Small Parcels getting mislaid - any ideas?

[deniser]

We're having quite a few problems with small parcels (large letter size) getting lost/delayed/misrouted.

We send almost only parcels so only occasionally a large letter but they have to go into a different sack for OBA. There might only be one or two in the sack and quite often they get lost because they don't empty the sack properly and get left in the bottom. It's happened quite often that we have found other companies' small parcels left in the bottom of sacks that we receive from the RM so it seems to be a wider problem.

To counteract this, we started putting the large letters into smaller bags of our own and and so that there is no confusion on collection between RM and the courier companies we put them into see-through bags so one could see what is inside so they don;t pick up the wrong bags.

On at least two occasions recently, the courier/royalmail has delivered the whole bag to one recipient whose name and address were visible through the bag even though there were more than one parcel inside! This has happened even though the courier requires parcels to fit inside its own envelope.

Does anyone have a solution to this problem other than putting the large letters in the post box?

 

[Jeff FV]

We often send out (through OBA) sacks of parcels nad sacks of large letters and, like you, I do often worry that when we only have one or two large letters going out in a sack they might get lost.

What I do is I always put the paperwork in the large letters sack (and put a "circled P" on the sack's tag to indicate that the paperwork is in that sack.) Not sure if it works, but I hope it encourages them to empty the sack properly to get to the paperwork.

To be fair, we send lots via Royal Mail OBA and not many go missing.

 

[JPMiddleton]

We send 80% of our UK mail as large letters, and there is typically one or two every month that have been delayed. Parcels? Never delayed and never lost.

My concern (as above) has always been if only a few are in a mailing sack they are easy to lose track of, and we always put the paperwork in the LL sack too to ensure someone is always likely to open it first.

But yes, LLs do appear to be more of a problem.

 

[bharris]

Like above we often find old letters in the bottom of the sacks. If you are only sending a few large letters can you use the old RM zip bags, don't know if they are still available (remember seeing red and green ones). We normally put any large letters on top of the parcels in the same sacks or if there is only 1 we had it over to the collection driver..

 

[SamStones]

We don't send many large letters , but those we do have just go in with the parcels. That's what they asked us to do.

Have you tried larger envelopes? Or card / padded envelopes so they're physically bigger / harder.

I appreciate its a matter of cost but may help...

 

[deniser]

Like above we often find old letters in the bottom of the sacks. If you are only sending a few large letters can you use the old RM zip bags, don't know if they are still available (remember seeing red and green ones). We normally put any large letters on top of the parcels in the same sacks or if there is only 1 we had it over to the collection driver..

Are the zip bags not just for letters though? We're not allowed to put the LLs in with the parcels unfortunately and this is what is creating the problem to some extent. And we can't hand them over separately because they need a tag.

The depot manager has suggested tying the bag really near the bottom of the sack making it more obvious that there is something very small inside so we will give that a go.

We will also try putting the paperwork into the bag - this is a good suggestion, thank you.

 

[deniser]

Have you tried larger envelopes? Or card / padded envelopes so they're physically bigger / harder.

I appreciate its a matter of cost but may help...

It's a good idea but we can't really go any bigger without it become a parcel rather than a large letter - and the postal price is quite a big difference.

 

[Paul Norman]

Interesting. I don't have any large letters, but do see the point. I have yet to lose a parcel through the Royal Mail in several years. Couriers, of course, cannot match the quality, albeit it for larger parcels they are much, much cheaper.

I do wonder about the sacks, though, when I see them in the post office.

 

[Dan Eales]

Depending on your large letter yield, you may be able to get the grey, plastic trays from RM. We tried getting some of them a while back, but apparently the amount we were sending meant that we weren't eligible for them. But using those trays, it would be next to impossible for even RM to miss something. The only downside to the trays however is that the trays are open topped, so it's plausible that one may fall out in transit, etc.

 

[bharris]

The trays would be a good idea. A couple of months ago RM delivered 50 trays instead of sacks. The postman wasn't very impressed when i told him i didn't want them after he had spent ages stacking them up at our door.He had to carry them around all day. If you can get them don't order to many, they take up quite a lot of room, a bit like the old milk bottle trays.

 

[japancool]

Couriers, of course, cannot match the quality, albeit it for larger parcels they are much, much cheaper.

Depends on the courier. We use premium couriers like DHL, and they will call the customer if there is no answer at the door, and will take re-delivery instructions from the recipient by phone or web, plus deliver on Saturdays. They're like Frosties.

The last three items we sent through RM (2 large letters, one parcel) were all lost. I don't see this "quality".

 

[Dan Eales]

One of the issues with couriers that I am seeing with companies such as XDP, Yodel and APC is that they will outsource a lot of the parcel transporting process. So they will have self employed drivers to pick up from businesses who will blatantly mistreat packages, these items then go off to the central UK depots wherever these may be for each company respectively, and then they are passed onto local delivery firms rather than being delivered by that couriers own drivers.

And the difference here is that if something goes wrong with Royal Mail, they are 100% held accountable. If a problem occurs with one of the couriers as mentioned above, it can be so hard to make progress because they have to go further down the chain to investigate and if it happened outside of their network it can be hard to push a claim through at all. And often the case is that they cannot even explain what happened, where the item is, why it was not delivered, etc.

It's almost like there's no respect for the packages and the position that drivers have I suppose. There is a big shortage of drivers at the moment in the UK, giving the minority of bad courier drivers power to be crap at their job and not be punished. Not being associated with the company itself means that there isn't really accountability. But if someone in the Royal Mail screws up, presumably their ass is going to be called into an office.

 

[japancool]

One of the issues with couriers that I am seeing with companies such as XDP, Yodel and APC is that they will outsource a lot of the parcel transporting process. So they will have self employed drivers to pick up from businesses who will blatantly mistreat packages, these items then go off to the central UK depots wherever these may be for each company respectively, and then they are passed onto local delivery firms rather than being delivered by that couriers own drivers.

And the difference here is that if something goes wrong with Royal Mail, they are 100% held accountable. If a problem occurs with one of the couriers as mentioned above, it can be so hard to make progress because they have to go further down the chain to investigate and if it happened outside of their network it can be hard to push a claim through at all. And often the case is that they cannot even explain what happened, where the item is, why it was not delivered, etc.

It's almost like there's no respect for the packages and the position that drivers have I suppose. There is a big shortage of drivers at the moment in the UK, giving the minority of bad courier drivers power to be crap at their job and not be punished. Not being associated with the company itself means that there isn't really accountability. But if someone in the Royal Mail screws up, presumably their ass is going to be called into an office.

I've had 3 incidents with Hermes. In all of them, I've been refunded for the item value and the delivery costs.

But if posted with RM via a post box using stamps (which we do, as we send so few of them), there is no effective proof of postage and therefore no method of claiming.

 

[Dan Eales]

I've had 3 incidents with Hermes. In all of them, I've been refunded for the item value and the delivery costs.

But if posted with RM via a post box using stamps (which we do, as we send so few of them), there is no effective proof of postage and therefore no method of claiming.

Hermes I would say is a different beast entirely. They have a fairly large network and I would assume that use their own depots and drivers a lot of the time.

In terms of RM, there isn't really a way of getting tracking as you rightly said unless you go to a post office or you have enough for a collection which you said that you don't.

There is something that you will all no doubt have heard about already, it's definitely been gaining momentum. The new Royal Mail 2D barcodes which are coming soon. We, as a company, have been informed that by spring next year we are required to display a new type of barcode on our labels. This isn't mandatory, however we will be charged more if we have no adopted the new 2D barcode system by next year. I am unsure how a lot of online retailers will be able to integrated with this. We personally use Volo Commerce and there is the obvious alternative of Net Dispatch. But this new type of barcode will be applied to all RM mail as of spring next year and Royal Mail are planning to use this new barcode as a form of tracking. So, in theory, the concept of untracked packages going out will soon be a thing of the past.

 

[japancool]

Hermes I would say is a different beast entirely. They have a fairly large network and I would assume that use their own depots and drivers a lot of the time.

No, they have the same model as Yodel - self employed drivers using private vehicles. They have their own depots though, I think.

 

[roydmoorian]

Hermes are the ones who round here turn up in Tracky Bottoms with the window cleaning gear on the roof-rack (probably with doubtful GIT insurance).

The correct term used for them is "Lifestyle Courier".

 

[Dan Eales]

That's really interesting. I would say in that case then that Hermes do what a fair amount of others couriers do not do, concentrate on keeping business customers happy.

I have never had a an easy claims process nor have I had experience that would leave me recommending a courier after contacting them. It all depends on how a courier is run and the amount of responsibility they are willing to take. Frankly, Hermes are sounding good and we may have to look into them as a courier internally

 

[roydmoorian]

It's a bit like using the cost quoted by a back-bedroom SEO teenage "Expert" as a benchmark for a professional service

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CCwQFjACahUKEwifhp_G9N_HAhVE1xoKHSrxD84&url=http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2878481/Internet-gift-not-arrived-Pity-drivers-paid-just-45p-deliver-no-sick-pay-pension-holiday-sacked-moment-s-notice.html&usg=AFQjCNEIvVHuqmYWkReej-lOEA7ODurayw&sig2=H7FirryjKg7rOiJwkTNHzA

 

[Dan Eales]

I guess that the wage versus cost thing is always going to be an issue. The British consumer wants cheap. But the British consumer also moans when people aren't paid enough and also when the quality of the product or service isn't up to scratch. We can't have it all.

I'll probably catch some hate for this, but I would say that lifestyle couriers are one of many unskilled jobs in the UK that are saturated. Companies can get away with offering a bad wage because there will always be someone willing to take it. It's unfortunately the same case with elderly care personnel. I'm not going to go down the route of arguing the toss on immigration, politics, etc. There are driver jobs in this country. A massive amount of them in fact as there is currently LGV and HGV driver shortages, but these jobs are of course more skilled jobs. Admittedly that require money to get to because of more expensive licensing. But there is help and grants available to help get people into driving jobs. But it seems as though it's the age old problem of workers being bothered to.

I think I possibly have a rather biased view of employment. I come from a job centre background, I was unemployed for a couple of years in my early twenties. And you would not believe some of the things I've heard in my local job centre. People turning down good jobs claiming that minimum wage wasn't enough but didn't have any skills to back up a higher wage and weren't willing to try to get those skills through hard work. I myself have had to drag myself through two apprenticeships to get to where I am today in an online retailer, which is two years of a full time job at 40 hours plus per week as well as completing coursework alongside that. And obviously the first year apprenticeship is £2.something per hour. It's not easy by any stretch of the imagination, but it is doable. And after that, after learning a fairly complex sales and inventory management system as well as all the other stuff that comes from working in an online retailer, I still only earn the national minimum wage.

 

[japancool]

Dan,

I may have given you the wrong impression of Hermes. While it's true that I've not had huge problems with getting refunds, that's only been after I've got through to their phone support. Their web chat support is totally, and utterly useless.

In one case, our collection driver hadn't turned up the day before, so I had a stack of parcels to send. I wasn't sure he was going to turn up the next day, so I spoke to their web chat support to try to get them to contact him to make sure he was going to turn up. She insisted he was, and told me they couldn't contact him because the drivers were self-employed and they didn't have their phone numbers. After pressing her, she then said "well, they're not obliged to give us their phone numbers". So I told her to at least look to see they had the guy's number, and she said she couldn't look. So I then told her to send a message to his hand held terminal. Again, "We can't do that".

I got rather rude, and she gave me the phone number (which I previously had, but lost).

I called them, and after explaining that the courier hadn't turned up the day before, and that the tracking claimed a parcel that hadn't been picked up was out for delivery, the guy on the pone offered to call him to make sure he came, which he did, but got no response, so said that he would send a message to the driver's terminal. Maybe this guy was an exception, but he did what I had wanted him to do without me asking him to.

Sure enough, the driver did turn up, and told me he didn't have a pickup scheduled for us today or yesterday, but came because he'd got the message.

Your mileage may vary. It helps to have a regular driver on the route and get to know them, as they'll sometimes give you their number. Our previous courier was happy to come and collect even if we'd forgotten to book a collection that day and had a load of parcels to go (it's to their benefit, so there's no reasn wh they wouldn't).

 

[Paul Norman]

Depends on the courier. We use premium couriers like DHL, and they will call the customer if there is no answer at the door, and will take re-delivery instructions from the recipient by phone or web, plus deliver on Saturdays. They're like Frosties.

The last three items we sent through RM (2 large letters, one parcel) were all lost. I don't see this "quality".

We use a combo of FedEx, DPD and DHL. I find all three provide a good level of service, but I yet to have the Post office lose a parcel. Unless you send it unsigned for, of course.

Whichever service you choose, avoid the cheapos. They really do lose a LOT of parcels. And reading through posts here, it would appear my good experience of the post office may not be universally enjoyed.