SAGE - Help PLEASE!!

Lauraadele18

Free Member
Feb 19, 2018
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Hi,

I am new to Sage (and so far i hate it, i dont find it user friendly at all!) and i have set it up with my business details and i have sent some invoices to my customers. Now i need to add my expenses. I have things like Bridge Toll receipts, tools receipts etc how do i record these? As i have already paid for them, do i need to set them up as a supplier with an invoice? Surely there has to be an easy way to record these expenses?

Also, on a side note, can anyone tell me if i can claim the mileage without fuel receipts? E.G work out how much mileage i have done and then claim X pence per mile?

Thanks in advance i appreciate any help and support with this
Laura
 

MyAccountantOnline

Business Member
Sep 24, 2008
15,260
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myaccountantonline.co.uk
Hi,

I am new to Sage (and so far i hate it, i dont find it user friendly at all!) and i have set it up with my business details and i have sent some invoices to my customers. Now i need to add my expenses. I have things like Bridge Toll receipts, tools receipts etc how do i record these? As i have already paid for them, do i need to set them up as a supplier with an invoice? Surely there has to be an easy way to record these expenses?

Also, on a side note, can anyone tell me if i can claim the mileage without fuel receipts? E.G work out how much mileage i have done and then claim X pence per mile?

Thanks in advance i appreciate any help and support with this
Laura

Hi Laura

Pardon the daft question but if you hate it why use it?

By the way I'm an accountant and dont find it user friendly at all either ;)

You've got lots of choice for an alternative.
 
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Newchodge

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    Hi Laura

    Pardon the daft question but if you hate it why use it?

    By the way I'm an accountant and dont find it user friendly at all either ;)

    You've got lots of choice for an alternative.

    Presumably, because they have paid for it?

    I too would have said son't touch Sage or Quickbooks with a bargepole, but it may be a bit late
     
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    FlaviusFX

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    Dec 18, 2018
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    Frinton on Sea
    Hi,

    I am new to Sage (and so far i hate it, i dont find it user friendly at all!) and i have set it up with my business details and i have sent some invoices to my customers. Now i need to add my expenses. I have things like Bridge Toll receipts, tools receipts etc how do i record these? As i have already paid for them, do i need to set them up as a supplier with an invoice? Surely there has to be an easy way to record these expenses?

    Also, on a side note, can anyone tell me if i can claim the mileage without fuel receipts? E.G work out how much mileage i have done and then claim X pence per mile?

    Thanks in advance i appreciate any help and support with this
    Laura
    You could create expense accounts(Bridge Toll, tools), supplier account and post the bills, you should be able to post with out a supplier invoice. Intrestingto found out how you sorted this issue.

    Regards
     
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    Scalloway

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    You could create expense accounts(Bridge Toll, tools), supplier account and post the bills, you should be able to post with out a supplier invoice. Intrestingto found out how you sorted this issue.

    Regards

    That sounds far too complicated. This is my solution.

    What you can do is set up a Bank Account type code called Cash Expenses and pay them out of there.
     
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    Interesting, what didn't Sage do for you?
    I have no idea - I don't do the books. I just remember that when I was told of the trouble it was causing and the extra work involved, as it didn't interface with anything and couldn't even read SQL (I hear it does do that now) I got rid of the woman who thought that Sage was a good idea and someone else took over and used some SW recommended by our accountants.

    We have a company ban on cloud SW and on SW as a service, as this is regarded as a type of debt and I do not allow debt.
     
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    D

    Deleted member 315707

    I have no idea - I don't do the books. I just remember that when I was told of the trouble it was causing and the extra work involved, as it didn't interface with anything and couldn't even read SQL (I hear it does do that now) I got rid of the woman who thought that Sage was a good idea and someone else took over and used some SW recommended by our accountants.

    We have a company ban on cloud SW and on SW as a service, as this is regarded as a type of debt and I do not allow debt.

    That's an interesting thought, personally I like to think of it as an operating expense, after all you aren't tied into long contracts so can cancel at any time and you'd owe nothing. You also don't have the upfront costs of servers, ongoing maintenance, annual upgrade fees and support so it's good for cashflow.

    If you're worried about the semantics of debt then why not move the capital you would have spent on your desktop solution over an x year period into an account used just for the monthly cloud software fees.
     
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    Wogan May

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    Dec 25, 2018
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    That's an interesting thought, personally I like to think of it as an operating expense, after all you aren't tied into long contracts so can cancel at any time and you'd owe nothing.

    There are a few cases where this isn't strictly true. Adobe's Creative Cloud, for instance - it requires an annual commitment that's paid monthly (if you want the advertised prices), so it's effectively an annual contract with penalties for early cancellation.

    Most SaaS applications really are month-to-month though, and the only "debt", if any, is the operational cost of moving all your stuff back out if you decide to change vendors. Other than that it really is just opex - akin to a phone bill.
     
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    First we had this -
    I like to think of it as an operating expense, after all you aren't tied into long contracts so can cancel at any time and you'd owe nothing.
    and then we got -
    Most SaaS applications really are month-to-month though, and the only "debt", if any, is the operational cost of moving all your stuff back out if you decide to change vendors. Other than that it really is just opex - akin to a phone bill.
    both of which sadly show a lack of understanding of what debt really is.

    (My apologies for bluntness, but it is important for each and every business person to understand the true nature of debt and the true goals of a commercial enterprise.)

    Signing up for one year of Adobe CS, or signing up for some telephone service are both liabilities and that is in end effect the same as debt. Unfortunately, in the UK and the US, both private enterprise and the various branches of government draw a distinction between liabilities and debt and class them separately. That is how and why 'public private partnerships' and pensions allow government to hide the true size of public debt. They push liabilities off the red side of the balance sheet and onto continuous expenses.

    Companies such as Tesco and indeed nearly all UK chain stores, rent their shops and, instead of viewing a 15 year lease as a debt, it gets classed as a continuous expense. It is my view that this is a VERY dangerous misrepresentation of what is in reality a debt.

    This is all fine and dandy, if the one and only goal of a company is profit and profit alone. All companies have another goal - equity.

    Even movie production companies (that are usually by their founding articles forbidden from owning anything other than the rights to just one movie) are seeking to create intellectual and reputational equity for those involved. The producers, directors, studios, FX team, actors and all the others hope that when the movie company is sold to the distributors, it will be a hit, so that they may enhance their reputations and be able to charge a little bit more the next time around. That is their equity!

    We have just received the news that HMV that rents all its shops and only sells on sale-or-return is about to go under. Others playing that dangerous game will follow. By being based on debt but calling debt 'operational expenses', they have increased the level of risk and one small downturn in trade and they find their nostrils below the high-water-mark and they drown. They drown in debt!

    Companies like mine that seek to develop equity can last longer when the going gets difficult.

    If you are running a business that needs buildings, machines and IP to function, it pays great dividends to own these assets. Compare Tesco and all the other publicly listed home-grown chains with the fortunes of Aldi and Lidl who pay for their goods in a timely manner, they own their shops and are both private companies owned outright by single families. Not only can Aldi and Lidl sell at lower prices, but they also make more profit!

    Profit that they both turn into more shops and more equity.
     
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    Wogan May

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    (My apologies for bluntness, but it is important for each and every business person to understand the true nature of debt and the true goals of a commercial enterprise.)

    No need to apologize to me! Reality itself is pretty blunt ;)

    The reason I don't consider these SaaS contracts as debt is because no interest accrues on them. No lump sum of money changes hands anywhere, no repayment schedule is devised, etc. If I were taking a loan from Adobe CS to the value of 1 year's subscription and paying it back at zero % interest, it would be a complicated arrangement that's technically debt, but that's not what I'm doing.

    As a liability, sure - I've agreed to pay money in future I may not have yet. But then that is the nature of a lot of operational expenses, and liabilities aren't necessarily a bad thing. I'm sure they're abused to a great extent (like you've said) but that doesn't change the technical nature of it, surely?

    If debt, liability and contractual payments are all lumped into the same conceptual pot, then how would any business function without incurring at least some of that?
     
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    Even we must incur some liabilities such as telephone contracts. If I could buy a telephone line and get free calls for ever, I would, but nobody will sell me such a service!

    Rent, car leasing, staff wages, pension schemes and the annual schlep to the accountants and all the other liabilities that most companies incur are in reality liabilities that all incur a debt.

    The reason I don't consider these SaaS contracts as debt is because no interest accrues on them. No lump sum of money changes hands anywhere, no repayment schedule is devised, etc.
    That is just an accounting move, but not a realistic appraisal of what has happened.

    You could argue that all debts are liabilities, but not all liabilities are debts. At least they are not debts in the accounting sense of the word. Leasing a car is just a nice way of saying that you borrowed the money to buy the damn thing! Renting a shop is another way of getting a shop by paying regular instalments.
    _______________________________________

    SaaS has another far greater downside. When SW gets taken off the package-to-buy list and is only available on SaaS, IT engineers get fired, R&D gets cancelled and the whole thing deteriorates into a binge of customer-milking. The product remains static after a few years and the only 'improvements' and new features are either very minor or are just old features rearranged.
     
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    D

    Deleted member 315707

    Even we must incur some liabilities such as telephone contracts. If I could buy a telephone line and get free calls for ever, I would, but nobody will sell me such a service!

    Rent, car leasing, staff wages, pension schemes and the annual schlep to the accountants and all the other liabilities that most companies incur are in reality liabilities that all incur a debt.


    That is just an accounting move, but not a realistic appraisal of what has happened.

    You could argue that all debts are liabilities, but not all liabilities are debts. At least they are not debts in the accounting sense of the word. Leasing a car is just a nice way of saying that you borrowed the money to buy the damn thing! Renting a shop is another way of getting a shop by paying regular instalments.
    _______________________________________

    SaaS has another far greater downside. When SW gets taken off the package-to-buy list and is only available on SaaS, IT engineers get fired, R&D gets cancelled and the whole thing deteriorates into a binge of customer-milking. The product remains static after a few years and the only 'improvements' and new features are either very minor or are just old features rearranged.

    All of this is just semantics, I'm sure we could all argue which ever way we like. The question was about cloud accountancy software which at most is likely £30 a month with no on going commitment therefore I don't think any reasonable person would say it's a debt in a traditional sense of the word. It's purely an operating expense or would you also suggest that by filling up your car with petrol it should go on the balance sheet as an asset until you use it?
     
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    DavidWH

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    with no on going commitment

    Disagree with this.

    There is on going commitment.

    Use Adobe, you need Adobe to open their native files. Sure you can export it in a different format, but when it comes to editing it, you can find a right mess in other software.

    Same with accounts, all the historical transactions conveniently stored in the software, change provider and what do you get? A CSV file, that possibly doesn't import into your new provider.

    We paid £90 for a perpetual licence for sage, that ticks all the boxes, why would I pay £10 a month for years to come. We still use cs5, why would I pay monthly when there are no startling new features that make it worthwhile?
     
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    Deleted member 315707

    There is on going commitment.

    Again semantics. Anyone can pick apart almost anything to have a debate, the point still stands, a monthly 30 day rolling contract does not warrant either a debt or an ongoing financial commitment. If it doesn't work out, use something else, after all most products either give you a trial or a reduced monthly fee for a period of time so what's to lose?

    I'm glad you love Sage and feel it's value for money, it obviously seems like a great fit for you and your business.

    What I'd say is that not all businesses are alike and I'd venture a piece of desktop software which you paid £90 for is likely Instant Accounts, is unsupported, is not MTD ready and has no access to a myriad of time saving online features. These features, for many businesses, save many many times over on admin costs.

    Personally I think it's always worthwhile to look on the market and see whether there are more efficient ways of doing things, you can bet your competitors are. Just imagine if HMV had had the foresight to launch a cloud music service...

    I have no experience with CS5 so cannot comment on that or the features a new version offers.
     
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    Scalloway

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    We paid £90 for a perpetual licence for sage, that ticks all the boxes, why would I pay £10 a month for years to come. We still use cs5, why would I pay monthly when there are no startling new features that make it worthwhile?

    What happens when you have to get a new computer or an upgrade stops it working? In my 20 plus years of working with Windows I have had that problem with a lot of software so I went for a subscription for Office 365 which should keep pace with future developments.
     
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    DavidWH

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    Similarly what happens when the software updates, and you need to upgrade OS & hardware, which happens with mac? Or office updates and doesn't work with you MIS programme?

    I've upgraded our accounts package but buy it on a perpetual licence, I've upgraded our windows machine with no issues.

    Whether its Adobe, office, sage, very rarely have i seen a new feature that makes me wish to upgrade, the last one was sage for the bank feeds as it saves me manually entering them.

    My main issue is, what happens when the subscription increases?

    Seems sage have decided that even if you have a perpetual licence you have to subscribe to MTD... even though I've been able to submit vat returns electronically since 2010 without a subscription :rolleyes:
     
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    Wogan May

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    It seems that subscription vs perpetual licensing is one of those holy wars that there are no satisfactory objective answers to, which is fine. There's just one point to consider with perpetually-licensed products: If you're not receiving perpetual security updates for as long as you use the product, you're gradually exposing yourself to more risk.

    Unless if you're able to completely airgap your office network, or run your business offline, anything that gets exposed to the internet needs to be continually updated to remain secure. That's not a dodgy scheme on behalf of the software vendors: That's the reality of modern software, built using distributed teams and constantly being picked apart by hackers.

    (Among my favorites: In 2015 a vulnerability was discovered in Windows' font subsystem. It was possible to write malicious code into a font file that could then take over a user's machine.)

    For my part, even though I have perpetual licenses for Windows 7, Office 2013 and a handful of other tools, I'm currently paying the subscription costs for all the latest versions for that reason alone. Products that are sold once-off with lifetime pricing tend not to get the same support over the long term - even Microsoft, with all their resources, ended support for Windows XP several years ago.
     
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    Deleted member 315707

    Seems sage have decided that even if you have a perpetual licence you have to subscribe to MTD... even though I've been able to submit vat returns electronically since 2010 without a subscription :rolleyes:

    This is definitely not a defence of Sage but if you don't have a current version you will either have to subscribe to 50cloud or update your current perpetual license to the latest version AND buy an MTD module for £300.

    I get the reasoning behind needing to be on the latest version, after all it's HMRC that have changed things so I wouldn't expect a software company to rework all it's previous versions to work with it. After all what's in it for them, I wouldn't expect Samsung to rework my TV to make it 4k.

    The bit that gets my goat is that even if you have the latest version you have to pay the £300 on top for the module..
     
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    DavidWH

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    The bit that gets my goat is that even if you have the latest version you have to pay the £300 on top for the module.

    My gripe too... sage has been able to submit VAT returns without any addon for years. I suspect they are just using MTD to create an ongoing income stream.

    I either pay £10pcm to have my current version, or even the newest perpetual version MTD enabled, or pay £18pcm for sage 50c.

    It's fine we've just started doing the same... charging for ancillary services we used to provide free.
     
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