Sage "One Off" Invoices

[businessowner350]

Hi Everyone,

For our suppliers who we purchase regularly from, we create a supplier account in the Sage Supplier screen. When we receive an invoice from them, we click "Invoice" on the Supplier screen and add the invoice. When the money leaves our bank account, we use the "Make Payment" button on the Supplier screen.

This seems to work well for suppliers who we purchase regularly from, but what about "one offs"? Do we have to create an account for every single company/person we purchase something from? We could use the "Payment" feature in the Bank screen in Sage to make a payment directly from the bank account, but most of the time there is a discrepancy between when the "one off" invoice was generated, and when the money was actually taken from our bank account. As such, if we used the "Payment" button in the Bank screen, this could lead to issues with VAT returns and/or bank balance reconciliation.

Does anyone have any ideas on what I could do? What is generally done?

We're very new to sage so any help is very much appreciated.

Thanks

 

[Scalloway]

Do you mean you receive invoices then make payment at a later date? If that is the case you should still record the invoice then the payment separately. This is necessary so that your creditors at any given date are correct and you do not forget to pay someone. And your VAT and bank balances will be correct.

To simplify things I would sugget creating a supplier called something like Misc One Off Suppliers.

 

[businessowner350]

Do you mean you receive invoices then make payment at a later date? If that is the case you should still record the invoice then the payment separately. This is necessary so that your creditors at any given date are correct and you do not forget to pay someone. And your VAT and bank balances will be correct.

It's not so much that we intentionally pay at a later date, but more of the fact that payments tend to show on a bank statement later on. This applies to silly things such as buying a pen (with a company debit card) from a stationary shop, for example. The shop receipt will show a certain date, and the bank statement may show the payment a couple of days later, which may be in a different VAT period.

To simplify things I would sugget creating a supplier called something like Misc One Off Suppliers.

This seems like an excellent idea. However, is this what is done in industry? I just want to do things right

Thanks

 

[Scalloway]

Quite honestly using a card small items like a pen it is not worth the bother of posting an invoice then a payment. I thought you were meaning payments of hundreds of pounds. You have four years to reclaim VAT on goods so putting a small card payment on to the next quarter's VAT return is not going to cause you problems.

When I worked for my local authority they had a misc creditors account for this purpose.

 

[businessowner350]

Quite honestly using a card small items like a pen it is not worth the bother of posting an invoice then a payment. I thought you were meaning payments of hundreds of pounds. You have four years to reclaim VAT on goods so putting a small card payment on to the next quarter's VAT return is not going to cause you problems.

When I worked for my local authority they had a misc creditors account for this purpose.

Right, so it doesn't actually matter if the payment date is later than the receipt/invoice date, because I have four years to claim VAT back anyway?

Let's take an example:

We make a one-off purchase of £200 (£240 Inc VAT). The date of the invoice/receipt is 30th March, but it appears as a payment on the bank statement on 1st April (new VAT period). If our accounts staff just simply uses the "Payments" feature on the Bank screen in Sage, the date will be recorded as 1st April (as it's important to have the bank dates correct for reconciliation). However, the VAT will be reclaimed in the April - June period, even though the invoice was generated in the Jan - March period. Is this ok?

So is the bottom line, for one-off payments that tend to be paid immediately, just put them through as a payment on the Bank screen? However for delayed one-off payments, it's important to use a Misc Supplier so that I can say how much the business owes at a point in time?

Thanks

 

[Scalloway]

To all 4 questions - Yes

 

[businessowner350]

To all 4 questions - Yes

Thanks. I was always under the impression that the VAT had to be reclaimed in the same period the invoice was generated!

I actually have another question if you don't mind. Regarding Nominal Codes, is there a way to view the total Ex. VAT and VAT amounts for each? Everywhere I look, it only shows me total (Inc VAT) amounts.

Also, our business financial year is May 2010 to end of April 2012. That is the current year set up in Sage. Naturally, we are getting warning messages when we enter any invoices that we're out of current financial year. What do we do about this?

Our accounting has been a mess. We wanted to "start properly" from April 1st 2012 (to coincide with the start of the VAT period). I simply calculated all balances (on bank accounts, suppliers and customers) on Close of Business on 31st March 2012, and entered these as opening balances for April 1st 2012.

And finally, assuming that we are entering all invoices (supplier and customer) against the correct Nominal Code, do I just leave the Tax and depreciation calculations up to the accountant? I'm guessing I also had better keep a separate spreadsheet as an "Asset Register" so the account knows what was a sale to a customer, and what was bought for internal use...

Thanks (And sorry about all the questions, I really appreciate your help!)

 

[Scalloway]

Thanks. I was always under the impression that the VAT had to be reclaimed in the same period the invoice was generated!

No. you have 4 years

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channels...rtyType=document&id=HMCE_CL_000077#P119_12896

I actually have another question if you don't mind. Regarding Nominal Codes, is there a way to view the total Ex.

VAT and VAT amounts for each? Everywhere I look, it only shows me total (Inc VAT) amounts.

You should enter invoices with VAT code T1. That should be set up to calculate VAT at 20% automically. Your supplier code will show the amount due gross.

Also, our business financial year is May 2010 to end of April 2012. That is the current year set up in Sage. Naturally, we are getting warning messages when we enter any invoices that we're out of current financial year. What do we do about this?

Leave 2011/12 open Until you are ready to close it, ie you have posted all the entries and adjustments needed. There should be a check box on the warning pop up. If you click that the warnings will stop but I prefer to leave it on as it stops you posting a silly date.

And finally, assuming that we are entering all invoices (supplier and customer) against the correct Nominal Code, do I just leave the Tax and depreciation calculations up to the accountant? I'm guessing I also had better keep a separate spreadsheet as an "Asset Register" so the account knows what was a sale to a customer, and what was bought for internal use...

You should use the VAT codes. This will allow Sage to calculate your VAT return for you.

Assets for your business use should be coded to the 00XX range, not to normal purchases.

 

[businessowner350]

Thanks for your reply.

What about corporation Tax calculations? Do I just leave this to the accountant (assuming all N/C are used correctly)

Where can I view my supplier codes? Is there really no way to see Ex Vat and VAT amounts for each supplier or customer, after the invoice has been entered?

Thanks

 

[Scalloway]

Yes you should leave corporation tax to your acountant.

By supplier codes I mean the individual supplier accounts in the Sage Supplier module. I have never had any need to see Ex Vat and VAT amounts for each supplier or customer so I can't give you a full answer on that one. Why do you need it?

 

[businessowner350]

Why do you need it?

It's just really due to the fact that we'd like to see data that we've entered into Sage. I'm sure Sage will do calculations properly, but it's nice to see that everything has been entered properly.

 

[E Storey]

I work with 2 clients that have a customer called "unknown"

I worked with another that had one called "domestic jobs" it all ammounts to the same thing, you create a clients called "misc" and record all their details aginst the individual invoice.

If your small enought to be using sage, this should be ok to manage...

if you have more than say 3 per week .... I'd say too much to keep ontop of and creat indivdual accounts.

 

[businessowner350]

if you have more than say 3 per week .... I'd say too much to keep ontop of and creat indivdual accounts.

I'm guessing you mean 3 per week from the same supplier?

 

[Scalloway]

It's just really due to the fact that we'd like to see data that we've entered into Sage. I'm sure Sage will do calculations properly, but it's nice to see that everything has been entered properly.

You should use the Nominal Activity report in the Nominal module.