Securing a Limited Company Name

[ttmw]

I'd like to secure a limited company name for future use, i have a company already (ran as a sole trader) but want to secure the name now so i don't have trouble in future when everything gets bigger.

As i understand i can register the name and run it as 'dormant' to save the name for a when i need it, and when the business is ready to be moved to a LTD company.

I've searched the companies house website and the name is there but it says it's 'Dissolved'.

Is it possible to save this name as i've said above, are there any pitfalls or problems doing this, and what does the 'dissolved' actually mean?

Thanks in advance

 

[Robert Pearce]

At some point in the past, someone else set up a company using this name but the company has now been struck off, hence the 'dissolved' status. You're free to set up a dormant company with this name. Your company will be given a different company number so it won't be associated with the former company of the same name.

 

[ttmw]

So i can go ahead as normal and register the company for future use, without being associated or liable for any previous debts or similar?

 

[Frictiontech]

So i can go ahead as normal and register the company for future use, without being associated or liable for any previous debts or similar?

Yep, thats it

 

[ttmw]

Great! Next step then...how do i go about registering that name. I've had a quick look around just now and some seem to suggest getting somebody else to do it for me (at a cost, which i'd prefer to avoid) or do it via companies house 'Companies House web incorporation service'.

Is there much to completing the online forms and information? Whats the normal procedure?

 

[kulture]

So i can go ahead as normal and register the company for future use, without being associated or liable for any previous debts or similar?

Whilst legally this is certainly true, if the company built up a bad reputation it may still have it. Do a quick google search on the name and see if there are any bad reviews of it.

 

[Robert Pearce]

Great! Next step then...how do i go about registering that name. I've had a quick look around just now and some seem to suggest getting somebody else to do it for me (at a cost, which i'd prefer to avoid) or do it via companies house 'Companies House web incorporation service'.

Is there much to completing the online forms and information? Whats the normal procedure?

There are some formation agents that will register a company for free as long as the company signs up to a particular bank account but that may not be appropriate if you only wish to set up a dormant company. The Companies House service involves a fee of £18 but, if you search google, you'll find formation agents who will do a basic e-formation for around the same price.

 

[ttmw]

Is it worth me avoiding doing it myself then? £18 is fine if it's simple enough for me to do?

 

[Robert Pearce]

Incorporating a company is reasonably straightforward but, to be honest, I'd use a formation agent as it's less hassle and it'll save you time.

 

[Kevh1981]

You need to be careful here, just because a company has been dissolved does not mean that you are free to use the name. If another company or individual owns a trademark which is the same as or similar to the name you wish to use, you may be infringing upon that trademark. This could result in you being sued for damage.

I would strongly recommend speaking to a trademark attorney and requesting a clearance search to ensure you are free to use the business name. If you are and it is non descriptive of the goods or services you plan to offer, it would be advisable to register the trademark of the name yourself to prevent anyone else using the name.

If you need any assistance please contact me, I work for Loven Patents and Trademarks.

Kind Regards

Kevin Hanson

 

[ttmw]

Hi,

I've already put in for the name now through a formation agent, which will go through tomorrow morning if all is ok i guess. Will companies house not pick up on any problems like this, and if not, what's an estimation of the cost for the services you mentioned?

 

[Kevh1981]

Unfortunately not, companies house have no involvement with trademarks. I will private message you in the morning with an idea of costs for a clearance search but I would need more info for a quote for registration.

Kind Regards

Kevin Hanson

 

[Trademarkroom]

Dear ttmw

Registering your name at Companies House and with the UK IPO are two completely different things and just because one is available does not mean it is free to use.

It is best to obtain a trade mark search and advice report (otherwise known as clearence searches) to give you an idea of what is already 'out there'. This reduces the risk of you using a trade mark that is too confusingly similar to another and/or filing a mark which flags up other regsitered trade marks who will then be informed of your application. A search and advice report will also tell you whether your mark can actually function as a trade mark (laws do apply). This is useful as UK IPO fees are non refundable.

A registered trade mark is the best form of protection you can get to give you the sole right to use your mark and prevent others from using it without your consent.

 

[ttmw]

Whats the cost of these things? Are there any estimates you could give me for the different reports and searches?

Thank

 

[Trademarkroom]

Dear ttmw

If ok with you I will send you a private message.

 

[TODonnell]

One of my staff registered a trademark for himself some years ago. A few hundred quid. It was to stop others using this particular name in their Google adwords ads. Relatively painless, you can 'Do-It-Yourself'. (My two pence.)

 

[ttmw]

Thanks.The cost of paying to get somebody else is a little too much for me to do at the moment, but doing it myself might be an option. How would i go about it myself, and what would be the cost of doing it that way?

 

[webstore]

Hi [FONT=verdana, geneva, lucida, arial]ttmw[/FONT]

On the basis that you secure your required limited liability company name with Companies House and on the basis that name might be descriptive of the goods and/or services you provide then don't forget to buy / register a matching / similar .co.uk domain name (without a hypen) if you are just going to be selling in the UK and/or .com if you are looking for an say selling in the US market.

You should buy the domain in your own name and with your own money if your company is to remain dormant and you could readily put up a holding page or do nothing with your domain.

Ideally your domain name should be based on keywords surfers are most likely to key in looking for a company such as yours.

We were lucky when we registered Web-Store Ltd in '96. We were able to secure webstore.co.uk We also have web-store.co.uk but in our experience hyphenated domains are not so good in Google these days so we don't use web-store.co.uk much now.
.

 

[ttmw]

Hi [FONT=verdana, geneva, lucida, arial]ttmw[/FONT]

On the basis that you secure your required limited liability company name with Companies House and on the basis that name might be descriptive of the goods and/or services you provide then don't forget to buy / register a matching / similar .co.uk domain name (without a hypen) if you are just going to be selling in the UK and/or .com if you are looking for an say selling in the US market.

You should buy the domain in your own name and with your own money if your company is to remain dormant and you could readily put up a holding page or do nothing with your domain.

Ideally your domain name should be based on keywords surfers are most likely to key in looking for a company such as yours.

We were lucky when we registered Web-Store Ltd in '96. We were able to secure webstore.co.uk We also have web-store.co.uk but in our experience hyphenated domains are not so good in Google these days so we don't use web-store.co.uk much now.
.

I have the .co.uk already, but does it make any difference to my trademark situation legally or are you just trying to get your links everywhere you can?

 

[webstore]

I have the .co.uk already, but does it make any difference to my trademark situation legally or are you just trying to get your links everywhere you can?

Unfortunately the issuing of limited company names; trademarks and domain names are all dealt with separate standalone organisations the first two being government departments and domains through various companies. So each one has to be dealt with separately and of which there is no relationship between each one. As you may know the starting point for trademarks is ipo.gov.uk/tm.htm

Just because you get your ideal company name there's NO guarantee that you are going to get your desired trade mark.

Regarding website links yes you need to try and get these out there in as many legitimate places as possible. Its the same as if you were going to a networking meeting - you would want to touch base with as many people as possible to tell them about your new business.
.

 

[ttmw]

Unfortunately the issuing of limited company names; trademarks and domain names are all dealt with separate standalone organisations the first two being government departments and domains through various companies. So each one has to be dealt with separately and of which there is no relationship between each one. As you may know the starting point for trademarks is ipo.gov.uk/tm.htm

Just because you get your ideal company name there's NO guarantee that you are going to get your desired trade mark.

Regarding website links yes you need to try and get these out there in as many legitimate places as possible. Its the same as if you were going to a networking meeting - you would want to touch base with as many people as possible to tell them about your new business.
.

"or are YOU just trying to get your links everywhere you can?"

I'm sure you mean well, but you seem to be filling this thread with useless info to get your links all over the place. Leave answers to people who know what they're saying please, don't devalue the forum.

 

[Trademarkroom]

Dear ttmw

Your domain ownership will have no bearing on your trade mark status. Yes you can file the mark yourself. Check out the UK IPO website there is a wealth of free information. This is also the place where you can apply to register your trade mark. It will cost you £170.00 plus £50.00 for each classification above 1. There is also the right start application which can be helpful if you are unsure that your mark is going to be successful, this costs £200.00 in total but you only pay half to start with and then the remainder if your mark passes the examination report.

Best of luck

 

[Trademarkroom]

Hi ttmw

How did you get on?

 

[Nathanto]

you seem to be filling this thread with useless info to get your links all over the place. Leave answers to people who know what they're saying please, don't devalue the forum.

I thought webstore's posts in this thread were relevant, interesting and insightful to a startup company.

I'm quite shocked by your comment that it was "useless info". :|

 

[mauahmed]

Before securing any company name everyone should do a trade mark search on www.ipo.gov.uk. This cost nothing if you know what you are doing. A specialist will charge you around £50 for their time. But yes tade mark search is very useful for avoiding future infringements. Take care.

 

[ttmw]

Hi ttmw

How did you get on?

Sorry for the late, reply, i've been doing a lot of reading on the matter and the ipo website online form has been down for the weekend.

I'm now stuck on another issue with it. My website and business name is "whatIsell Direct"... and from the 'essential reading' guide it gives an example of 'toys direct' not being acceptable because:

"'Direct' describes goods or services sold directly to the
public and is widely used by traders. The fact that, for
example, the kind of goods being sold is included in the
mark does not help."

But i see 'sports direct' and other similar tradmarks listed on a quick search on the ipo website, so how come these get a trade mark, is it only on their attached logo, i dont get it?

Thanks

 

[Trademarkroom]

Dear ttmw

It is complicated, I agree!

However generally it is best to avoid trade marks that are descriptive of the goods or services on offer.

A prefix or a suffix can help to make it distinct and unique to you- made up words are the best. Logos also add to a mark's distinctiveness.

It is frustrating when you see a mark that has been regsitered that is descriptive. This does reflect the subjective nature of trade mark law. It may also indicate that the mark has 'aquired distinctiveness through use'. This means that the particluar brand has been in use for 5 years or more and has built a sufficent reputation to be recognised in the market place.

The UK IPO's right start application can help if you are unsure. You pay half the money up front and the remainder only if your mark passes the examination stage ( approximatley 10 days).

 

[ttmw]

Dear ttmw

It is complicated, I agree!

However generally it is best to avoid trade marks that are descriptive of the goods or services on offer.

A prefix or a suffix can help to make it distinct and unique to you- made up words are the best. Logos also add to a mark's distinctiveness.

It is frustrating when you see a mark that has been regsitered that is descriptive. This does reflect the subjective nature of trade mark law. It may also indicate that the mark has 'aquired distinctiveness through use'. This means that the particluar brand has been in use for 5 years or more and has built a sufficent reputation to be recognised in the market place.

The UK IPO's right start application can help if you are unsure. You pay half the money up front and the remainder only if your mark passes the examination stage ( approximatley 10 days).

Well i have a nice logo to put with the trade mark, but will this make it acceptable?

As for the right start application, if it's not accepted can i make changes to help it go through? I don't want to waste the £100 if the example 'toys direct' is unacceptable.

I'm not sure where i can go from here really...?

 

[Trademarkroom]

No changes cannot be made.

Due to the subjective nature of trade mark law I cannot give you a definitive answer. All I can say is that a logo will certainly increase its chances of success.

 

[ttmw]

Do i need to describe the trade mark aspects of the logo, and if my application did go through with the logo, would the trademark cover just my logo, or the name as well? Thanks for your advice so far btw, it's been a huge help

 

[Trademarkroom]

Dear ttmw

Not sure what you mean by: describe the trade mark aspects of the logo.

The best protection is to trade mark what you are going to use. If your logo is an integral part of your brand and will be with you for the next ten years then file the words and the device (logo).

If you think of big companies like Nike- they have deep pockets and can afford to pay for Nike alone, Nike and the tick (device) and the tick alone. This means they are protected for any combination of possible trade mark infringement.

Yes there is a risk that if you file the device and word elements together someone could try and file each of these separately. But for now if money is tight and you are worried about your mark being too descriptive then maybe it is best to file your whole mark as this is your brand and how you will be recognised.

Remember this advice is limited as I only have limited information!

 

[ttmw]

Dear ttmw

Not sure what you mean by: describe the trade mark aspects of the logo.

The best protection is to trade mark what you are going to use. If your logo is an integral part of your brand and will be with you for the next ten years then file the words and the device (logo).

If you think of big companies like Nike- they have deep pockets and can afford to pay for Nike alone, Nike and the tick (device) and the tick alone. This means they are protected for any combination of possible trade mark infringement.

Yes there is a risk that if you file the device and word elements together someone could try and file each of these separately. But for now if money is tight and you are worried about your mark being too descriptive then maybe it is best to file your whole mark as this is your brand and how you will be recognised.

Remember this advice is limited as I only have limited information!

My logo contains the '**** direct' text. So if i put in a trade mark for the logo with that text present, are they likely to refuse it on that basis? And if it does go through, will that mean i have a trademark on the name '**** direct' also?

 

[Trademarkroom]

Dear ttmw

You will gain trade mark protection for what is successfully registered. As I mentioned previously the best form of protection is to file both word only and word and device this should counteract all forms of possible infringement.

This is often too expensive so its best to file in your case what has a better chance of being accepted- word and logo if it is descriptive.

There is the risk that someone could use your word only trade mark and claim that it is not the same but this would be difficult if you had a regsitered trade mark. You may also gain some comfort in the fact that if you could not register it- then it is unlikey that a third party will either!

If this is the name you really want then you might have to bite the bullet and go for it; and I know that is easy for me to say as it is not my money. ALso please remember this is general advice.

I hope this helps

 

[ttmw]

Dear ttmw

You will gain trade mark protection for what is successfully registered. As I mentioned previously the best form of protection is to file both word only and word and device this should counteract all forms of possible infringement.

This is often too expensive so its best to file in your case what has a better chance of being accepted- word and logo if it is descriptive.

There is the risk that someone could use your word only trade mark and claim that it is not the same but this would be difficult if you had a regsitered trade mark. You may also gain some comfort in the fact that if you could not register it- then it is unlikey that a third party will either!

If this is the name you really want then you might have to bite the bullet and go for it; and I know that is easy for me to say as it is not my money. ALso please remember this is general advice.

I hope this helps

Ok, i'm going to go ahead anyway i think. I've gone through the application, and it asks to provide one of the following:

"If the mark consists only of a word or words in plain type, enter it into box A"

or

"If the mark is a word or words shown in a particular style and/or a logo, press Browse and upload a JPEG or TIFF file into box B."

From what i've gathered from your advice so far, i need to add both? There is an option for a "Series of marks" where i can add both but it's only for very similar marks, such as 'the first mark being a word in upper case and the second mark being the same word in lower case'. Is this the section where i should add both (text & logo) or do i just add the logo that contains the text?

 

[Trademarkroom]

Dear ttmw

Please remember that my advice is only based on limited information. I would always advise seeking professional help and providing all the information when dealing with legal matters.

That said if you want to protect your logo as well then you will need to upload it by clicking the browse button. Your application has to go through the examination process and success is in no way guaranteed.

 

[anna_idsltd]

Great! Next step then...how do i go about registering that name. I've had a quick look around just now and some seem to suggest getting somebody else to do it for me (at a cost, which i'd prefer to avoid) or do it via companies house 'Companies House web incorporation service'.

Is there much to completing the online forms and information? Whats the normal procedure?

I have opened Ltd companies a couple of times and both times used Duport. Get the basic package which only costs £65.00 to reserve a name only but, that is £65 per year. If you register the company the basic pack is £79, it will be done and dusted and you can declare the company as not yet trading.

The other good thing about Duport is that it will check the availability of the company name before you even begin to register and therefore you don't waste any money

http://www.duport.co.uk/company-formation/