Schedule of Dilapidations

[les78]

Just had a nasty bill from an ex Landlord. Has anyone had any experience in this as the bill seems to be hughly inflated eg £30 to clean some oil off an internal door!!! £2200 to paint externally where there is nothing to paint.

Is the landlord just trying it on?

I hope someone can point me in the right direction.

 

[deniser]

Are you still within your lease term or has it expired/been terminated?

 

[les78]

We were in a 15 year lease with 5 year break clauses. The first 5 years came and and we gave our 6 months notice. The 5 years ended in March 2010

 

[deniser]

Unless there is anything to the contrary in your lease, you must leave the property in good condition, regardless of how you found it, so that it is ready for a new tenant to move into.

So on vacating, the tenant will probably decorate the premises with white paint, lay a new carpet, carry out any repairs etc.

If they don't, then the landlord has the right to make a schedule of dilapidations listing the work required and charge you the reasonable cost. Once your lease has ended you have no control over the cost of the work which is why you should really do it yourself before vacating. It is very hard to argue that the cost is unreasonable even if you could have done it cheaper yourself.

Your only defence to paying the bill is if the landlord has found/finds a tenant who is happy to take the premises are they are in which case the landlord can't charge the dilaps to you.

 

[Hombre]

Depends on the total amount claimed and where the premises are located i.e. Scotland or England & Wales. It may be necessary to appoint a chartered building surveyor to act for you here. At the very least I would have an initial discussion and fee quote. That said, now the lease is over, the landlord could have difficulty in claiming the sums due from you however it depends on whether English or Scots Law is applicable and indeed the terms of the lease...at the very least you will need legal advice from a suitably qualified commercial property solicitor.

 

[les78]

Depends on the total amount claimed and where the premises are located i.e. Scotland or England & Wales. It may be necessary to appoint a chartered building surveyor to act for you here. At the very least I would have an initial discussion and fee quote. That said, now the lease is over, the landlord could have difficulty in claiming the sums due from you however it depends on whether English or Scots Law is applicable and indeed the terms of the lease...at the very least you will need legal advice from a suitably qualified commercial property solicitor.

Thanks for the reply. The property in question is in England, would that make it difficult for the landlord in claiming sums from us? This is a bill we cannot afford to pay and is hughly over-inflated in my opinion.

 

[Hombre]

Sorry, can't comment on English Law situation. Would still speak with a comm prop solicitor first. FWIW, in Scotland, in general the lease dictates the situation.

 

[*Lexxy*]

Unless there is anything to the contrary in your lease, you must leave the property in good condition, regardless of how you found it, so that it is ready for a new tenant to move into.

So on vacating, the tenant will probably decorate the premises with white paint, lay a new carpet, carry out any repairs etc.

OP, was this stipulated in your lease? if so, did you do it?

 

[Michael Gerard]

In my experience, the LL will probably be trying it on.

You may have a full repairing lease as opposed to just putting the building back to the same condition you found it in. Such leases are quite often used by LL's as an opportunity to profit, especially if you have just walked away from the lease without attempting to repair the building and hand the same over to the LL or its agents - and if this is your situation then you are in a weaker position, but it is salvageable.

What the LL has now done is listed the delaps and estimated the cost. This is not the same as actual cost. Hombre is correct insofar that you should engage a surveyor to firstly verify the list is correct (the number of times I have inspected buildings where the defect is non-existant!), and then estimate the cost of likely repair or better still, actually get an estimate from a builder. Once you are armed with this, you can then start your negotiations with the LL.

But be carefull, if the claim is less than £10,000, it may not be economical to engage a surveyor, but only you can judge the potential saving.

 

[Paul Norman]

This is completely normal, upon vacation of a commerical property.

You can, and should, attempt to contest excess costs, but you are almost certainly obliged to return the property in 'ready to go' condition.

 

[Cobby]

We had this some years ago even though we left the premises in good condition, the bill still came and also included work done on our flat above the premises. We ended up paying it.

 

[MartCactus]

We got hit with quite a high one when we moved offices within the same building. Fortunately the landlord was keen for us to move 6 months before our lease expires so another tenant could take our old office, so a deal was done.

A colleague was once hit with a similar large charge in a private flat he was renting. I'm aware the law and contract differs on a private lease, but in that case I told him to ask for documentary evidence of the costs the landlord claimed (eg he was claiming for "professional cleaners" so he asked for a copy of the invoice).

Miraculously the landlord offers to accept a much reduced payment that my colleague didn't consider unreasonable.

Perhaps its worth asking for copies of the cleaning and other invoices for the costs they are claiming?

 

[les78]

Being a landlord and a tenant myself I believe the property is in a 'ready to go' state.

There are alot of jobs in the schedule of dilapidations which I could easily do myself. Will I be allowed by the landlord to carry this work out?

We have employed a surveyor to look through the lease and schedule of dilapidations and should know more on Friday. Hopefully we should be ok with just him and that we don't have to start seeing solicitors.

 

[*Lexxy*]

so, when leaving, will taking photo's of the place in a good state of repair/decoration carry any weight?

 

[deniser]

so, when leaving, will taking photo's of the place in a good state of repair/decoration carry any weight?

No. You need to address this point before you take the lease.

OP, what does your repairing clause say?

1. To repair and maintain the Premises in good and substantial repair and condition or
2. [as above] plus "provided however that the Tenant need not put the Premises into a better state of repair and condition than they were at the date of this Lease as evidenced by the annexed Schedule of Condition"

or something along those lines.

If you were properly advised at the outset then it would be the second option with any luck unless you were given a reduced rent, cash sum, long rent free period etc. to offset the cost of any repair works.

 

[*Lexxy*]

No. You need to address this point before you take the lease.

sorry, i obviously didn't ask the question in the right way. i meant, if you've already taken a lease that states to 'paint & leave in a good state of repair etc.', would photo's help in proving you'd done what was stated?

 

[termsandconditions]

Just had a nasty bill from an ex Landlord. Has anyone had any experience in this as the bill seems to be hughly inflated eg £30 to clean some oil off an internal door!!! £2200 to paint externally where there is nothing to paint.

Is the landlord just trying it on?

I hope someone can point me in the right direction.

Yes, the landlord is trying it on; it's usual behaviour at the end of a full repairing lease.

Negotiate like crazy and offer to do some of the agreed dilapidations if necessary.

Best Regards

 

[Cathy]

Had this happen a few years ago. Wrote back to the Landlord's solicitor saying that we believed that we had met all our obligations under the terms of our lease and that we assumed that if his client wished to pursue it further he would be following the principles of the Pre-Action Protocol (which he clearly wasn't and the solicitor seemed unaware of!)

Never heard another word, though a lot of research in the meantime meant that I was quite disappointed not to be able to take it further. (In this particular case, not the least of which was that I discovered that the Landlord had planning permission to convert the property to residential use, which would almost certainly have rendered his inflated claim completely without merit anyway!)

 

[les78]

Ok, so we are seeing a surveyor tomorrow to help us with the negotiations and point in the right direction.

However we have found a discrepancy in the lease where the date of the tenancy ran from 7th March 2005 to 7th March 2010, but the date of the lease is the 8th April 2005. I have read various articles on the internet saying there is a recommended 56 days to issue a schedule of conditions. Would there be any weight in this if they are over this 56 days? And are they over the 56 days (the schedule of conditions was issued on the 4th June 2010).

From 7/03/10 to 4/06/10 = 88 days
From 8/04/10 to 4/06/10 = 57 days

 

[lawyerlou]

les78,

it is quite usual to have a 'discrepancy' between the date of the lease (i.e. the date that legal completion took place) and the term of the lease. This might occur, for example, where you were allowed into occupation prior to completion.

It would be useful to see the repairing clauses in your lease.

As advised above, you may well wish to contest the total amount and you are taking the necessary steps by appointing a surveyor. I am not sure where you have seen the 56 days referred to, as a time limit for serving such a Schedule.

Let me know if you need any help once your surveyor has given an initial opinion.

 

[kayakcrazy]

Hello

Ive also just had a Dilapidations report mine is for £40,000
my lease end date is 12th August i am still in the lease I have a friend who got one 3 years ago for £38,0000 (a report)

After trying to offer landlord £5000.00 he actually did all the work himself for less than £3000 and the land lord passed the work, The unit has never been rented since and they are about to knock it down Landlords for you eh!!

Im not sure of the legalities but I believe you should have been given a chance to put right what was damaged without incurring horrendous costs.