SEO - Fingers Burnt Once...

[jamesbiggin]

I have (like so many people have done and will do) had my fingers burnt with a company that claimed to be the best, they def did a good selling job on me, and I have wasted a year of my time. Luckily I have proved I was mis-sold and am just about to be fully reimbursed...
I AM looking to continue to have my site optimised (www.steel-city.co.uk) and hope that "forum land" can help as follows :

1. I am looking for website owners that run shopping cart type sites (who are also in a highly competitive industry) to PM me with who they would recommend and why (and who they would avoid like the plague!!) -

2. I am not necessarily looking for companies to sell themselves to be me on the forum (please PM me if you would like, but this might be a waste) - because at the end of the day, every has the ability to use a "success story" to sell themselves. I want referrals and recommendations.

3. I am happy to take opinions on whether I should be looking at a large, medium or small SEO type company and whether that matters.

The reason I mention PM'ing is that I dont want people to start slating the competition in the public area...if companies do, then they have ignored my request and will not be considered.

So, to sum up, please ONLY PM me if you would like to help with either companies to steer well clear of (and why) and companies that have proved to be worth the time, effort and money.

Have I mentioned that I would only like PM's about this???!!!

Cheers

 

[Ali-v-8]

Hi James,

You need to be letting people know about the original SEO company as well and what the actually did (also what they didnt)
I'll email you my quote over on Monday. but tonight is party time for me.

I have (like so many people have done and will do) had my fingers burnt with a company that claimed to be the best, they def did a good selling job on me, and I have wasted a year of my time. Luckily I have proved I was mis-sold and am just about to be fully reimbursed...
I AM looking to continue to have my site optimised (www.steel-city.co.uk) and hope that "forum land" can help as follows :

1. I am looking for website owners that run shopping cart type sites (who are also in a highly competitive industry) to PM me with who they would recommend and why (and who they would avoid like the plague!!) -

2. I am not necessarily looking for companies to sell themselves to be me on the forum (please PM me if you would like, but this might be a waste) - because at the end of the day, every has the ability to use a "success story" to sell themselves. I want referrals and recommendations.

3. I am happy to take opinions on whether I should be looking at a large, medium or small SEO type company and whether that matters.

The reason I mention PM'ing is that I dont want people to start slating the competition in the public area...if companies do, then they have ignored my request and will not be considered.

So, to sum up, please ONLY PM me if you would like to help with either companies to steer well clear of (and why) and companies that have proved to be worth the time, effort and money.

Have I mentioned that I would only like PM's about this???!!!

Cheers

 

[david64]

3. I am happy to take opinions on whether I should be looking at a large, medium or small SEO type company and whether that matters.

I would base that largely on budget and how you would like to do it as there is no one single approach to get traffic for a site. However, from a quick look at your site I would guess you would be best using an SEO consultant as they should be cheaper due to their reduced overheads. A company would be better if you wanted to use multiple disciplines such as development, social media, link building, PPC and so on.

 

[Mystro]

I have (like so many people have done and will do) had my fingers burnt with a company that claimed to be the best, they def did a good selling job on me, and I have wasted a year of my time. Luckily I have proved I was mis-sold and am just about to be fully reimbursed...
I AM looking to continue to have my site optimised (www.steel-city.co.uk) and hope that "forum land" can help as follows :

1. I am looking for website owners that run shopping cart type sites (who are also in a highly competitive industry) to PM me with who they would recommend and why (and who they would avoid like the plague!!) -

2. I am not necessarily looking for companies to sell themselves to be me on the forum (please PM me if you would like, but this might be a waste) - because at the end of the day, every has the ability to use a "success story" to sell themselves. I want referrals and recommendations.

3. I am happy to take opinions on whether I should be looking at a large, medium or small SEO type company and whether that matters.

The reason I mention PM'ing is that I dont want people to start slating the competition in the public area...if companies do, then they have ignored my request and will not be considered.

So, to sum up, please ONLY PM me if you would like to help with either companies to steer well clear of (and why) and companies that have proved to be worth the time, effort and money.

Have I mentioned that I would only like PM's about this???!!!

Cheers

Hi James

To be honest i am not sure if i have read your post wrong but your asking peoples advice on here to recommend somthing for you that you have not described yourself what is wrong.

That is a tall ask, it's you that needs the help and unless you let us know what is wrong and why you were upset with your last venture into seo world then we wont be able to advise.

you talk about being in a highly competative market and a year being wasted, maybe your expectations are too high, maybe your budget was not high enough to complete the work that was needed to get you too your goal.

Remember one size don't fit all in Seo, i personally could recommend david64, Ali-v-8, Old welsh guy, sir earl, fisicx, and many more they all know their stuff.

Just read this forum and youll will already know who to steer clear from

Plus forums are about debate so just getting PM's will not help you out, as all that will happen is your listen to the best salesman again and personally make your decision on your own, when you have already came to a public forum to ask for help. :|

Your site is in a very competative market and whatever you choose im sure your going to have to move in more than 1 direction to acheive your goals..

Im sure you will get all the help you need from here as there are some very talented people that will be able to help you if they get the opportunity

Paul

 

[Rusty]

Firstly, really sorry to hear that you have been let down by your last SEO company. Secondly, well done for realising the problem, managing to get out and hopefully get your money back.

Getting recommendations is absolutely spot on to try to ensure that you don't get a similar result the second time but don't stop there, you really need to speak directly to two or three of their previous clients but don't just take their word for it check out the results for yourself.

A quick list of things to check are:

1. Find out exactly what the seo is going to do for you and don't be put off by jargon or waffle, a good seo should be able to explain everything for you in layman's terms.

2. Ask them what they do about page titles & descriptions. They should be unique and specific to each and every page in the site. Titles should also consist of two halves where possible, keyword/keyphrase focussed in the first half and "WiiFM" in the second half, "what's in it for me". In other words, you should be looking at providing a strong reason why the reader in Google's search results feels like clicking on your result rather than a competitors result and a WiiFM can often make the difference. Think of a WiiFM as a ' visitor benefit' for example if you sell a product and you know your prices are competitive then say so! They'll know a good price when they see one. Your description should be used to back up the title and if used correctly (with the targeted keyword in it) will be used by Google rather than Google randomly selecting some relevant text from your page where the keyword does appear, but which may not have the same hook that a well worded description will achieve.

3. How do they research keywords/phrases? These should not be assumed or taken for granted and they should be looking for the right keywords to bring you targeted and qualifed traffic which will convert, not trophy keywords which are going to look good on their portfolio but be more or less useless to your business. A good way to do this is by running a test bed PPC account which targets a keyword short list that will ultimately provide decent data on ad impressions (users looking under those keywords) and is a very good guide to search volumes. This will also help to test your actual website and conversion rates to ensure that you have the best chance of success.

4. How will they build your backlinks? Links should be completely relevant to your site, clean and in good neighbourhoods. When checking the previous clients sites check out their link profile (Yahoo site explorer will help with this), have a look at a sample selection of the pages where their links appear, what sort of company are they with, is the page bang on topic for the products/services offered, are there a proportion of other UK sites on the page or are they all foreign. This is not a finite list but hopefully you will get my drift.

This all sounds time consuming and a bit over the top, which it is I'm afraid but there is nothing like a bit of due diligence to try to safeguard yourself from a similar experience. It is a sad fact about the SEO industry in general that you need to go to such lengths as this to safeguard your investment and maybe one day things will change.

With regard to what size of SEO company to chose, I'm not sure this is directly related as there's bad apples everywhere, or so it seems but there's good ones too. What matters most is that when you do find one that you can trust, work with them to your maximum and they'll likely do the same.

Good luck and hope it all turns out alright for you in the future and apologies if this is "teaching you to suck eggs" but thought it might be useful.

Kerry

 

[Ali-v-8]

Wow not bad script.
This is well explained.

Firstly, really sorry to hear that you have been let down by your last SEO company. Secondly, well done for realising the problem, managing to get out and hopefully get your money back.

Getting recommendations is absolutely spot on to try to ensure that you don't get a similar result the second time but don't stop there, you really need to speak directly to two or three of their previous clients but don't just take their word for it check out the results for yourself.

A quick list of things to check are:

1. Find out exactly what the seo is going to do for you and don’t be put off by jargon or waffle, a good seo should be able to explain everything for you in layman’s terms.

2. Ask them what they do about page titles & descriptions. They should be unique and specific to each and every page in the site. Titles should also consist of two halves where possible, keyword/keyphrase focussed in the first half and "WiiFM" in the second half, "what's in it for me". In other words, you should be looking at providing a strong reason why the reader in Google's search results feels like clicking on your result rather than a competitors result and a WiiFM can often make the difference. Think of a WiiFM as a ' visitor benefit' for example if you sell a product and you know your prices are competitive then say so! They'll know a good price when they see one. Your description should be used to back up the title and if used correctly (with the targeted keyword in it) will be used by Google rather than Google randomly selecting some relevant text from your page where the keyword does appear, but which may not have the same hook that a well worded description will achieve.

3. How do they research keywords/phrases? These should not be assumed or taken for granted and they should be looking for the right keywords to bring you targeted and qualifed traffic which will convert, not trophy keywords which are going to look good on their portfolio but be more or less useless to your business. A good way to do this is by running a test bed PPC account which targets a keyword short list that will ultimately provide decent data on ad impressions (users looking under those keywords) and is a very good guide to search volumes. This will also help to test your actual website and conversion rates to ensure that you have the best chance of success.

4. How will they build your backlinks? Links should be completely relevant to your site, clean and in good neighbourhoods. When checking the previous clients sites check out their link profile (Yahoo site explorer will help with this), have a look at a sample selection of the pages where their links appear, what sort of company are they with, is the page bang on topic for the products/services offered, are there a proportion of other UK sites on the page or are they all foreign. This is not a finite list but hopefully you will get my drift.

This all sounds time consuming and a bit over the top, which it is I'm afraid but there is nothing like a bit of due diligence to try to safeguard yourself from a similar experience. It is a sad fact about the SEO industry in general that you need to go to such lengths as this to safeguard your investment and maybe one day things will change.

With regard to what size of SEO company to chose, I'm not sure this is directly related as there's bad apples everywhere, or so it seems but there's good ones too. What matters most is that when you do find one that you can trust, work with them to your maximum and they'll likely do the same.

Good luck and hope it all turns out alright for you in the future and apologies if this is "teaching you to suck eggs" but thought it might be useful.

Kerry

 

[Rusty]

Wow not bad script.
This is well explained.

Sorry, went on a bit didn't I :redface: Just a bit of a passion for me, I hate to see people getting a raw deal.

Kerry

 

[jamesbiggin]

OK, I believe a good debate it going (which was my intention)...the mention of PM was just to keep from getting into a slating match and concentrating on company's positives throughout this thread (as I have had enough of negatives).

OK, what happened to me then...in order to kick this on a step....

I was mis-sold an SEO package by a large company (who never ever discussed many technical changes to my site) - they did a very good "job" on me - very convincing and I went with keywords such as promotional merchandise & promotional mugs. I should have been given the full site SEO price (as a 2nd option) but never was - just a "homepage SEO campaign". Half way through I discovered this was never going to work...I had been "done" - but to be fair, they stopped taking the money, did lots of internal work FOC and agreed to go for a set of "easier keywords"....I stuck with it, worrying I would lose the money if I didnt...The next set of keywords havent performed and they have now held their hands up and said that noone has gripped the job and raised concerns at their end at any point and I have been very unlucky. I am to be refunded 100% - which is a relief.

I am not wanting to (say) double turnover of my business through the web...(it is a brochure site, you cant place an order online in our industry anyway).....I am looking for a reasonable increase which is in my business plan and is no way "greedy" or OTT! This is realistic, thought out and takes into account what we are already good at and who we could reach and show (what we are good at) with web presence.

I now realise that it isnt about 5 keywords etc being SEO'ed in a campaign - it is the site in general followed by continued offsite work etc...

SO....I am looking for proposals, suggestions and as many recommended people / companies as I can - put them in the mix, get quotes with loose campaign descriptions (no secret revealing required!!)...and then I can appraise, discuss with previous clients and plan who to use having done a lot of this groundwork in advance.

I hope the above has explained the reasons, what has happened this last year and what I am looking to achieve.

 

[Ali-v-8]

You could have put the links in your signature to the right page james
Sorry James but you also forgot to mention that the work will needed to be implemented too as you don't have time and also the key terms that they will be targeting.

OK, I believe a good debate it going (which was my intention)...the mention of PM was just to keep from getting into a slating match and concentrating on company's positives throughout this thread (as I have had enough of negatives).

OK, what happened to me then...in order to kick this on a step....

I was mis-sold an SEO package by a large company (who never ever discussed many technical changes to my site) - they did a very good "job" on me - very convincing and I went with keywords such as promotional merchandise & promotional mugs. I should have been given the full site SEO price (as a 2nd option) but never was - just a "homepage SEO campaign". Half way through I discovered this was never going to work...I had been "done" - but to be fair, they stopped taking the money, did lots of internal work FOC and agreed to go for a set of "easier keywords"....I stuck with it, worrying I would lose the money if I didnt...The next set of keywords havent performed and they have now held their hands up and said that noone has gripped the job and raised concerns at their end at any point and I have been very unlucky. I am to be refunded 100% - which is a relief.

I am not wanting to (say) double turnover of my business through the web...(it is a brochure site, you cant place an order online in our industry anyway).....I am looking for a reasonable increase which is in my business plan and is no way "greedy" or OTT! This is realistic, thought out and takes into account what we are already good at and who we could reach and show (what we are good at) with web presence.

I now realise that it isnt about 5 keywords etc being SEO'ed in a campaign - it is the site in general followed by continued offsite work etc...

SO....I am looking for proposals, suggestions and as many recommended people / companies as I can - put them in the mix, get quotes with loose campaign descriptions (no secret revealing required!!)...and then I can appraise, discuss with previous clients and plan who to use having done a lot of this groundwork in advance.

I hope the above has explained the reasons, what has happened this last year and what I am looking to achieve.

 

[jamesbiggin]

Good point - yes, I will need the "SEO partner" to be able to impliment the work.
I will give an example of something I would like to consider and that is "promotional mugs"...hope that helps.