Sales/Marketing freelance work

[marlint]

Hi all,

I'm looking for someone to work with me on Sales/Marketing for my business.

We have software that find closer driving tests for learner drivers. We already do a healthy volume of sales, and after an initial surge of growth, are slowly growing every year.

Our main issue is that most learner drivers and driving instructors don't know about us, so although we do pretty well from word of mouth, and internet, I think there's a lot more potential there.

Ideally I'd like someone to come in and launch run and execute a campaign targeting the aforementioned groups. Pay would be on a generous commission basis.

If you know your stuff, this is probably something you could do in a few hours a week of your free time, as a great way to make some extra cash.

Please PM me if interested, or reply to thread with any questions.

Thank you!

 

[InternetMarketingPlatinum]

Hi all,

I'm looking for someone to work with me on Sales/Marketing for my business.

We have software that find closer driving tests for learner drivers. We already do a healthy volume of sales, and after an initial surge of growth, are slowly growing every year.

Our main issue is that most learner drivers and driving instructors don't know about us, so although we do pretty well from word of mouth, and internet, I think there's a lot more potential there.

Ideally I'd like someone to come in and launch run and execute a campaign targeting the aforementioned groups. Pay would be on a generous commission basis.

If you know your stuff, this is probably something you could do in a few hours a week of your free time, as a great way to make some extra cash.

Please PM me if interested, or reply to thread with any questions.

Thank you!

No good salesperson will work for commission only trust me and a poor sales person could damage your business.

 

[XanderMarketing]

Hi all,

I'm looking for someone to work with me on Sales/Marketing for my business.

We have software that find closer driving tests for learner drivers. We already do a healthy volume of sales, and after an initial surge of growth, are slowly growing every year.

Our main issue is that most learner drivers and driving instructors don't know about us, so although we do pretty well from word of mouth, and internet, I think there's a lot more potential there.

Ideally I'd like someone to come in and launch run and execute a campaign targeting the aforementioned groups. Pay would be on a generous commission basis.

If you know your stuff, this is probably something you could do in a few hours a week of your free time, as a great way to make some extra cash.

Please PM me if interested, or reply to thread with any questions.

Thank you!

I'm sure there are many agencies and freelancers that could help you (including us) however why are you looking to go down a few hours a week/extra cash route? Why not be more professional in what you are looking for and do it properly?

You are unlikely to find anyone to do this for you on a commission basis, and if you would I would question their worth.

If you've got a great product and you believe that spending £x in marketing will give you £y in sales and Y is higher than X then why not spend that on marketing? You could start in one county or region and if that works scale that to be nationwide.

 

Hi all,

I'm looking for someone to work with me on Sales/Marketing for my business.

We have software that find closer driving tests for learner drivers. We already do a healthy volume of sales, and after an initial surge of growth, are slowly growing every year.

Our main issue is that most learner drivers and driving instructors don't know about us, so although we do pretty well from word of mouth, and internet, I think there's a lot more potential there.

Ideally I'd like someone to come in and launch run and execute a campaign targeting the aforementioned groups. Pay would be on a generous commission basis.

If you know your stuff, this is probably something you could do in a few hours a week of your free time, as a great way to make some extra cash.

Please PM me if interested, or reply to thread with any questions.

Thank you!

May I just add, ahahahah

Are you serious?

Come in and work for you for free and take all the risk and prepare the campaign from zip to workable .... great way to make cash!

Seriously read that back to yourself!

 

[Ashley_Price]

Why not be more professional in what you are looking for and do it properly?

I have to agree with this statement. Your post makes it sound like you want a highly professional person to "launch run and execute a campaign targeting the aforementioned groups." which would take some time to set up, etc. This would probably be a full time role until everything was up and running smoothly.

But you go on to say "If you know your stuff, this is probably something you could do in a few hours a week of your free time, as a great way to make some extra cash."

Any half-decent salesman isn't going to be needing to make "some extra cash". If they're that good, then their free time is probably taken up with spending their commission from their full time sales job. Besides, if they need some extra cash they can just sell more of what they're already hired to sell.

 

[S-Marketing]

I do a lot of work based on a results based fee structure. All that is required is that I am a damn site better than all those who shout about commission only work being for mugs. Luckily for me, I am.

Obviously I am careful about which jobs I take on, and also insist on being paid for a day to research the business, the market, and its competitors, to make sure its viable first, but then it's results based fees all the way.

Working in this way (if you are good enough) is massively more profitable than the alternatives.

 

[telemax]

I do a lot of work based on a results based fee structure. All that is required is that I am a damn site better than all those who shout about commission only work being for mugs. Luckily for me, I am.

Obviously I am careful about which jobs I take on, and also insist on being paid for a day to research the business, the market, and its competitors, to make sure its viable first, but then it's results based fees all the way.

Working in this way (if you are good enough) is massively more profitable than the alternatives.

Before I would take on ANY commision only work such as this I would insist on seeing the company's financials and number of unit sales. I would need to reassure myself that I won't be the mug selling someone's product that they can't even sell, or be left unpaid because of lack of cashflow.

 

[telemax]

Hi all,

I'm looking for someone to work with me on Sales/Marketing for my business.

We have software that find closer driving tests for learner drivers. We already do a healthy volume of sales, and after an initial surge of growth, are slowly growing every year.

Our main issue is that most learner drivers and driving instructors don't know about us, so although we do pretty well from word of mouth, and internet, I think there's a lot more potential there.

Ideally I'd like someone to come in and launch run and execute a campaign targeting the aforementioned groups. Pay would be on a generous commission basis.

If you know your stuff, this is probably something you could do in a few hours a week of your free time, as a great way to make some extra cash.

Please PM me if interested, or reply to thread with any questions.

Thank you!

There are company's that spend millions on employees, Tradeshows, cars and travel in order to bring a new software package to market and still don't succeed. Why do people think that it can all be done for nowt?

 

[samjohnsonsbd]

hi, can we use telemarketing to sell your software ?

 

[paulstewart64]

There are good arguments both ways here.

I think Stretchy has hit the biggest point. A good salesperson will work for commision only, but it better be good because they are not interested in small change. A salesperson who must have a basic will struggle to outshine a sales superstar on commission only. But, you do need to consider paying somebody something for their time and effort to learn about your product.

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

I do a lot of work based on a results based fee structure. All that is required is that I am a damn site better than all those who shout about commission only work being for mugs. Luckily for me, I am.

Obviously I am careful about which jobs I take on, and also insist on being paid for a day to research the business, the market, and its competitors, to make sure its viable first, but then it's results based fees all the way.

Working in this way (if you are good enough) is massively more profitable than the alternatives.

As I'm sure you've also found yourself, requiring a fixed payment to conduct research before the commission based payments start usually weeds out the time wasting businesses which aren't taking it seriously enough and aren't willing to back you with what you need to do the job.

 

[cucumber]

I do a lot of work based on a results based fee structure. All that is required is that I am a damn site better than all those who shout about commission only work being for mugs. Luckily for me, I am.

Obviously I am careful about which jobs I take on, and also insist on being paid for a day to research the business, the market, and its competitors, to make sure its viable first, but then it's results based fees all the way.

Working in this way (if you are good enough) is massively more profitable than the alternatives.

What exactly is "results based fee structure"? What shape and form is that?

Also, what about upfront costs? Obviously you're doing your work upfront and only going to get paid upon achieving results, but what about say, if your marketing plan includes an ad in some magazine?; obviously that kind of thing needs paying for upfront regardless of how successful the marketing is or not. Who pays for that?

 

This should be a discussion on

1 sales
2 marketing

These terms are not interchangeable!

 

[off and running]

Hi Marlint
Hope this post finds you well. I have been and ADI for about 18 years, so have many contacts in this field. I am interested in what you have to say on the short tests.
regards
Ray

 

[S-Marketing]

What exactly is "results based fee structure"? What shape and form is that?

Also, what about upfront costs? Obviously you're doing your work upfront and only going to get paid upon achieving results, but what about say, if your marketing plan includes an ad in some magazine?; obviously that kind of thing needs paying for upfront regardless of how successful the marketing is or not. Who pays for that?

No 2 clients are the same. Usually it would be ridiculous to expect a consultant who already offers a money back guarantee on his time, to also stump up the cash to give various ideas a go. This would essentially be me taking over the clients business, as they would be having absolutely no risk or input at all.

Like I said though, no 2 clients are the same. If a client wanted to work like that then it would be reflected in my negotiations for either a fixed cost on targets met, or some kind of percentage.

One client came to me and I gave him a price based on the fact that I would guarantee to him that he would make a certain amount of profit per month. He was just starting up a business, and had bills to pay, so I signed a contract guaranteeing his monthly income would cover his expenses. Now that is putting your money where your mouth is, is it not?

 

[telemax]

, so I signed a contract guaranteeing his monthly income would cover his expenses. Now that is putting your money where your mouth is, is it not?

How much due dilligence did you have to do to ensure that this would not be a complete and utter waste of your time? Just interested!!

 

[S-Marketing]

How much due dilligence did you have to do to ensure that this would not be a complete and utter waste of your time? Just interested!!

Obviously the terms of this contract were a little out of the ordinary. However, the guy was actually an ex employee of one of my businesses. I knew he was a grafter, and i knew the sector he was looking to work in, inside out and back to front. Added to that, he only needed to be sure of making about 1500 quid a month profit to cover his bills.

It was as much about giving a guy a break, as it was an opportunity for me to earn out of it.

I really just used it as an example of how every client is different.

 

[cucumber]

Thanks for the reply Stretchy.

No 2 clients are the same. Usually it would be ridiculous to expect a consultant who already offers a money back guarantee on his time, to also stump up the cash to give various ideas a go. This would essentially be me taking over the clients business, as they would be having absolutely no risk or input at all.

So the kind of deal you're offering, generally, am I right, is: You have your fees for this particular client, £x, which you establish upfront and which they pay upfront but are refunded if your marketing doesn't achieve some level of predefined success, eg maybe, x number of sales by such and such date. My immediate thought on that is, surely it should be some sort of sliding scale rather than being so binary; black and white? There's varying degrees of success, tiny, small, medium, large, off the scale large (although success going ballistic wouldn't be possible with a lot of business as they'd be a natural limit, like the business owner's time, unless they're willing to hire more people).

My current idea/version of results based fees (I'm thinking of doing something like this) is: First, normality of client's current sales needs establishing. If they haven't started up yet, that's zero. If they've already started and have some ongoing business then that'd be more tricky to establish - it'd need to be a prediction of what sales will be without this new marketing work being done. Anyway, so that norm is established somehow. Then, once the marketing work starts to be rolled out, makes contact with prospective customers, from then on any sales above the pre established norm level is considered extra thanks to the marketing work. And a pre agreed percentage of the extra, above the norm, sales would be my pay. And the time frame of this would be ongoing, indefinitely, unless either me or they choose to terminate the contract for whatever reason. If they terminate the contract then they don't get to keep and continue using the marketing work; it's not theirs any more (unless some other agreement is come to). If I terminate the contract then they get to keep using the work (unless some other agreement is come to). I'm imagining the marketing work being more like an ongoing process, a bit like they've hired a part time marketing person.

The third party upfront costs, eg ad placement, could be they pay all, or I pay all, or what I'm feeling is preferable, 50/50.

Then also, like your day's research fee, I'd charge an upfront small-ish amount.

One general problem I see is with results based pay for marketing work is: even good successful marketing tends to have an underlying subtle long-term positive effect. So being so sales results based may not be the best way to measure marketing unless it's allowed to be long term.

Another big worry/problem, with my above idea, is establishing the predicted level of future sales (referred to as the norm above) on which to base the calculation of extra sales due to marketing.

Be very interested in any comments/criticisms/possible issues with this idea from anyone.

Like I said though, no 2 clients are the same. If a client wanted to work like that then it would be reflected in my negotiations for either a fixed cost on targets met, or some kind of percentage.

Ah right, you mention percentage there which is what I was getting at with sliding scale above.

One client came to me and I gave him a price based on the fact that I would guarantee to him that he would make a certain amount of profit per month. He was just starting up a business, and had bills to pay, so I signed a contract guaranteeing his monthly income would cover his expenses. Now that is putting your money where your mouth is, is it not?

Right, thanks.

 

[cucumber]

My current idea/version of results based fees (I'm thinking of doing something like this) is: First, normality of client's current sales needs establishing. If they haven't started up yet, that's zero. If they've already started and have some ongoing business then that'd be more tricky to establish - it'd need to be a prediction of what sales will be without this new marketing work being done. Anyway, so that norm is established somehow. Then, once the marketing work starts to be rolled out, makes contact with prospective customers, from then on any sales above the pre established norm level is considered extra thanks to the marketing work. And a pre agreed percentage of the extra, above the norm, sales would be my pay. And the time frame of this would be ongoing, indefinitely, unless either me or they choose to terminate the contract for whatever reason. If they terminate the contract then they don't get to keep and continue using the marketing work; it's not theirs any more (unless some other agreement is come to). If I terminate the contract then they get to keep using the work (unless some other agreement is come to). I'm imagining the marketing work being more like an ongoing process, a bit like they've hired a part time marketing person.

Be very interested in any comments/criticisms/possible issues with this idea from anyone.

Anyone?

If you're a startup or small business owner is that a kind of deal you'd be interested in?

 

[S-Marketing]

Mr Cucumber,

I don't know what else I can tell you that will be of use. Your thought process hasn't got any obvious errors or holes in it as far as I can see.

Very few consultants do any kind of commission or results based work, usually because marketing consultants are usually pretty useless, and if they worked commission only they would starve to death.

I personally don't even like the term marketing consultant, as nobody who is looking for one even knows what marketing is. Even the Chartered Institute have started referring to marketing and business development, rather than just marketing.

If you are good at what you do, working on a results based fee opens doors that would normally remain firmly closed. You will get much more interesting work, and get to educate business owners along the way.

I have been chatting to a web designer from this forum on and off for months. Whenever he is a bit short of work he gets in touch, refers to a couple of my posts, and asks me if I could help him get more work. I tell him yes, and then he thinks about it for a few days and talks himself out of getting help. The reason we never close the deal is because he expects me to sell the idea to him, but I cant be bothered. The problem is, he has no idea what to expect from using my services, and for a couple of days money, I'm not going to waste my time explaining it to him. My point really is that you need to make sure that if you work on a results based fee structure, you make your offering completely clear, so you spend your time working and earning money, not acting as a salesman trying to persuade people to sign up. Equally, you need to separate the genuine leads from the time wasters early. That is really what the initial fee is all about. I even offered this guy help based on the idea that he would pay me for one day, and if it didn't generate more than it cost I would pass work to him for more than my fee. I still haven't heard back. Sometimes, even if you offered to pay someone to make them money they would still dither about not knowing what to do.

You are right about a sliding scale for fees. Working for a set fee per day is ok for the initial research, but you really deserve a piece of the action if you are working on results. Obviously this needs to be tailored to the business. Using the example above, I could generate enough work for the web guy to have 500 hours work per week, but what use is that to him? He works on his own, so instead I would concentrate the marketing plan around finding him the most lucrative work for him to spend his time on.

I specialise in marketing any business offering a service. This is a balancing act as too much work, or growth at too fast a pace, can kill a small business just as quickly as no work at all. Don't underestimate the responsibility that goes with messing with someone's business.

The problem with results based fees is that they are just that, results based. As you say, a lot of what I do will ensure that the business makes more money for years to come. Proper strategic marketing is always going to be like this, and there is very little you can do about it (unless you decide to be a pretend marketing consultant offering telemarketing, social media stuff, or help with advertising)

As far as predicting future unaided sales, its really down to experience and negotiation. The best method I have found is find out what level of income they would be happy with (as long as its realistic) and negotiate yourself a percentage over this amount. You do need to be pretty confident of your abilities to do that though.

The other thing you need to consider is the ability of the person you are going to be working with. Don't fall into the trap of working for people who are going to blame you for the failure of their business, even when they roll out of bed at 10 am to do a couple of hours before lunch. Clients need to deserve a results based fee.

Another thing you need to watch is not seeming too good to be true. A while ago we had a good discussion on here about dog walking businesses. I said that it is easy to make 30 grand a year as a dog walker, with no staff. Because everyone on the thread said it was nonsense (even the dogwalkers) I was seen as probably telling porkies. Now, I would be prepared to back that up with a results based fee for anyone who wanted to give it a go, but I have never been approached because it seems to good to be true. Sometimes you need to take the shine off of your offering a bit, in order for people to see the value in it.

I could go on about this all day, so should probably leave it there for now.

Sorry to waffle on, I hope somewhere in that lot is something of some use.

If you have any specific questions I'd be happy to help.

 

[cucumber]

Mr Stretchy,

I personally don't even like the term marketing consultant, as nobody who is looking for one even knows what marketing is.

Yup, also in addition to not knowing what marketing is fully, the word marketing for a lot of people has a whole lot of bad baggage attached to it (partly at least because of what you say "marketing consultants are usually pretty useless, and if they worked commission only they would starve to death" - I think a lot of small business people generally feel that from their perspective, which is if they hired a marketing person they'd lose out, lose money, not get any real value back)

Even the Chartered Institute have started referring to marketing and business development, rather than just marketing.

That's interesting.

If you are good at what you do, working on a results based fee opens doors that would normally remain firmly closed.

Yup, I think that's one of the main reasons I'm attracted to it. That, and the whole way it'll force work which works. Puts your money/time where your mouth is.

It's how some (most?) big ad agencies do it now apparently - they used to do it by commission - a percentage of the ad budget their client wants to spend. Procter and Gamble required this method of ad pay at some point a few years ago I believe. The way I understand it is, both parties provide a figure, which after a bit of backwards and forwards, both parties are happy with both figures together. The ad agency, how much pay they want (x). The client, how many Mars Bars, or whatever, they want to sell (y). Then the agency gets paid x/y for every Mars Bar sold. And there's the room for going over y as well. That'd be part of the contract. Not sure how media spend fits in though. Obviously the client would pay it. I guess that amount would be another number both parties would need to consider and agree on when working out x and y.

As far as predicting future unaided sales, its really down to experience and negotiation. The best method I have found is find out what level of income they would be happy with (as long as its realistic) and negotiate yourself a percentage over this amount. You do need to be pretty confident of your abilities to do that though.

Yup, this is one of my main weaknesses/worries I think.

Another thing you need to watch is not seeming too good to be true. A while ago we had a good discussion on here about dog walking businesses. I said that it is easy to make 30 grand a year as a dog walker, with no staff. Because everyone on the thread said it was nonsense (even the dogwalkers) I was seen as probably telling porkies. Now, I would be prepared to back that up with a results based fee for anyone who wanted to give it a go, but I have never been approached because it seems to good to be true. Sometimes you need to take the shine off of your offering a bit, in order for people to see the value in it.

Yup, I kind of thought of that already. I'm going to expect them to work on the marketing themselves, do a good bit of the work themselves, eg especially the research bit. So it's not so much me working for them, but us working together (for their customers). So it's not something someone could have a casual punt on without any commitment on their part. I'll have to work out a way of making that clear, even enforcing it somehow maybe.

I hope somewhere in that lot is something of some use.

Absolutely. Great.

If you have any specific questions I'd be happy to help.

Haven't right now, probably will though.

Great, thanks for that Stretchy.

If anyone else wants to comment on this general idea that'd be great.

 

[Taylerax22]

I have an idea that I want to get some professional sketches of before I go to CAD Drawings. I have several ideas that I'm looking to get down on paper. I am an inventor and I'm looking for someone I can build a business relationship with, someone I can call anytime when I have an idea and describe it to them and they will draw it out for me within a short period of time. I currently have a project for you.

Plz visit to see detail: officebuilders.com.au/

 

[TristanHeard]

Hi sorry I know this post is some what a little older but have just joined the site. I have worked over the last 8 years in business development and lead generation and last year was taken on direct by a client I used to first do lead generation for and then when I moved into an Business Development Managers role brought them on as a client before being taken on directly a year later with the benefit of working from home. sadly I have just been put at risk with 99.9% chance I will be being made redundant due to them no longer being able to offer a unique service offering and not being able to compete on price against larger companies offering similar services. So because I know I have some excellent core skills and very good at identifying an opportunity and getting our sales director sat in front of key decision makers I have decided to go freelance as a Business Development / Lead Generation service provider. Again because I will be home based as it is all telephone work I have minimal overheads which allows me to reflect this in what I will be charging. I will effectively charge a flat day rate and my client/s can decide how many days a week / month they want to use me. No contracts to tie them into just ask for a minimum 3 month trial period (this gives a good indication as to whether or not the projects is successful or needs tweaking and the potential success of a longer campaign) and 30 days notice to cancel.

Working in Lead Gen as an outsourced entity can be far more effective as long as they understand your product / service offerings, your target market, level of decision makers etc etc

So if you are still struggling then maybe it's an option, it's all about "opening doors" & "developing relationships" that's the key, nothing more and nothing less oh apart from it being a "numbers game"

 

[ashashash]

Have u thought of offering commission based pay for the first three months?