Seeking advice

[movietub]

lol, he bought something off me and said that the item was good. Now he doesnt reply to any of my E-Mails?

Item is good. Only hold up is I'm researching if MS can enforce their policy of not distributing US versions outside of the US. I don't believe they can.

But trust me I'm working on it and sorry for the delay in answering PMs

Will be back on top of this soon I hope...

 

[movietub]

Yes, I found out he had been flirting with other internet girlies and I thought I was his only one! I hit him over the head with a big wet kipper and he is now lyning on the floor in the bathroom of our second life masionette. Shall I try and wake him for you?

*sighs*

All my life I have been surrounded my jealous women. why can't you all get along?

It's hardly my fault there is only one of me!

You are the only internet girlie called Sara I promise. Except the other one on here, forget her username

You are the main one though.

 

[citizen_erased]

Hey, yeah the last thing I want is to be in trouble with MS. I could look for another resource in the UK? I believe that to sell MS software, it should say ORIGIN: MADE IN IRELAND?

 

[movietub]

Hey, yeah the last thing I want is to be in trouble with MS. I could look for another resource in the UK? I believe that to sell MS software, it should say ORIGIN: MADE IN IRELAND?

You won't be in trouble with MS either way. you are perfectly entitled to buy and re-sell anything so long as it isn't stolen etc.

It's their policy of 'distribution in the US only' which is questionable. A warning is flashed up occasionally which is annoying. To resell US copies on a large scale I need to make sure that this can be passed of as MS taking the p*ss with it's product control, and not MS enforcing a law that is actually relevant and applies in this case.

As I understand the situation they can have an internal policy of different versions only going to certain countries dealers. But they have no actual right to stop those dealers selling on and someone else where paying for and using the software.

But the open market is never really as open as it should be! I have someone digging around for test cases at the moment. Then we can see if this is a problem at all.

 

[MikeD08]

Hello movietub,

Microsoft could (and have in the past) take action if they wanted to. In my time as an IT Reseller I can across a few companies being fined, a couple of resellers being shut down and even a couple of distributors having their supply restricted due to breaking the licence agreements and selling outside their 'zone'.

I'm 99% sure this all forms part of the licence agreement and they will enforce it if any mis-selling or misuse comes to their attention. You may also have problems reselling the software for business use due to the licence restrictions.

CE: This could also put you in a potentially precarious situation as the supplier of the software.

 

[citizen_erased]

You won't be in trouble with MS either way. you are perfectly entitled to buy and re-sell anything so long as it isn't stolen etc.

It's their policy of 'distribution in the US only' which is questionable. A warning is flashed up occasionally which is annoying. To resell US copies on a large scale I need to make sure that this can be passed of as MS taking the p*ss with it's product control, and not MS enforcing a law that is actually relevant and applies in this case.

As I understand the situation they can have an internal policy of different versions only going to certain countries dealers. But they have no actual right to stop those dealers selling on and someone else where paying for and using the software.

But the open market is never really as open as it should be! I have someone digging around for test cases at the moment. Then we can see if this is a problem at all.

Seems like you have everything covered, thats cool. What about Adobe?

 

[movietub]

Hello movietub,

Microsoft could (and have in the past) take action if they wanted to. In my time as an IT Reseller I can across a few companies being fined, a couple of resellers being shut down and even a couple of distributors having their supply restricted due to breaking the licence agreements and selling outside their 'zone'.

I'm 99% sure this all forms part of the licence agreement and they will enforce it if any mis-selling or misuse comes to their attention. You may also have problems reselling the software for business use due to the licence restrictions.

CE: This could also put you in a potentially precarious situation as the supplier of the software.

Yes, licence agreement between MS and their re-sellers. This gives them the power to stipulate restrictions that MS consider beneficial. And also allows the reason to close a distributors account or more likely remove discount etc.

That does not mean that if the dealer resells the software (possibly in a way that MS don't like or have precluded for the agreement) that the software itself becomes illegal. The sale is legitimate from the buyers point of view.

In the same way that BMW sells cheaper on the continant then in the UK. That doesn't mean if I buy a new one in Germany and choose to bring it over here a day later and sell it that I have done anything wrong. Niether has the dealer. BUT the dealer would not be allowed to do that themselves.

 

[MikeD08]

Yes, licence agreement between MS and their re-sellers. This gives them the power to stipulate restrictions that MS consider beneficial. And also allows the reason to close a distributors account or more likely remove discount etc.

That does not mean that if the dealer resells the software (possibly in a way that MS don't like or have precluded for the agreement) that the software itself becomes illegal. The sale is legitimate from the buyers point of view.

In the same way that BMW sells cheaper on the continant then in the UK. That doesn't mean if I buy a new one in Germany and choose to bring it over here a day later and sell it that I have done anything wrong. Niether has the dealer. BUT the dealer would not be allowed to do that themselves.

Nice analogy but unfortunately its off the mark as far as Microsoft are concerned. If the Joe Bloggs Ltd was using software for the US Market he would, in the eyes of Microsoft & FAST, be classed as using unlicenced software. The sale may have been legitimate from the buyers point of view but neither MS or FAST would really give 2 hoots.

I spent 6 years as reseller and took quite a few MS licencing courses, and had some major clients for who I managed their licence agreements etc.

I'll admit to having been out of the software industry for past 3 years but I seriously doubt things have changed with regards to areas of distribution and EULAs etc.

If you want to break in to the software market I can point you in the direction of traders who supply software for EMEA areas which is what, again in the eyes of Microsoft, you should be selling in the UK.

 

[movietub]

Nice analogy but unfortunately its off the mark as far as Microsoft are concerned. If the Joe Bloggs Ltd was using software for the US Market he would, in the eyes of Microsoft & FAST, be classed as using unlicenced software. The sale may have been legitimate from the buyers point of view but neither MS or FAST would really give 2 hoots.

I spent 6 years as reseller and took quite a few MS licencing courses, and had some major clients for who I managed their licence agreements etc.

I'll admit to having been out of the software industry for past 3 years but I seriously doubt things have changed with regards to areas of distribution and EULAs etc.

If you want to break in to the software market I can point you in the direction of traders who supply software for EMEA areas which is what, again in the eyes of Microsoft, you should be selling in the UK.

In Microsofts eyes I have no doubt that is the case. But can they actually enforce this, can they remove the licence to use the software because a user moves overseas for example?

This is what I am yet to be convinced of - one way or the other.

 

[MikeD08]

In Microsofts eyes I have no doubt that is the case. But can they actually enforce this, can they remove the licence to use the software because a user moves overseas for example?

This is what I am yet to be convinced of - one way or the other.

Hmmm, good question. That's a slightly different scenario and I'm sure that the particular section of the EULA would not apply if you were to move country. I'm basing this on the fact that the EULA allows installation of the software on 1 desktop and 1x laptop, the theory being that 1 user will not be using both devices at the same time. Therefore if Joe Bloggs was to travel from the UK to the USA and use his latop there then his licence would still be valid as his main place of business is the UK, that is where he is predominantly based and that is where the source was legitmately sourced (and intended for EMEA use).

If he was to move to the USA on a permanent basis Microsoft should make an allowance for this.

 

[citizen_erased]

This is so confusing, how is everyone tonight?

 

[movietub]

Hmmm, good question. That's a slightly different scenario and I'm sure that the particular section of the EULA would not apply if you were to move country. I'm basing this on the fact that the EULA allows installation of the software on 1 desktop and 1x laptop, the theory being that 1 user will not be using both devices at the same time. Therefore if Joe Bloggs was to travel from the UK to the USA and use his latop there then his licence would still be valid as his main place of business is the UK, that is where he is predominantly based and that is where the source was legitmately sourced (and intended for EMEA use).

If he was to move to the USA on a permanent basis Microsoft should make an allowance for this.

And so long as a legitimate situation exists in which it would not be in the public interest to enforce part of the user agreement, then that part of the agreement can be struck.

So far no cases found in which MS has taken action against anyone distributing, on a resale basis, outside the softwares marked distribution area.

There are however cases in which MS has stopped dealing with primary distributors for this practice, the distributors have tried to build a case against MS for price fixing and product zoning. Doesn't look like anyone succeeded!

In other words MS starts the supply chain using only distributors they trust. After that their wishes cannot be enforced.

The bottom line is that nothing they can put on their packaging or in their UELA makes it illegal to ship and resell the product anywhere in the world.

Or so it seems so far...

 

[citizen_erased]

And so long as a legitimate situation exists in which it would not be in the public interest to enforce part of the user agreement, then that part of the agreement can be struck.

So far no cases found in which MS has taken action against anyone distributing, on a resale basis, outside the softwares marked distribution area.

There are however cases in which MS has stopped dealing with primary distributors for this practice, the distributors have tried to build a case against MS for price fixing and product zoning. Doesn't look like anyone succeeded!

In other words MS starts the supply chain using only distributors they trust. After that their wishes cannot be enforced.

The bottom line is that nothing they can put on their packaging or in their UELA makes it illegal to ship and resell the product anywhere in the world.

Or so it seems so far...

I agree with that, is everything okay now?

 

[MikeD08]

And so long as a legitimate situation exists in which it would not be in the public interest to enforce part of the user agreement, then that part of the agreement can be struck.

So far no cases found in which MS has taken action against anyone distributing, on a resale basis, outside the softwares marked distribution area.

There are however cases in which MS has stopped dealing with primary distributors for this practice, the distributors have tried to build a case against MS for price fixing and product zoning. Doesn't look like anyone succeeded!

In other words MS starts the supply chain using only distributors they trust. After that their wishes cannot be enforced.

The bottom line is that nothing they can put on their packaging or in their UELA makes it illegal to ship and resell the product anywhere in the world.

Or so it seems so far...

Really? How about this......

http://www.scmagazineuk.com/Microso...-intellectual-property-rights/article/126483/

I'd hate to see either of you fall foul of Microsofts 'law' but please trust me when I say you are both putting yourselves in a precarious situation.