SEO advice for a novice

[Kai_63]

I've got a brand new website up and running and my web agency and I are now going through an SEO plan. I've been trying to read up on SEO as it's not something I'm that familiar with.

The site was created in Magento and the back end includes sections for keywords and meta descriptions. My agency keep telling me that meta descriptions aren't that important nowadays as Google doesn't really pay much attention to them but that's not what my books and basic research online seem to suggest.

Any advice on this would be great.

Thanks

 

[realitybytes]

Meta titles & descriptions are important as they are displayed on your search engine listing and discribe your business. However meta keywords not so much....

 

[OldWelshGuy]

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

The aim of SEO is to get visibility,

The aim of visibility is to get traffic (clicks)

The aim of traffic is to convert into the required action (sales, sign ups etc)

SO

it follows that the aim of SEO is to get action, sales, sign ups etc.

You need to know what does what at each stage and with regard the first stage, your developers are quite right, Google doesn't use the description content to rank a site, it plays no part in their algorithm. HOWEVER, it DOES look at it and will, (if it is good enough) display it underneath the blue link on the search engine result page.

So to that end, the description is very important as it encourages the clicks, which are needed to get the sales.

SEO in 30 seconds HERE WE GO

make sure you have carried out good keyphrase reasearch

Group your content into sub niches of your site theme

Apply your keyphrases to the most appropriate pages

make sure there is a home page for each sub niche and link from it to all the child pages, using the main keyphrase for the target page.

make sure all your pages link to
A. the homepage
B. the main sub niche homepage

make sure your content on each page is tight and contains the main keyphrases plus semantically related and stemmed phrases. break the phrase into individual words also

make sure that your page titles use your keyphrases for that page. most important given the most prominence etc.

Do the above and your on page SEO is half decent.

OFF PAGE:
Get links , get them from web2.0 sources if possible, don't get too hung up on nofollow dofollow, but make sure you get a decent enough buch of do follow links.

To appear natural the mix should be no and do follow.,

Vary the keyword anchor text, get some links with raw urls www.domain.com

Get deep links to your sub niche main pages using the target phrase for that page.

Repeat at product level

If the site is new, then issue a press release. Talk to local publishers and get a listing in their site somehow, beg steal borrow etc.

Do the above and your poff page SEO is half decent. Then, come back and ask more questions

 

[trebor8]

I,m reading up on SEO but these posts always seem to hit the nail on the head

The renowned SEO's (or whatever they call themselves) on this forum really should get there heads together and knock out there own (e)book

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

The aim of SEO is to get visibility,

The aim of visibility is to get traffic (clicks)

The aim of traffic is to convert into the required action (sales, sign ups etc)

SO

it follows that the aim of SEO is to get action, sales, sign ups etc.

You need to know what does what at each stage and with regard the first stage, your developers are quite right, Google doesn't use the description content to rank a site, it plays no part in their algorithm. HOWEVER, it DOES look at it and will, (if it is good enough) display it underneath the blue link on the search engine result page.

So to that end, the description is very important as it encourages the clicks, which are needed to get the sales.

SEO in 30 seconds HERE WE GO

make sure you have carried out good keyphrase reasearch

Group your content into sub niches of your site theme

Apply your keyphrases to the most appropriate pages

make sure there is a home page for each sub niche and link from it to all the child pages, using the main keyphrase for the target page.

make sure all your pages link to
A. the homepage
B. the main sub niche homepage

make sure your content on each page is tight and contains the main keyphrases plus semantically related and stemmed phrases. break the phrase into individual words also

make sure that your page titles use your keyphrases for that page. most important given the most prominence etc.

Do the above and your on page SEO is half decent.

OFF PAGE:
Get links , get them from web2.0 sources if possible, don't get too hung up on nofollow dofollow, but make sure you get a decent enough buch of do follow links.

To appear natural the mix should be no and do follow.,

Vary the keyword anchor text, get some links with raw urls www.domain.com

Get deep links to your sub niche main pages using the target phrase for that page.

Repeat at product level

If the site is new, then issue a press release. Talk to local publishers and get a listing in their site somehow, beg steal borrow etc.

Do the above and your poff page SEO is half decent. Then, come back and ask more questions

 

[Birmingham]

The aim of SEO is to get visibility,

The aim of visibility is to get traffic (clicks)

i wouldn't say that. for me, seo is usually to get traffic not visibility. if they all click I'm Feeling Lucky i really don't mind, so long as i have the traffic. and in the odd occasion that i do seo for visibility, it's usually to give an impression of strong branding & presence when the searcher sees the SERPS, and doesn't actually need a clickthough

i'd agree with your seo agency kai, there are far more important things to worry about than meta content. meta keywords are useless and meta description's advantage is offset by its disadvantage (google's own snippets of in-content matching are often more useful to the searcher)

 

[jamie1183]

Meta Title and Meta Descriptions are very important in my opinion, you can ignore keywords or pay little attention to them (But some search engines may use them)

Meta Titles are a strong part of the onsite SEO the Meta Description is what would show in google natural listings so very important to get right to make people want to click on your listing plus keywords in the meta description will give additional weight to the page.

Dont keyword stuff and ensure they are formatted well, check some well ranked sites to see how they format their Meta Titles and Descriptions should give you some idea on what to do.

 

[Birmingham]

keywords in the meta description will give additional weight to the page.

in what way? i'm quite sure google don't let meta descriptions directly influence rankings

 

[jamie1183]

in what way? i'm quite sure google don't let meta descriptions directly influence rankings

? If you search anything in google the words you search are highlighted in the meta description if they appear so clearly shows they are taken notice of as are words related to this search.

Eg Security Lights, would probably also highlight, Security Lighting etc

 

[Birmingham]

yes google acknowledge meta description keyword matches purely for accessibility, which can help conversion, but does not directly affect how highly your site ranks in serps. i agree it's twisted logic and google need to improve their policy here, but nevertheless, they've made it clear.

 

[jamie1183]

They dont always just use the meta description alone, google now often creates its own description to make it more relevant.

I suppose what I meant is it adds weight to the listing in google I guess if anything, as it will give people more information about the page and highlight those keywords to show relevance of the page.

However don't spend alot of time on these methods, SEO involves much more than setting a few Meta tags

 

[Experienced IT guy]

Some free tools and advice here...

http://www.ava.co.uk/support/faq/si...eryone/free-seo-tools-to-get-you-started.aspx

 

[SearchBlogger]

I've written a few blog posts on SEO for small businesses which might be useful.

 

[Marketing_guy]

in what way? i'm quite sure google don't let meta descriptions directly influence rankings

I'm not sure there's any solid evidence of that and whilst I agree they have little if any impact on the SERPS, you should at least enter an elevator pitch that includes your keywords

 

[bobaloula]

Meta title to me is the most important - keep it simple and don't stuff with keywords

Meta description although isn't used for ranking it is the breadcrumb that delivers your visits - make it readable and again don't stuff with keywords - I sometimes take a good snippet from the page that contains the required keywords so people can see what to expect if they click.

H1 tags should also back your page keywords/ phrases up

The most important thing I could say that the very comprehensive welsh guy hasn't already is make sure everything on your page points in the same direction, don't dilute the message to the search engines and make sure it does what it says on the tin.

 

[jameskodo85]

The site was created in Magento and the rear includes sections for keywords and meta descriptions. My agency keeps telling me that meta descriptions are not so important today, while Google did not really pay much attention to them, but that's not what my books and online database appear suggest.

 

[Marketing_guy]

The site was created in Magento and the rear includes sections for keywords and meta descriptions. My agency keeps telling me that meta descriptions are not so important today, while Google did not really pay much attention to them, but that's not what my books and online database appear suggest.

Hi James,

There is no solid evidence to suggest Google doesn't take into consideration meta descriptions and there are also 100's of other search engines that do. Also in google webmaster tools if you have an empty, short or duplicate meta description they flag it up to you to complete.

The best practice approach to descriptions is to create them as teasers. You know the things that people read before deciding to click through to read more. these should then naturally contain your keywords and google can decide whether or not to use them in ranking or display

 

[unet]

The site was created in Magento and the rear includes sections for keywords and meta descriptions. My agency keeps telling me that meta descriptions are not so important today, while Google did not really pay much attention to them, but that's not what my books and online database appear suggest.

They are no so important as they were a few years ago but they do need to be included.

Get your " on page" seo and the "off page" becomes easy. Google does look at your meta

 

[Birmingham]

Hi James,

There is no solid evidence to suggest Google doesn't take into consideration meta descriptions and there are also 100's of other search engines that do.

but google has 99% market share, and there is solid evidence if you know where to find it...

http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answer=35264

While accurate meta descriptions can improve clickthrough, they won't impact your ranking within search results.

 

[Marketing_guy]

but google has 99% market share, and there is solid evidence if you know where to find it...

http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answer=35264

Google has 99% market share - which market? - http://www.vertical-leap.co.uk/news/google-stumbles-in-uk-search-market-share/

As for descriptions - whether they do or whether they don't help rankings, I would always create them and incorporate my keywords. They are an indication of query to page relevancy one of the main ranking factors (relevancy)

 

[JohnnyCash]

Hi James,

There is no solid evidence to suggest Google doesn't take into consideration meta descriptions and there are also 100's of other search engines that do.

Lol. Okay, let me hear even 10 of them that have more than 0.5% market share each.

 

[alamgir]

Meta titles & descriptions are important as they are displayed on your search engine listing and discribe your business. Meta keyword is also imprtant for the search engine.

 

[Marketing_guy]

Lol. Okay, let me hear even 10 of them that have more than 0.5% market share each.

Well shall we just say that Google accounts for about 70% of the search market. That means there is 30% of the market split between the rest, mainly Yahoo & Bing or what may be soon known as Bingoo

By all means JohnnyCash you can put all your search eggs in one engine if you wish, just like the other guy who thinks Google accounts for 99% of all searches

 

[JohnnyCash]

Well shall we just say that Google accounts for about 70% of the search market. That means there is 30% of the market split between the rest, mainly Yahoo & Bing or what may be soon known as Bingoo

By all means JohnnyCash you can put all your search eggs in one engine if you wish, just like the other guy who thinks Google accounts for 99% of all searches

Google accounts for more than 70%. Msn, Ask.com (powered by google), Bing and Yahoo are the next biggest I think. None of those use meta descriptions as a ranking factor.

So again, lets hear a few of these 100's that actually matter, which take it into account. Or post some sort of stats, facts or links to back up that claim you made?

Can you even name 20 search engines that actually send measurable traffic?

 

[Marketing_guy]

Google accounts for more than 70%. Msn, Ask.com (powered by google), Bing and Yahoo are the next biggest I think. None of those use meta descriptions as a ranking factor.

So again, lets hear a few of these 100's that actually matter, which take it into account. Or post some sort of stats, facts or links to back up that claim you made?

Can you even name 20 search engines that actually send measurable traffic?

Blah Blah Blah - I'm bored now

 

[JohnnyCash]

Blah Blah Blah - I'm bored now

Translation - I posted a lot of nonsense, then when asked to put up or shut up, I couldn't.

 

[Marketing_guy]

Translation - I posted a lot of nonsense, then when asked to put up or shut up, I couldn't.

Not really, i just don't want to get into the inevitable bull$^!* debate that gets us nowhere after posting some advice to the OP - it's my opinion supported by a wide range of information out there - all you have to do is look if you want it

Line drawn in the sand - end of discussion

 

[JohnnyCash]

Not really, i just don't want to get into the inevitable bull$^!* debate that gets us nowhere after posting some advice to the OP - it's my opinion supported by a wide range of information out there - all you have to do is look if you want it

Your advice is wrong, therefore its damaging to the OP.

The whole point of an seo forum is (hopefully) to discuss stuff and learn things. That can't happen while people are making baseless (and completely made up) posts, then refusing to provide any sort of factual evidence, or even anecdotal evidence of it, when asked.

So go on then, if there is a wide range of information supporting it, why not post a link or two? As I've looked, and I can't find any.

 

[Marketing_guy]

Your advice is wrong, therefore its damaging to the OP.

The whole point of an seo forum is (hopefully) to discuss stuff and learn things. That can't happen while people are making baseless (and completely made up) posts, then refusing to provide any sort of factual evidence, or even anecdotal evidence of it, when asked.

So go on then, if there is a wide range of information supporting it, why not post a link or two? As I've looked, and I can't find any.

And so JohnnyCash has the last word - Well done, You've achieved you're main objective - it's people like you who make these forums such a wonderful place to be...

 

[Marketing_guy]

Oh and how can telling the OP to use descriptions in a way that is attractive to the searcher be damaging - try perspective

 

[JohnnyCash]

Because if he doesn't know why he's doing something, you're sending him down the wrong path and he'll end up wasting time on things that are completely irrelevant. I'll just go ahead and put you on the ignore list now, no need to reply to this.

 

[Marketing_guy]

Because if he doesn't know why he's doing something, you're sending him down the wrong path and he'll end up wasting time on things that are completely irrelevant. I'll just go ahead and put you on the ignore list now, no need to reply to this.

So it's a waste of time creating a description that gives a searcher a reason to click through to site - that is just utter nonsense - please do ignore me, happy to have lost your acquaintance...

 

[unet]

So instead of helping the OP both of you are now having a bun fight

nice !

 

[Marketing_guy]

So instead of helping the OP both of you are now having a bun fight

nice !

Fair enough - apologies to the OP -

 

[OldWelshGuy]

Hi James,

There is no solid evidence to suggest Google doesn't take into consideration meta descriptions and there are also 100's of other search engines that do. Also in google webmaster tools if you have an empty, short or duplicate meta description they flag it up to you to complete.

The best practice approach to descriptions is to create them as teasers. You know the things that people read before deciding to click through to read more. these should then naturally contain your keywords and google can decide whether or not to use them in ranking or display

but google has 99% market share, and there is solid evidence if you know where to find it...

http://www.google.com/support/webmasters/bin/answer.py?answer=35264

While accurate meta descriptions can improve clickthrough, they won't impact your ranking within search results.

I am amazed that Mg didn't simply say 'fair enough, there IS solid evidence', after being presented with the above?

There is a saying that goes 'when in a hole, stop digging

 

[Rookery]

A little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

SEO in 30 seconds HERE WE GO

make sure you have carried out good keyphrase reasearch

Group your content into sub niches of your site theme

Apply your keyphrases to the most appropriate pages

make sure there is a home page for each sub niche and link from it to all the child pages, using the main keyphrase for the target page.

make sure all your pages link to
A. the homepage
B. the main sub niche homepage

make sure your content on each page is tight and contains the main keyphrases plus semantically related and stemmed phrases. break the phrase into individual words also

make sure that your page titles use your keyphrases for that page. most important given the most prominence etc.

Do the above and your on page SEO is half decent.

OFF PAGE:
Get links , get them from web2.0 sources if possible, don't get too hung up on nofollow dofollow, but make sure you get a decent enough buch of do follow links.

To appear natural the mix should be no and do follow.,

Vary the keyword anchor text, get some links with raw urls www.domain.com

Get deep links to your sub niche main pages using the target phrase for that page.

Repeat at product level

If the site is new, then issue a press release. Talk to local publishers and get a listing in their site somehow, beg steal borrow etc.

Do the above and your poff page SEO is half decent. Then, come back and ask more questions

This seems to be an excellent post - trouble is I dont understand most of it. I'm a tradesman with a website made using MS OfficeLive. Its mainly info about me and my services and pics & testimonials from previous work. I want potential localish customers to find me and so I imagine most would type into google eg ' plumber in Xtown ', see my listing and click on it.
Am I best paying someone to do it for me and how do I know who to choose? I would rather do it myself is possible so is there a place where I can get info in laymans terms.

 

[Annoying Donkey]

This seems to be an excellent post - trouble is I dont understand most of it. I'm a tradesman with a website made using MS OfficeLive. Its mainly info about me and my services and pics & testimonials from previous work. I want potential localish customers to find me and so I imagine most would type into google eg ' plumber in Xtown ', see my listing and click on it.
Am I best paying someone to do it for me and how do I know who to choose? I would rather do it myself is possible so is there a place where I can get info in laymans terms.

Which part do you not understand?

Start with keyword research, do you know how to do this?

 

[Rookery]

Which part do you not understand?

Pretty much none of it :|

 

[Experienced IT guy]

This seems to be an excellent post - trouble is I dont understand most of it. I'm a tradesman with a website made using MS OfficeLive. Its mainly info about me and my services and pics & testimonials from previous work. I want potential localish customers to find me and so I imagine most would type into google eg ' plumber in Xtown ', see my listing and click on it.
Am I best paying someone to do it for me and how do I know who to choose? I would rather do it myself is possible so is there a place where I can get info in laymans terms.

Well from the top: I think the problem is you have jumped into this post half way through. OldWeshGuy is pretty much on the money, but he does assume you have some basics.

First web pages / sites must fulfil two needs:
1. The human person who is looking at your site need to see what they want: often pictures so its not just a plain boring heap of text, testimonials from satisfied customers etc.
2. Search engines: they have things called robots which tirelessly look at everything they can find. A little kindness to them will often pay dividends: this is known as Search Engine optimisation or SEO.
When a web page is laid out it uses hidden bits of code to put "content" aka text and pictures in a hopefully pleasing way. SEO Robots use these hidden bits of code to decide how interesting a page may be (amongst other things). If they are not there, then the robot considers the page boring in the same way we would see a plain mass of text with no paragraphs, titles etc.
So one of the first things to do is understand the language that web pages are written in, because this is what a SEO robot sees.
Googling "HTML for dummies" will get you started there.
Once you have that on board, then re read OldWelshGuys entry.
Once you have done that, goto
http://www.ava.co.uk/support/faq/si...eryone/free-seo-tools-to-get-you-started.aspx
for free tools to do this. You will then be able to decide about contracting out your SEO (or not)

 

[JohnnyCash]

Pretty much none of it :|

It depends what value you put on your time then. You could learn everything you need and probably manage to rank for something not very competitive like "plumber in Bradford", but you might get a better ROI spending that time fixing boilers instead and paying someone to rank it for you. Its not a big job.

If you can, I'd learn and do it yourself. Its better to know how to run and maintain your site and seo, rather than rely on someone else.

 

[Annoying Donkey]

Pretty much none of it :|

Oh Dear! Suggest you get a copy of SEO for Dummies as a starter.

If you're in a hurry, then hire someone.

Try and define what you want, then get some quotes. Find people who will supply regular ranking and visitor reports. Get written proposals and compare. You can always come back here and ask if the written proposals sound reasonable (though you'll probably get many different opinions!). Then monitor the rankings yourself - just search in google for the search terms specified and hopefully watch your site rise...