Solicitors' bills (2)

[bumperman]

I had some solicitors terminate an old lease on a small lock-up shop owned by us (not being nasty-tenant wanted out of lease to retire). My contact at the solicitors was a partner. I was quoted 4-6 hrs @ £180/hr = £840-1260 in writing with the promise of "I will advise you of any unforeseen or extra work". Job was billed "Termination of Lease" October 2009 @ £918 + vat and I settled in full by cheque.
However in February 2010 I received a 2nd bill "Termination of Lease" for £780. I thought this bill must be a mistake, naturally I queried this supplementary bill as I had not been informed of any extra work. Meanwhile the firms credit control dept were threatening legal action over the 2nd invoice remaining unpaid(even though it was under query with one of their partners). Partner called off the credit control dept & in October 2010 offered a 50% reduction(down to £390), I said I still wasn't very happy but I'd think about it, could he do better?
In the meantime I had the solicitors prepare a lease for a new tenant which was quoted @ £1500, billed @2200 which I settled after discussion.
My contact (the partner) suddenly left the firm without notice to me at the end of October 2010. There has been almost no contact in the meantime. I don't know whether they have sent me all the paperwork for the lease etc. or whether anything else is outstanding.
This week I returned home from hospital to find a county court claim form for the full £780 + vat + £103 interest + court fee £80 + solicitors fee £80 + total £1179.
I intend to defend the county court action as (a) I don't believe I owe them any money and (b) I resent the thuggish way they are treating an existing client. The relationship seemed to go wrong soon after the departure of the partner, and they have not bothered to look into the problem, preferring to adopt a hard line credit control policy.
Is this normal behaviour for solicitors?
What options are open to me?

thanks

bumperman

 

[vvaannmmaann]

Arrange a meeting to try and resolve the problem - before going down the potentially expensive legal route.

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

I'd give the solicitors a call and see if you can resolve the issue - it could be a genuine mistake.

Few professionals really want to drag a client through the court system but if they do don't be intimidated Small claims court is very informal. If you've never been before its nothing like you see on TV just you the judge and the other party and the judge will listen to both sides, discuss it and make a decision based on that.

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

Do make sure you ask for and use the solicitors internal complaints procedure first too.

 

[deniser]

No this is not normal behaviour for solicitors.

Have a read of this.

http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/documents/downloads/Profethics_CostsInfo.pdf

You have to be given an estimate of costs and told when that estimate is exceeded.

If you have not then I do not think you usually have to pay it.

Your original client care letter should set out the formal complaints procedure. Use it but make sure everything is in writing. If the matter is not resolved then you can take it up with the Office of Supervision of Solicitors or whatever it's called these days.

 

Its so important to find an honest solicitor.

I heard a rumor of one in Outer Mongolia.

Earl

 

[jeffsw6]

Google 'Costs Lawyer' and find yourself a costs draftsman, local to your home, who is qualified as a 'Costs Lawyer' (a fully qualified member of the Association of Costs Lawyers) - these are legal costs specialists who generally know more than solicitors about legal costs but are not actually solicitors.

Firstly ask whether or not they have rights of audience and can take instructions directly from a member of the public. Secondly, ask whether or not they take on work on a conditional fee basis. If the answer to both of these is affirmative, explain your situation and then see if they can represent / advise you.

There are procedures to be followed and a competent costs lawyer should be able to help you out of this situation. The problem is often that solicitors don't fully understand costs law even in respect of their own bills and do stupid things like issuing against their own clients, without being sure that they are on strong ground.

The association (Assoc of Costs Lawyers) used to have a list of members on their website and so you should be able to find a contact through them.

 

[Stephen Berry]

honest solicitor.

Oxymoron ?

 

Oxymoron ?

Nope I am a British moron.:|

Earl

 

[jeffsw6]

Useful information for clients enquiring about how to challenge their solicitor's bill is available on the government's own website. Look up Ministry of Justice and Senior Courts Costs Office site and follow the links from there

 

[Rumpole56]

Not sure if this procedure is still available as it is many years since I did any practical lawyering, but it used to be possible to have any solicitors' bill - not just those in respect of litigation - subjected to a process called "Taxation" (of Costs) through the County Court. This is basically an informal hearing with both parties attending before a District Judge in Chambers, whereby the solicitors have to justify their charges on an item by item basis. It used to be fairly easy to set the process in motion by simply informing the solicitors that you require their bill to be 'taxed'. This would perhaps be better than simply contesting the County Court action they have initiated. I don't have time to research it at the moment, but perhaps the Ministry of Justice link above has relevant information. Alternatively, post a question in the Legal Forum and one of the solicitors there will probably know.

Complaints to the Law Society and/or Solicitors' Regulatory Authority may well result in a decision in favour of the solicitors. unless they are very obviously in the wrong. Both organizations are basically solicitors 'policing' themselves.

If you feel strongly that they have treated you unfairly, you could always post the name of the firm on the 'Solicitors from Hell' website.

 

[Christine Hough]

Arrange a meeting to try and resolve the problem - before going down the potentially expensive legal route.

I don't think this is viable if county court proceedings have already been started by them.

 

[deniser]

Not sure if this procedure is still available as it is many years since I did any practical lawyering, but it used to be possible to have any solicitors' bill - not just those in respect of litigation - subjected to a process called "Taxation" (of Costs) through the County Court. This is basically an informal hearing with both parties attending before a District Judge in Chambers, whereby the solicitors have to justify their charges on an item by item basis. It used to be fairly easy to set the process in motion by simply informing the solicitors that you require their bill to be 'taxed'. This would perhaps be better than simply contesting the County Court action they have initiated. I don't have time to research it at the moment, but perhaps the Ministry of Justice link above has relevant information. Alternatively, post a question in the Legal Forum and one of the solicitors there will probably know.

Complaints to the Law Society and/or Solicitors' Regulatory Authority may well result in a decision in favour of the solicitors. unless they are very obviously in the wrong. Both organizations are basically solicitors 'policing' themselves.

If you feel strongly that they have treated you unfairly, you could always post the name of the firm on the 'Solicitors from Hell' website.

If this goes to court, the court can order the bill to be taxed as well.
But it doesn't need to get that far. If you point out that you were not told of the additional costs and point to the relevant provisions then they will usually write the extra off.

 

[jeffsw6]

The process is no longer called 'taxation' but detailed assessment. The matter is already in the legal arena as proceedings have been issued and bumperman has to do something as if he does nothing, judgement will be entered against him 'in default'.

Unfortunately, it's all a bit late in as much as there are time constraints for requesting what used to be known as a remuneration certificate. When a solicitor delivers a bill to his own client he is obliged to comply with certain technical requirements, which include explanation of how to dispute the bill.

The friendly Partner (who disappeared) in the firm of solicitors may have failed to fulfil the legal requirements and there could be a technical remedy that remains open to Bumperman but he really does need expert advice, which is best obtained from a Costs Lawyer, who can quickly look at the papers and identify any deficiences. Bumperman can then file a Defence to the claim or a counterclaim, maybe alleging negligence on the part of the solicitor, if Bumperman doesn't know whether or not the solicitor did all that he should have done.

It could be quite an interesting can of worms that Bumperman could open up. Posting on the solicitors from hell site might make the offended feel better but you have to pay the site owner for the privilege!

 

[bumperman]

Great response/advice, thanks everyone so far!

I responded to the county court claim saying I would defend the action.

Last week I 'phoned the solicitors & spoke to an earlier contact/partner who had introduced me to this firm originally. I explained what his firm had done & how badly they were treating me, he said he would look in to it saying "I won't mess you about".
A week later no news so I sent him a chaser along the lines of my original post on UKBF. Still no response.

Today I get an "Without Prejudice" email from their credit controller offering to settle at the 50% amount + VAT in full & final settlement to discontinue the claim.

*No apology.
*No answers about old outstanding matters I reminded them about.
*No contact from earlier contact/partner("I won't mess you about").

So again I ask the question(sorry), is this normal behaviour for solicitors?

thanks again
bumperman

 

Great response/advice, thanks everyone so far!

I responded to the county court claim saying I would defend the action.

Last week I 'phoned the solicitors & spoke to an earlier contact/partner who had introduced me to this firm originally. I explained what his firm had done & how badly they were treating me, he said he would look in to it saying "I won't mess you about".
A week later no news so I sent him a chaser along the lines of my original post on UKBF. Still no response.

Today I get an "Without Prejudice" email from their credit controller offering to settle at the 50% amount + VAT in full & final settlement to discontinue the claim.

*No apology.
*No answers about old outstanding matters I reminded them about.
*No contact from earlier contact/partner("I won't mess you about").

So again I ask the question(sorry), is this normal behaviour for solicitors?

thanks again
bumperman

No they are usually a lot worse than that.

You must have found a soft one?:|

There greed and arrogance knows no bounds.IMHO

Earl