SEO - dispel the Myth..........

[lady Cleaner]

I would be interested if a SEO person could be paid from the percentage earned from them doing SEO to my sites- in other words generated from income.

That way it prooves they jolly well know their stuff - plus then our sales improve.
But out there are these SEO guys still wanting money up front & making you take out contracts and promising you the earth - been there! You guessed it total flop!

I would be happy to have a contract but on terms that we both mutually agreed on and also I want to see improvements made !
In other words SALES! PROFITS!

Not airy fairy promises that proove to be false.

A true professional ,I think would be happy to work this way.

We aren't all huge companies - but working with right the SEO people ,who do know their stuff and who are prepared to give us a kick start - there is every reason we could be up there.

Will I get a reply of an offer?

Watch this space.................................

 

[OldWelshGuy]

For this to work, there has to be a lot of things in place.

1. Right product
2. right price
3. right match up

Are you going to give the SEO/SEM person COMPLEtE control over your website?
Are you going to give complete transparency in sales? (auditable) including bank account details?

I have entered into agreements like the above, but the product has to be good, the pricing has to be good, the person has to be good also.

What some don't appreciate is that by asking an SEO to take on this sort of arrangement, you are actually asking someone to INVEST in your business. Investing in a business is a serious consideration, and requires due dilligence.

It is a difficult situation, and one that normally ends in tears because someone who has control over the person you are dealing with (business partner/wife/husband etc) suddenly realises how much money is being paid to 'this bloke' and for what? He/she doesn't appear to be doing much, WE are doing all the work WHY should we PAY? Soon after getting the results (ie. huge increase in revenue) there raises eyebrows, because up until THAT point the money offered as share wasn't REAL money, it was 'maybe' money.

Big difference.

 

[VinceSamios]

We do work for equity, but we select our clients/partners very carefully.

 

[andy_p]

A true professional ,I think would be happy to work this way.

Exactly!

So I take it you wouldn't mind coming round and giving our office building a thorough cleaning on the basis that working in a clean and tidy environment we will be more productive and more profitable.

In return we will pay you a percentage of our profit increase directly attributable to your service.

Shouldn't take you more than a few days work for 2 or 3 people, how about it?

 

[lady Cleaner]

Do I get access to your bank details etc etc!!!!!!!
As I thought a cop out!
There is nothing wrong in bartering either - but you SEO guys are a law unto yourselves _ I know sadly to my cost.
You calll the shots

 

[mattsaw]

Do I get access to your bank details etc etc!!!!!!!
As I thought a cop out!

Why is that a cop out? If you were taking on any other form of investment you would be happy to give access to this?

 

[irishguru]

If someone on the same level as the Dragon's from the Den were to ask me.. I'd say yes. If they weren't that big.. I'd definitely say no because I wouldn't feel comfortable that their business has the potential to return my investment. Basically they would need reputation and a good business to get me to work on a profit share.

 

[Ali-v-8]

tell you what i'll put you on page one of google.
I'm assuming your a local business.
what percentage are we talking.

 

[andy_p]

Do I get access to your bank details etc etc!!!!!!!

Of course you do, they are on the bottom of my invoices...

Who should I make it out to?

 

[stacks]

Great thread, I have often considered a deal like the OP suggested to be a way forward for my business because I have great products at great prices but zero Google presence and very little money to throw at improving that because with very little Google presence I get very few sales....its catch22 vicious circle time!

I know I need a good SEO/Marketeer but I just cant afford one. So with that in mind, I would give an SEO/Marketeer full access to my website, Analytics, and the Order DB and an agreed % of any profits generated from increased sales every month.

The site is an online Home Interiors shop selling furniture with an average value of between £400-£500. The website is *removed, please Pm for details*
Any takers PM me to discuss.

 

[I, Brian]

I would be interested if a SEO person could be paid from the percentage earned from them doing SEO to my sites- in other words generated from income.

That way it prooves they jolly well know their stuff - plus then our sales improve.
But out there are these SEO guys still wanting money up front & making you take out contracts and promising you the earth - been there! You guessed it total flop!

I would be happy to have a contract but on terms that we both mutually agreed on and also I want to see improvements made !
In other words SALES! PROFITS!

Not airy fairy promises that proove to be false.

A true professional ,I think would be happy to work this way.

We aren't all huge companies - but working with right the SEO people ,who do know their stuff and who are prepared to give us a kick start - there is every reason we could be up there.

Will I get a reply of an offer?

Watch this space.................................

Sure - how many of your company shares are you willing to sign over to prove your confidence in a good partner?

 

[david64]

It is a difficult situation, and one that normally ends in tears

Most end in tears, don't go anywhere or are fraught with constant squabling. I've even know one to end with legal action and have only know one to be moderatly successful. One of the big problems is the workloads tend to be unfair.

If you go down this route, it would be best to get someone who has a track record of doing this kind of thing before.

 

[justinmarch]

I have worked in exchange for shares before and it went OK, but as OWG suggests I would not be happy to undertake this type of work unless I had a fair amount of control over the project, site etc and a lot of confidence in the people involved.

 

[OldWelshGuy]

Great thread, I have often considered a deal like the OP suggested to be a way forward for my business because I have great products at great prices but zero Google presence and very little money to throw at improving that because with very little Google presence I get very few sales....its catch22 vicious circle time!

I know I need a good SEO/Marketeer but I just cant afford one. So with that in mind, I would give an SEO/Marketeer full access to my website, Analytics, and the Order DB and an agreed % of any profits generated from increased sales every month.

The site is an online Home Interiors shop selling furniture with an average value of between £400-£500. The website is *removed, please Pm for details*
Any takers PM me to discuss.

Now that in itself is an issue 'profits' how do you define 'profits'? Say the SEO brings in an extra £30k in profits, but the owner decides to rent a brand new rangy @ £700 a month, and give himself a £20k pay rise then the SEO will get at best 50% of £1600 (£800) for briging in £30k in profit.

It has to be a straight share of sales value per product line or overall (depending on how the business works).

This can only really work in the sales industry as trying to get it to work in the service industry is a nightmare. I am assuming the OP is a cleaning agency/company. what if their standard of work is rubbish and their client retention bad, what then for 'profit' ?

 

[lady Cleaner]

You see ,when you absolutely have no knowledge ,no way of seeing how things are being done (SEO is like the Masons) and you have to take a SEO persons's word as gospel.
I am therefore putting my trust in you totally- I don't know you from Adam and as I previously said I have been ripped of before.

Your only choice it appears is pay up or get lost.

Why should I not want to be careful?

We are in a recession and it appears you are only prepared to do SEO for a cert bet - not take a chance and oh dear loose your reputation.

If you go into my sites ,you will see my bank details etc anyway - or didn't you realise that!

 

[OldWelshGuy]

You see ,when you absolutely have no knowledge ,no way of seeing how things are being done (SEO is like the Masons) and you have to take a SEO persons's word as gospel.
I am therefore putting my trust in you totally- I don't know you from Adam and as I previously said I have been ripped of before.

Your only choice it appears is pay up or get lost.

Why should I not want to be careful?

We are in a recession and it appears you are only prepared to do SEO for a cert bet - not take a chance and oh dear loose your reputation.

If you go into my sites ,you will see my bank details etc anyway - or didn't you realise that!

Are you replying to me? I really am not sure, because non of that applies to me. Business is simple. you take chances as and when you need or want to. If there is no need nor want, then taking chances is negligent. As I ahve said previously I DO work on a share of revenue/ownership of company (with a protected share value agreement to stop the twerps who simply issue 100000 shares to de-value your holding )

 

[Ali-v-8]

How dare you!!!
I offered to do it and now you have insulted everyone on here.
I have never heard such a bitter outcry from someone requesting help.
I felt sorry for you and would have made you page one but since you have no respect in the words of peter jones, james caan and pef whats his name I AM OUT.

You see ,when you absolutely have no knowledge ,no way of seeing how things are being done (SEO is like the Masons) and you have to take a SEO persons's word as gospel.
I am therefore putting my trust in you totally- I don't know you from Adam and as I previously said I have been ripped of before.

Your only choice it appears is pay up or get lost.

Why should I not want to be careful?

We are in a recession and it appears you are only prepared to do SEO for a cert bet - not take a chance and oh dear loose your reputation.

If you go into my sites ,you will see my bank details etc anyway - or didn't you realise that!

 

[stacks]

I take your point and that is exactly the basis that I would be willing to do business on.

If sales after the SEO gets involved increased by 80K a month which after costs resulted in a 15% profit of 12K that is the figure I would expect to be splitting somehow.

Now that in itself is an issue 'profits' how do you define 'profits'? Say the SEO brings in an extra £30k in profits, but the owner decides to rent a brand new rangy @ £700 a month, and give himself a £20k pay rise then the SEO will get at best 50% of £1600 (£800) for briging in £30k in profit.

It has to be a straight share of sales value per product line or overall (depending on how the business works).

This can only really work in the sales industry as trying to get it to work in the service industry is a nightmare. I am assuming the OP is a cleaning agency/company. what if their standard of work is rubbish and their client retention bad, what then for 'profit' ?

 

[OldWelshGuy]

You see ,when you absolutely have no knowledge ,no way of seeing how things are being done (SEO is like the Masons) and you have to take a SEO persons's word as gospel.
I am therefore putting my trust in you totally- I don't know you from Adam and as I previously said I have been ripped of before.

Your only choice it appears is pay up or get lost.

Why should I not want to be careful?

We are in a recession and it appears you are only prepared to do SEO for a cert bet - not take a chance and oh dear loose your reputation.

If you go into my sites ,you will see my bank details etc anyway - or didn't you realise that!

and on that note, I think it is safe to say that you are now HIGHLY unlikely to get an SEO willing to get involved (which is a shame).

 

[justinmarch]

Your only choice it appears is pay up or get lost.

It seems to me your getting some pretty good free advice here on how this could work if you did want to reconsider your position. Meanwhile if you want to get some knowledge and do the work yourself let us know and perhaps we can help further with suggestions, links etc.

 

[lady Cleaner]

With regard to upsetting people ,I came for a debate and got one.Nothing wrong in that.
I also stand by what I have said.
If a professional was actually really interested in really helping me ,they should have messaged me privately.
I was NOT asking for freebies - I do not know how percentages work ,something agreeable to both parties obviously - so why ask me here.

It is not for the cleaning site as I only do commercial cleaning locally now.

You may also have looked at my sites and said theres not much that can I actually can do for your sites. At least I would have known.

Still gentlemen enjoy your fireworks night - seems I caused a few here.

 

[lady Cleaner]

That would be very kind - rather than waste your time - could I email you and tell what I do do.
So you can get an inkling of what I rather badly attempt in SEO.

 

Of course it works very well,but as Vince says we pick our projects very carefully.

No good taking on a company with the wrong products that are not likely to produce sufficient profits to make everyone happy.

On the basis I work I am not just an SEO/SEM .

I am a online company builder.

Taking a company website from 200 visitors a day to 10k means I have done more for that company than it is likely the original owner could.

Hence why I want 50% of the net profits generated from a website that is selling physical goods.And joe bloggs can buy his range rover out of his net profits not mine.

Trust and understanding is what makes it work .If anyone tried to turn me over I would not hesitate to pull the rug having several other projects to fall back on.

Tough you bet I am.

Fair you bet I am.

Earl

 

[stacks]

Sorry for getting involved in this thread and perhaps I should start my own one but is anyone actually interested in taking a look into this with me to see if there is any mileage in a potential partnership of sorts?

I take your point and that is exactly the basis that I would be willing to do business on.

If sales after the SEO gets involved increased by 80K a month which after costs resulted in a 15% profit of 12K that is the figure I would expect to be splitting somehow.

 

If someone on the same level as the Dragon's from the Den were to ask me.. I'd say yes. If they weren't that big.. I'd definitely say no because I wouldn't feel comfortable that their business has the potential to return my investment. Basically they would need reputation and a good business to get me to work on a profit share.

As an SEM I would be more interested in the product and the business plan,rather than whether the person was rich or poor had a reputation or not.

I would never invest in someones reputation,they might turn out to be like me.

Earl

 

[Annoying Donkey]

SEO is like the Masons

I take great exception to that. My SEO is nothing like the Masons and never will be.

You see ,when you absolutely have no knowledge ,no way of seeing how things are being done

Then spend 10 years gaining enough experience to properly DIY and you'll know what to do... and be able to charge similar prices for helping others.

I am therefore putting my trust in you totally

That is how business is done, either you trust or you don't.

I previously said I have been ripped of before.

Boy you're going to be lonely if you're current lover leaves and you subsequently blame all future lovers...

Your only choice it appears is pay up or get lost.

Law of supply and demand. If cleaners suddenly became in demand would you keep your prices much lower than the competition? I believe I offer a fair price for the hours I put in. As for profit share this would only work if there was complete trust from both sides. I think you show too much bitterness to be trusted...

 

As for profit share this would only work if there was complete trust from both sides. I think you show too much bitterness to be trusted...

Not at all the guy has been stung thats his experience so far ,so fair comment.

Anyone thats been stung is going to look for reassurance.

I once employed a Lawyer ,there are not enough expletives for my opinion of him.

Earl

 

[Annoying Donkey]

Thinking about renaming my business 'Mason free SEO'

 

[Annoying Donkey]

Not at all the guy has been stung thats his experience so far ,so fair comment.

Yeah, you're probably right, I just took exception to the mason comment - put me in a right mood! :-(

 

[VinceSamios]

I don't understand the mason comment - but I'm a little annoyed I didn't get involved in this argument - would have kept me amused briefly.

 

Yeah, you're probably right, I just took exception to the mason comment - put me in a right mood! :-(

I quite fancy an SEO masonery,we could use secret signs.?

Oh right we already do.

Earl

 

[NICHOLASM1987]

there is guidelines all over the web for seo, i would never pay anyone to do it for me. you just need to think of your keywords choose ones that are searched the most and drive traffic to your site via advertising these seo people promise the world to people and never deliver, the truth is they just want your money and arent really that interested in your business.

 

there is guidelines all over the web for seo, i would never pay anyone to do it for me. you just need to think of your keywords choose ones that are searched the most and drive traffic to your site via advertising these seo people promise the world to people and never deliver, the truth is they just want your money and arent really that interested in your business.

Great post,nice site,whens the liquidation.?

Earl

 

[VinceSamios]

Great post,nice site,whens the liquidation.?

Wheres the liquidation more like... grey matter perhaps?

 

Wheres the liquidation more like... grey matter perhaps?

If I was related to a hoping,boxing Bi-Ped I would be very carefull.

Earl

 

[JohnnyD]

I would be interested if a SEO person could be paid from the percentage earned from them doing SEO to my sites- in other words generated from income.

That way it prooves they jolly well know their stuff - plus then our sales improve.
But out there are these SEO guys still wanting money up front & making you take out contracts and promising you the earth - been there! You guessed it total flop!

I would be happy to have a contract but on terms that we both mutually agreed on and also I want to see improvements made !
In other words SALES! PROFITS!

Not airy fairy promises that proove to be false.

A true professional ,I think would be happy to work this way.

We aren't all huge companies - but working with right the SEO people ,who do know their stuff and who are prepared to give us a kick start - there is every reason we could be up there.

Will I get a reply of an offer?

Watch this space.................................

I would be willing to look at not this but something similar - a position based pricing scheme - if you're interested then send me a PM

 

[Rusty]

Firstly, sorry to hear that you have had a bad experience previously, however, going down a profit share basis will not offer you the protection from getting involved with another cowboy. Okay, so you won't waste any more hard earned money but you will have wasted precious time, which equates to the same thing in the end.

Unfortunately seo, like any other expertise, has it's fair share of cowboys and the best way to protect yourself is to arm yourself with the information necessary to ensure that you don't get stung. The best way of choosing an seo supplier is by referral but don't stop there, ask for past clients contact details and actually contact a few and then personally check out their results. You should do this even if you are contemplating a profit share agreement as you can be sure that any seo worth their salt will be doing due diligence with you.

This situation isn't particular to seo either, we were stung 3 times by web developers before finding our present ones (been with them for 5 yrs now). We found them by following recommendations and then we were given several previous clients and we contacted them all before actually embarking on our first project with them.

Doing due diligence is very time consuming but in the end can save you time, money and sanity so it is worth persevering.

Kerry

Ps, for me a sign of a good seo company should be after talking with them you come away with a basic understanding of the workings of seo and how it will work for you and not be deliberately confused by techie speak as at the end of the day, the best results for you arise out of working as an essential part of the team with your chosen seo.

 

[mattsaw]

I got this in my feed reader this morning - How SEOs Know SEO

http://www.seomoz.org/blog/whiteboard-friday-how-seos-know-seo

Well worth a watch.

Watch this week's Whiteboard Friday to learn where you should focus your efforts if you want to learn SEO. You'll find it's not as complicated as you may think. In fact, it's pretty simple, but not necessarily easy, especially when you start talking about IR and patent analysis, conducting research, collecting and analyzing correlation data, building ranking models, and other fancy strategies. But, as SEO extraordinaire and all-around awesome dude, Dave Snyder, adroitly demonstrated in his recent post about how he got started in internet marketing, hard work, talent, and a little luck are the backbone of success in this industry.

On a completely unrelated note - Rusty, I saw on your site you're based in Colyton I grew up there, fancy a pint in the Colcombe next time I'm down?

 

[petera]

I would be interested if a SEO person could be paid from the percentage earned from them doing SEO to my sites- in other words generated from income.

That way it prooves they jolly well know their stuff - plus then our sales improve.
But out there are these SEO guys still wanting money up front & making you take out contracts and promising you the earth - been there! You guessed it total flop!

I would be happy to have a contract but on terms that we both mutually agreed on and also I want to see improvements made !
In other words SALES! PROFITS!

Not airy fairy promises that proove to be false.

A true professional ,I think would be happy to work this way.

We aren't all huge companies - but working with right the SEO people ,who do know their stuff and who are prepared to give us a kick start - there is every reason we could be up there.

Will I get a reply of an offer?

Watch this space.................................

It's definitely something that can work but there have to be some firm stipulations in place.

- website build from the ground up using best practice SEO guidelines
- If not, all barriers to ranking are identified and rectified at the client's expense before the project begins
- % figure agreed before the project starts and is written into the contract -as OWG pointed out earlier, clients can often become annoyed when they realise how much money the SEO can earn from this sort of
partnership

I'd also throw into the mix that the client pays for the initial SEO setup, with all future payments being based around a % of sales

I currently work with some clients on a retainer + KPI basis and it works well. I don't see why, if all of the above conditions are agreed to, a relationship of this sort wouldn't work. Certainly sorts the men from the boys

 

[I, Brian]

You see ,when you absolutely have no knowledge ,no way of seeing how things are being done (SEO is like the Masons) and you have to take a SEO persons's word as gospel.
I am therefore putting my trust in you totally- I don't know you from Adam and as I previously said I have been ripped of before.

Same happens in any marketing service - there can be no guarantees.

Any form of marketing or advertising cannot guarantee profits or even sales - service providers can only offer these services on the grounds that, from experience, they usually do a good job. Even great companies can fail terribly though:
http://wwwc.mentalfloss.com/static/18630.html
(and click to play that Youtube vid!)

The problem is, you can never predict the response to any promotional activity, and while SEO relies on the technicalities of search engines, it really is little different from general advertising that seeks to manipulate consumers - there are no guaranteed results.

And as Tin pointed out above, even where there is a clear service being paid for, it doesn;t necessarily deliver - whether it's designers, developers, webhosts...or local builders.

There are no guarantees about anything, really.

However, the biggest lesson you learn in business is to manage risk - recognise and deal with it.

If SEO looks like a risk to you, then all the more reason to try and learn a little more about it where possible, to help you manage that risk.

Don't rely on forums and blogs for information, though - every project is client-specific, and there's a lot of well-meaning but otherwise useless advise online - but you can at least use such information as a basis to start conversation.

Hope that helps.