deaths in the UK over the year. Global deaths may increase in the long term.

Either policy creates death.

You vote Green, which means you're voting to save the planet and reduce climate change.

Your vote will result in more winter deaths. The ones that you're now unhappy about.

 

[NickGrogan]

There are an awful lot of people in similar situation though, close to 1.7m in the no work requirements category now.

As always the devil is in the detail. 1.7 million people unable to work seems like a lot, far more than you'd expect.

But who is in the no work requirements category?

"If you’re self-employed, you’ll be in the ‘no work-related activity group’ if either:

• the 'minimum income floor' applies to you
• you earn above the minimum income floor

Check how the minimum income floor works.

If you’re not self-employed, you’ll be in the ‘no work-related activity group’ if you earn above your ‘earnings threshold’. This is the weekly hours you’re expected to work multiplied by your minimum wage.

If your earnings vary they’re calculated as an average of the past 3 months."

Self employed people should be able to increase their earnings.

and

"You're in full-time education
In term time and most holidays you'll be in the ‘no work-related requirements group’ if you’re either:

at university or college and you get a student loan, grant or bursary
aged 21 or under and at school or college with no support from your parents"

Students should be able to increase their earnings.

So the no work category is made up of a lot of people who are working and a lot of people who are studying. Now 1.7 million makes more sense.

If you add in the people more than 28 weeks pregnant, or with children under 1 year (around 700,000 children born each year) and then 1.7 million seems a bit low.

But very few of these people are looking for work, and the vast majority will be working now or in the future.

 

[IanSuth]

If you add in the people more than 28 weeks pregnant, or with children under 1 year (around 700,000 children born each year) and then 1.7 million seems a bit low.

Actually it is those over 28 weeks pregnant and out of work not all of those over 28 weeks pregnant as if they are employed they are still employed by their employer officially up until and if they make a decision not to return to work after mat leave.

And I don't think students on full time courses count anymore either (as otherwise they could claim UC in the summer holidays like they used to with unemployment benefit)


But otherwise i get your idea

Found the link i was looking for

Who are “economically inactive” people, and could they join the work force? – Full Fact

Economically inactive people don’t have a job, and they aren’t classed as unemployed because they’re not looking for or able to start a new job.

fullfact.org

it is from early 2020 when Priti Useless was saying the economically inactive could fill the labour force gaps as there where 8.5million of them between 16 & 65

 

[simon field]

And yet... what were the alternatives?

To refrain from believing that a virus can be controlled with money

Well, actually, it seems like it can, if the money is spent on vaccination.

Since vaccination, more people have caught it than ever!

 

[alan1302]

To refrain from believing that a virus can be controlled with money

Since vaccination, more people have caught it than ever!

And since vaccination less people have had bad effects from getting it...which is the point of the vaccination. So the vaccination is doing what it is meant to do.

 

[simon field]

And since vaccination less people have had bad effects from getting it...which is the point of the vaccination. So the vaccination is doing what it is meant to do.

Erm. The virus had already done its work. How many jabs???

 

[japancool]

Since vaccination, more people have caught it than ever!

And far fewer have fallen seriously ill or died.

 

[simon field]

And far fewer have fallen seriously ill or died.

The vulnerable minority had mostly either fallen seriously ill or died already.

 

[japancool]

The vulnerable minority had mostly either fallen seriously ill or died already.

No, many of them are still alive. Me, for example.