Selling Retro Remake Football Shirts

[Tommy C]

Hi,

New to the forum as needing to ask some legal advice about a business I'm considering starting.

As a result of Covid-19 I've started buying retro remakes of football shirts from wholesale manufacturers, and selling on ebay and facebook marketplace to make some extra cash and it has been relatively profitable, enough to make me believe there could be a business in this.

I don't know for certain, but I'm assuming the manufacturers of these shirts don't have a licence to sell them with the brand logos on them (Nike, Adidas, Reebok etc.) and I certainly don't.

It's my understanding that doing something like this long term wouldn't be feasible due to not having a licence to sell these products, but there are several retailers doing this with a professional set up on their own website (beautiful90s, RetroFC) or setting up shops on Etsy, which have sold thousands of these products. They also buy from the same manufacturer as me.

Also, all the shirts will be products that have been out of production for a long time, and more often than not, the shirt manufacturer for a particularly clubs 30 years ago would not now be producing football shirts for the same football club in 2020. So a likeness of all shirts I would sell will not be in production by any other manufacturer.

Questions are.....
How are those other sellers able to stay in business whilst not having a licence to sell the products?

If I was to start selling these products in a considerabley higher capacity, where would I stand legally?

How would I be able to set this up as a professional business, whilst making sure I wouldn't leave myself open to potential litigation?

I maybe overthinking this too much, but want to make sure that I'm not investing in something, that at the moment I expect will come back to haunt me.

Any info this forum can give me would be grately appreciated, or alternatively, recommendations on someone to speak with in more about this would also be great.

Thank you

 

[Mr D]

You have a business at the moment, if you hit threshold of a grand you get to register with HMRC and pay tax on the profits.

The other sellers may be below the radar still. Or made their own arrangements with brand owners.
You cannot usually know what someone else has done.

 

[Tommy C]

You have a business at the moment, if you hit threshold of a grand you get to register with HMRC and pay tax on the profits.

The other sellers may be below the radar still. Or made their own arrangements with brand owners.
You cannot usually know what someone else has done.

You have a business at the moment, if you hit threshold of a grand you get to register with HMRC and pay tax on the profits.

The other sellers may be below the radar still. Or made their own arrangements with brand owners.
You cannot usually know what someone else has done.

Thank you so much for the quick response and the info about HMRC.

In regards to agreements with brand owners, you're saying I should reach out to Adidas or Nike for example and ask for permission to sell a product with their logo on it?

 

[MikeJ]

I'd ask the manufacturers to see if they've got a licence. The answer's probably no.

You've no hope of getting permission from Adidas or Nike to use their logo. It's not even worth asking the question.

If any of the top brands see you, the best you can hope for is to lose your ebay account. Worst case is losing your home when they sue the backside off you. The other people doing it are probably based overseas in somewhere difficult to sue, and are dropshipping the products in the UK.

 

[Tommy C]

I'd ask the manufacturers to see if they've got a licence. The answer's probably no.

You've no hope of getting permission from Adidas or Nike to use their logo. It's not even worth asking the question.

If any of the top brands see you, the best you can hope for is to lose your ebay account. Worst case is losing your home when they sue the backside off you. The other people doing it are probably based overseas in somewhere difficult to sue, and are dropshipping the products in the UK.

Thanks for this! As what I expected.

There's one shop which I think is doing particularly well in sales and has the most professional set up. They remove the shirt manufacturer logo and sometimes even the club logo from their products that show on their website, then when you recieve the actual products it will have the logos on the shirt.

I'm assuming that is how they get around it, but then if someone recieves the product with the logo on it then surely there would still be room to get sued?

 

[paulears]

The technique is to open an account, sell as many as you can, then before they cut you off when the first person raises a complaint, start a new account so you can continue trading when the first account is closed. You need to probably have multiple paypal accounts too, with multiple identities and bank accounts. People can do it, and frequently do, but if you are in the UK, eventually trading standards will get to hear, pay a visit and take your stock away. The Police also get drawn in sometimes, exploring the proceeds of crime aspect, in case you're a drug dealer too?

You cannot sell counterfeit goods safely - it's always something that catches you out. I actually nearly reported an ebay seller two days ago - selling a German branded microphone that I was offered by a chinese supplier. A few tell tale give away mistakes visible in the picture. When he had the auction up to a hundred quid on a 30 dollar cost item I smiled, but when I noticed it had reached 700, that's rip-off in a big way. Luckily, somebody else tipped ebay off before me and he and his product vanished. Collectors kit is always vulnerable. If you want to stay respectable, don't do it.

 

[obscure]

Obviously you would never drive over the speed limit... but imagine if you did but there were no police around. You don't get caught and nothing happens. But the next time you do it they are there and you get a ticket. That ticket is just for the one time you got caught.
Now imagine that you did it 43 times without getting caught but on the 44th time they caught you and the policemen was able to look at you and tell how many time you had done it and issue you a ticket for each one.... 44 tickets/fines all in one go. That is Copyright/Trademark infringement (which is what you are planning to do).

Questions are.....
How are those other sellers able to stay in business whilst not having a licence to sell the products?

They have paid for a license... or they haven't been caught yet. If the latter then the longer they get away and the more shirts they sell the bigger the fine gets.

If I was to start selling these products in a considerabley higher capacity, where would I stand legally?

unless you had a license it would be trademark infringement and possibly copyright infringement as well.

How would I be able to set this up as a professional business, whilst making sure I wouldn't leave myself open to potential litigation?

buy the necessary licenses - except that will cost millions of £.

 

[Ian J]

People can do it, and frequently do, but if you are in the UK, eventually trading standards will get to hear, pay a visit and take your stock away.

Yet in European countries counterfeit products are openly on sale everywhere and I'm not just talking about Lookey Lookey men as many tourist shops will be selling branded leather belts etc for a nominal sum