Should I get paid for my holiday

[batman001]

Hi I browsed in internet but couldn't find a right answer. My situation: Working in a chip shop 4months and now they closing for wintrer time. In this case I will be looking for another job. My question is should my boss pay for me some holiday money? Or it's up to him. I didn't sign any contract before I started to work for him.

 

[Scalloway]

You are legally entitled to 28 days holiday if you work a full year. You can use this to calculate what you are due.

https://www.gov.uk/calculate-your-holiday-entitlement

 

[batman001]

I thought the same but my mate was working with me alsmost 3 months and when he finished his work at chippy boss said to him he won't get any holiday money because it's a chip shop policy. So I am just wondering or my boss is allowed to decide he pays for holiday or no. Or in any place your are working you must get paid for your holiday by law

 

[fairdealworld]

So I am just wondering or my boss is allowed to decide he pays for holiday or no. Or in any place your are working you must get paid for your holiday by law

Yes in any place you are working you must get paid for holiday by law. Someone who has only worked for 3 months would not have built up as much holiday entitlement as someone who has worked for 6 months or 12 months but they are still entitled to some paid holiday. Someone who only works part-time will not have built up as much holiday entitlement as someone who works full time but they are still entitled to some paid holiday.

Your mate was robbed! Bosses can't have 'policies' about not giving the basic holiday allowance, it is the law and that's that.

Bosses can insist that if the business is closed on Bank Holidays that day off counts as part of your paid holiday. Bosses can also give their workers extra holiday if they wish - for example my shop is not open on Bank Holidays but staff are paid for that day and it does not come out of their holiday entitlement, that is, if someone works full time in my shop they are entitled - by law - to 28 days paid holiday per year plus - by the shop policy - to paid Bank Holidays.

Please, please tell me that the Chip Shop has been paying you at least the minimum wage demanded by law?

 

[batman001]

Yes I having a bit more than a minimal wage but I want to be ready when I will be leaving and my boss will tell me I am not geting any money for my holiday. Thank you so much for your help. Also from begining I was thinking I am working in that place ilegaly because they never even ask my Natianal insurance number etc. Or may payslip is just a paper note. But they pay my wage in to my bank account and they said they will give my a p45 when I will be leaving so I think everything is legal

 

[sebsuma]

batman001 your mate should have argued, imagine if I employed someone and one of my policy's was compulsory overtime?

 

[TotallySport]

you can ring ACAS, and they should be able to provide more official documents you can present to your employer when you do so.

 

[Merchant UK]

Your entitled to 9.33 days holiday pay for working the 4 months, but remember as you've been there less than a year he could get rid of you for any reason he wants in the first year so be careful how you go about this.

The holiday i've worked out is if you've been there full time, working full days, if you only work part time and do shifts of 4 or 5 hours a day then you will need to work out your holidays on an hourly basis as opposed to a full day so if you only work 4 hours a day instead of 8 then your holiday entitlement would work out a lot less.

This kind of job being seasonal will probably mean you may not be back after the winter period, usually firms like this get swamped with people asking for jobs, that they really have a good choice to pick from when they start up again. Don't hold your hopes up and start looking for another job

 

[Anonymouse72]

Also from begining I was thinking I am working in that place ilegaly because they never even ask my Natianal insurance number etc. Or may payslip is just a paper note. But they pay my wage in to my bank account and they said they will give my a p45 when I will be leaving so I think everything is legal

i don't understand how your employer can be reporting your wages to HMRC under the new RTI rules without your NI No. ? :| you have an NI no. but he's never asked for it?

if he's already doing one thing wrong(your holidays), i wouldn't have much trust in the fact that he's doing everything else by the book i'm afraid.

 

[Newchodge]

I thought the same but my mate was working with me alsmost 3 months and when he finished his work at chippy boss said to him he won't get any holiday money because it's a chip shop policy. So I am just wondering or my boss is allowed to decide he pays for holiday or no. Or in any place your are working you must get paid for your holiday by law

Your mate can still take action to get his holiday pay if he left less than 3 months ago. He does this by making an application to the employment tribunal.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

By Law he must give you a proper payslip which shows all deductions

Did you give hime your P45 from your last employer, and he would have got your NI number from that, if not then I agree it does not look like he has been paying NI and you could be liable for paying any moneys owed to HMRC which could add up after 6 months as it comes out of your wages as well as the employers part

 

[StevensOnln1]

How could the employee be liable for unpaid tax and NI? If the employer has failed to operate PAYE correctly then HMRC will come after them for the unpaid tax and NI, not the employee.

 

[TotallySport]

How could the employee be liable for unpaid tax and NI? If the employer has failed to operate PAYE correctly then HMRC will come after them for the unpaid tax and NI, not the employee.

I don't know about NI, but according to the HMRC its the employees responsibility to make sure their PAYE taxes are being paid.

 

[StevensOnln1]

Where do HMRC say that? My understanding is that it is the employer's responsibility to operate PAYE correctly and that the amount paid to the employee is always treated as being net of deductions, which are the employer's responsibility to pay to HMRC.

 

[Anonymouse72]

these circumstances were mentioned in another thread recently, this post seems pretty clear ?

 

[TotallySport]

Where do HMRC say that? My understanding is that it is the employer's responsibility to operate PAYE correctly and that the amount paid to the employee is always treated as being net of deductions, which are the employer's responsibility to pay to HMRC.

So if the employee knows its cash in hand, and knows the employer isn't going to pay any tax or national insurance, who's fault is it?

Your responsible for your own taxes.

 

[StevensOnln1]

The employer would be breaking the law by failing to operate PAYE, unless all of their employees earned less than £109 per week and didn't have another job. Upon discovering this, HMRC would make a demand to the employer for the tax and NI which they failed hand over.

The employee cannot force their employer to operate PAYE and pay the deductions over, if the employer chooses to break the law.

 

[TotallySport]

The employer would be breaking the law by failing to operate PAYE, unless all of their employees earned less than £109 per week and didn't have another job. Upon discovering this, HMRC would make a demand to the employer for the tax and NI which they failed hand over.

The employee cannot force their employer to operate PAYE and pay the deductions over, if the employer chooses to break the law.

They can, if the employee knows, simply don't work for them, its easy enough to find out if your taxes are being paid.

 

[StevensOnln1]

So you're suggesting people should quit their job and sign on rather than work for an employer who breaks the law? I doubt you'd get many takers for that.

 

[TotallySport]

So you're suggesting people should quit their job and sign on rather than work for an employer who breaks the law? I doubt you'd get many takers for that.

no, i'd suggest they do whats right for them, but don't complain if/when they find they can't use the term "I didn't know", "it was them not me".

But employers do it, because employees let them.

 

[NHAcount]

Where do HMRC say that? My understanding is that it is the employer's responsibility to operate PAYE correctly and that the amount paid to the employee is always treated as being net of deductions, which are the employer's responsibility to pay to HMRC.

It's actually a little bit of both! Yes, employers have a responsibility to operate PAYE correctly but employees also have a responsibility to ensure that the look after their own tax affairs - this includes through employment. As an example, a company a worked for a few years ago had an employee who also had pension income. Due to an error in the use of his tax code he was "under taxed". When HMRC discovered this they wanted the tax paid by him, through his tax code.

Neil

 

[StevensOnln1]

It's actually a little bit of both! Yes, employers have a responsibility to operate PAYE correctly but employees also have a responsibility to ensure that the look after their own tax affairs - this includes through employment. As an example, a company a worked for a few years ago had an employee who also had pension income. Due to an error in the use of his tax code he was "under taxed". When HMRC discovered this they wanted the tax paid by him, through his tax code.

Neil

If the employer used the tax code they were given then they have operated PAYE correctly so would not be responsible for tax that had been underpaid.

Sent from my GT-P1000 using UK Business Forums

 

[NHAcount]

If the employer used the tax code they were given then they have operated PAYE correctly so would not be responsible for tax that had been underpaid.

Sent from my GT-P1000 using UK Business Forums

But that's my point, it was error in the use (er's use) of the tax code. The employee was trying to defend his corner with ignorance, but HMRC were having none of it.

HMRC will judge each case on its own "merits" and I'm not saying it will automatically fall on one party or the other to sort the situation but stepping back and ignoring the issue now could just cause problems further down the line. At the very least the OP needs to know if the employer has/hasn't been paying theor NIC and income tax. If there is an issue discovered later, HMRC will probably just adjust their code to compensate.

Neil

 

[Merchant UK]

So if the employee knows its cash in hand, and knows the employer isn't going to pay any tax or national insurance, who's fault is it?

Your responsible for your own taxes.

Exactly the employee would be seen as being self employed Thus responsible for their own tax and National Insurance payments, therefore the question of Holiday Pay is not relevant

 

[Newchodge]

Exactly the employee would be seen as being self employed Thus responsible for their own tax and National Insurance payments, therefore the question of Holiday Pay is not relevant

This is just not right.

An employer has a legal obligation to deduct appropriate tax and NI and account for them to HMRC for every employee. If there is no employment relationship, ie because the person is a self employed contractor, then there is no obligation and the responsibility is the contractor's. You cannot be self employed without knowing it. There are pretty clear definitions of what is self-employment. Working in someone's chip shop is not going to be considered by HMRC as self employment. The OP says he has received payslips, even if he is worried about their format. It is therefore entirely the employer's responsibility to ensure that deductions are made and payments sent to HMRC. And the OP is entitled to paid holiday.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Regardless of who's fault it is

The employee would have not paid what was due from him and the employer did not pay what he should have as the employers part and combined with the employees part

The employee has had the money and will have to pay it back ether via HMRC or it would be called back by the employer as overpaid wages when HMRC discovers the missing dosh

This all assumes the employer did not make the contributions which we do not know for sure

 

[Merchant UK]

Look i think we all know that working near the coast is seasonal and there are loads of businesses that just stay open for just a few months in the holiday season. Staff at these place are Seasonal too and the majority of them do get paid cash in hand. and there's every possibility that the business is not declaring all there staff, especially the seasonal cash in hand ones.