Self employed dentist

[mixtape]

Hi, I've worked as a salaried employee in the NHS for years. However, I am soon starting a job as a Dental Associate. I have been told that this will be a self employed position.
I am looking for more information on this, preferably from tax accountants, since I assume I will need one in the near future, if I am to set up a LLC.

 

[Newchodge]

You first need to make sure that you are self employed. As opposed to being screwed by an unscrupulous employer.

Do you provide your own equipment? Do you control your own working hours? Do you decide what to charge? Can you send another dentist to do your work?

Check, very carefully.

 

[GazNicki]

As Newchodge has said, you need to ensure you are Self Employed. If you are, then they can't be telling you what the terms of employment are.

If you are self employed, simply register with the HMRC as a Sole Trader. No need to be set up and LLC or anything just yet. You can maintain cash based accounting simply using nothing more than Excel.

Have you stipulated what your daily rate will be, the terms of your payment, etc?

 

[mixtape]

I'm being paid per Unit of Dental Activity (UDA), so not a daily rate. I will look into the sole trader option. I was told LLC, but not convinced.

 

[Newchodge]

I'm being paid per Unit of Dental Activity (UDA), so not a daily rate. I will look into the sole trader option. I was told LLC, but not convinced.

Please don't ignore the other points, unless you are contracted direct to the NHS. If your contract is with a dental practice you are, almost certainly, an employee.

 

[Mr D]

I'm being paid per Unit of Dental Activity (UDA), so not a daily rate. I will look into the sole trader option. I was told LLC, but not convinced.

If they can decide what hours you work, if they can decide you cannot send someone else in your place to do the work, if you must use their equipment, if you must wear clothing provided by them, if you are not billing them for work done as a total every so often....
Then you pretty much will be employed. And entitled to holiday pay, sick pay, employer contribution towards your pension etc.

Some employers try to avoid national insurance, holiday and pension costs by claiming someone is self employed. When in reality an employee.
Make very sure from the start.

 

[MyAccountantOnline]

Please don't go ahead and register with HMRC as self employed before seeking professional advice.

The very best thing you can do is to take some proper specific professional advice based on your circumstances from an accountant who specialises in acting for clients in your profession that way you will ensure you pay no more in tax than you have to.

 

[mixtape]

Please don't ignore the other points, unless you are contracted direct to the NHS. If your contract is with a dental practice you are, almost certainly, an employee.

I dont intend to ignore the other points.
As someone else commented, I think I will have to speak with an accountant to get an idea based on my circs.

The reason I asked on the forum is that almost all my dentist friends who work in general practice seem to be self employed, but imo, they ought to be considered emp[loyees! I have been advised by these same people that I ought to look into being self employed, LLC etc.

My worry is whether the employing practices/corporates are gently pushing this "self employed" status on to associate dentists. If so, I fear I'm stuck.

 

[Newchodge]

I dont intend to ignore the other points.
As someone else commented, I think I will have to speak with an accountant to get an idea based on my circs.

The reason I asked on the forum is that almost all my dentist friends who work in general practice seem to be self employed, but imo, they ought to be considered emp[loyees! I have been advised by these same people that I ought to look into being self employed, LLC etc.

My worry is whether the employing practices/corporates are gently pushing this "self employed" status on to associate dentists. If so, I fear I'm stuck.

Perhaps you should take the role and then all of your associates should report the practice to HMRC.

 

[Mr D]

I dont intend to ignore the other points.
As someone else commented, I think I will have to speak with an accountant to get an idea based on my circs.

The reason I asked on the forum is that almost all my dentist friends who work in general practice seem to be self employed, but imo, they ought to be considered emp[loyees! I have been advised by these same people that I ought to look into being self employed, LLC etc.

My worry is whether the employing practices/corporates are gently pushing this "self employed" status on to associate dentists. If so, I fear I'm stuck.

Could always, years later, demand payment for your unused holiday.
Its been done.

https://www.porterdodson.co.uk/blog/self-employed-worker-can-claim-13-years-of-unpaid-holiday-pay

 

[mixtape]

Perhaps you should take the role and then all of your associates should report the practice to HMRC.

I don't know the true scale of this matter.

I keep reading about the IR35 clause, and the HMRC have clearly been making it increasingly difficult for such individuals to draw any tax benefits from the LLC route.

Must fix up an appointment with an accntnt.

 

[SERC1204]

I'm not a dentist, but raised a similar question on AccountingWeb a couple of years back.

It is normal for dentists in general practice (associates, not partners) to be self-employed. Apparently the British Dental Association has agreed this practice with HMRC regarding this, I don't know what the specifics are, but it is subject to having a BDA or DPA approved contract in place and it would seem the generic self-employment test isn't comprehensive enough.

The BDA should be able to offer advice, but also seek out an experienced "dental" accountant.

 

[mixtape]

Could always, years later, demand payment for your unused holiday.
Its been done.

Interesting!
I just don't want to end up owing the HMRC any money.

They've made a total mess of my tax credits in the past, the idi*ts. Took me months and numerous phone calls (with wait times approaching more than an hour!) to sort that out.

 

[Mr D]

Interesting!
I just don't want to end up owing the HMRC any money.

They've made a total mess of my tax credits in the past, the idi*ts. Took me months and numerous phone calls (with wait times approaching more than an hour!) to sort that out.

Ah yes, good old government management.
And some people wanted staff from such organisations running our utilities and public transport!

 

[bodgitt&scarperLTD]

Interesting!
I just don't want to end up owing the HMRC any money.

They've made a total mess of my tax credits in the past, the idi*ts. Took me months and numerous phone calls (with wait times approaching more than an hour!) to sort that out.

You don't need to star out 'idiots'....

In fact, I don't think you even need to star out 'tits'

Edit- nope!

 

[billybob99]

You don't need to star out 'idiots'....

In fact, I don't think you even need to star out 'tits'

Edit- nope!

I got a warning and had a post removed for calling someone a dinosaur.

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

HMRC’s long held view has generally been that as long as an associate continued to pay their share of laboratory fees (when the premises was run by another dentist), they would remain self-employed if they kept to the terms of their associate agreements, which are approved by the BDA and the Dental Practitioners’ Association (DPA). Recent tribunal cases highlight issues surrounding employment status; it still seems that HMRC remain content that as long as dentists follow the rules and use a BDA/DPA approved contract, associates continue to be regarded as self-employed However, categorising dental associates as self-employed for tax purposes is not always straightforward as we are aware anecdotally that many associates either do not have the required contract in place, or their working arrangements do not ‘fit’ the terms of that contract. Depending on the actual nature of the contract or working practices, it is possible that we may see the employment status of associate dentists being challenged by HMRC.

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

I have a few NHS dentist clients - they tend to have a self employed activity running alongside their NHS Contract.

Their problem is the tax charge on the growth of their NHS Pension Scheme(s) each tax year.

 

[Ian J]

I got a warning and had a post removed for calling someone a dinosaur.

You are joking - I hope

 

[ecommerce84]

I got a warning and had a post removed for calling someone a dinosaur.

Too many sn*wfl*kes.

 

[Mark T Jones]

I got a warning and had a post removed for calling someone a dinosaur.

was that Mr P Teridactyl?

 

[DontAsk]

Too many sn*wfl*kes.

Remember the problems with Scunthorpe in the early days of automated filtering.

I would be surprised if dinosaur were being filtered. If there's human involvement then simply starring letters out does not (should not) get you out of jail free. The intent is clear.

 

[Mr D]

Remember the problems with Scunthorpe in the early days of automated filtering.

I would be surprised if dinosaur were being filtered. If there's human involvement then simply starring letters out does not (should not) get you out of jail free. The intent is clear.

The intent is clear but few will claim to be offended by some **.
Come to think of it, pointless using the word if the intent isn't clear!

 

[Deleted member 59730]

was that Mr P Teridactyl?

Reminds me of the Band, "Terry Dactyl and the Dinosaurs"

 

[DontAsk]

few will claim to be offended by some **.

Speak for yourself. I would be just as offended being called a **** as if it were spelled out in full.

 

[Mr D]

Speak for yourself. I would be just as offended being called a **** as if it were spelled out in full.

You get offended being called a star?
Or is it the words where the asterisk is used that's the problem?

 

[DontAsk]

You get offended being called a star?

Where did I say that?

"just as offended" means an equal level of offence, not some absolute measure.

 

[Mr D]

Where did I say that?

"just as offended" means an equal level of offence, not some absolute measure.

So be offended at what someone calls you. Just don't be surprised if what you think and what they say are different.
However there are other people who aren't offended at seeing a particular word used. We aren't all old maiden aunts.