'Safe' route from management accountancy to my own practice?

[Aspiring_Bean_Counter]

Hello chaps,

I am looking for some advice and have seen some great posts on this site, so am hoping you guys will weigh in for me here!

I am a CIMA qualified management accountant who has been working as a finance manager in large businesses (ie, FTSE 100). For a number of reasons I am looking at a sea change, and really want to ultimately work for myself as a 'proper' accountant. However, I'm not sure about the route I need to take.

At the moment I am contemplating a huge salary cut, trying to find a job in a small practice perhaps as a trainee or 'assistant' for a year or so while I convert from CIMA to ACCA (apparently it involves re-sitting only the final set of papers) while gaining some insight into how to run an accountancy practice, before contemplating branching out on my own. I'm aware that I can get a practicing certificate from CIMA that would assist in me doing pretty much everything except formally signing off accounts (which I would have to then pass to a 'proper' accountant), but having worked in a totally different financial environment, it's more about the experience, and I think a trainee position would give me both the qualification and the experience.

Does this sound like the 'logical' route? I can't decide if I am over-complicating things? Or undercomplicating them?!

Assuming this is broadly the right approach, I am really struggling to find this kind of role within a practice as the only jobs I seem to come across are for those who already have practice experience...

Some other threads mentioned the value of having a good 'mentor' available, which would be wonderful but I don't know a single practice accountant, just lots of corporate/management accountants, who all think it's a good idea but have little specific advice to offer me!

I would really appreciate any advice, pointers, tips etc, as I feel very 'green' on this topic!

 

[DFL]

Happy to talk you through the issues you will face and the practicalities of what you want to do, feel free to PM me.

 

[Jenni384]

It's good to see someone wanting to get the experience - too often we see folk wanting to go into practice and not appreciating that they really need some experience both for themselves and for their clients.

As someone who didn't work in a traditional accountancy practice but worked alongside a sole practitioner mentor instead, if you want to get in touch for a chat feel free also.

Where are you based?

 

[Zeno]

A very refreshing post. I suppose financial accountants are just as guilty of thinking they can move into management accounting at the drop of a calculator.

Your approach seems a good way to me although please be aware that after you sit the ACCA finals you will still have a period to serve before you can set up on your own. I want to say 2 years?

 

[accountancyextra]

Aspiring Bean Counter, Alpha (one of the mods) and I are both CIMA qualified with industry backgrounds and now both run practices, so we know what you are going through at the moment.

You'll find that CIMA are a really suportive bunch!!

Drop me a PM or e mail if you'd like to talk more

 

[Aspiring_Bean_Counter]

Thank you all for the positive replies!

Jenni, I'm based in central London.

Zeno, can you elaborate on the post-qualification experience? I'm just wondering (hoping) if there's overlap with my CIMA experience...

I'll PM you all, thank you so much again for the support!

 

[Zeno]

I am relatively sure that in order to gain an ACCA practising certificate it is only your post qualifing experience that counts. Your experience up until now as a CIMA will certainly count towards your membership.

You do realise that you only have to be ACCA/ICAEW if you intend to audit?

 

[CassioAcc]

As Zeno says, if you do not intend to audit then you can register as a member in practice with CIMA. Look at the CIMA website there is lots of information there and there is plently of support and advice from the institute.

 

[Aspiring_Bean_Counter]

I think this is where my lack of knowledge as to the other side of the accounting fence really starts to let me down to be honest, which is why I think some time in a practice would be a really good place to start.

In simplistic terms, I got the impression that if I wanted to become a small business's accountant, if I wasn't ACCA/ICAEW qualified, then it would mean having to outsource the rubber-stamping of the accounts to someone else who is. I figured that if I was going to spend some time in practice, I 'may as well' take that final set of exams and have that under my belt, but it seems it may be more arduous than I thought...!

 

[accountancyextra]

I think this is where my lack of knowledge as to the other side of the accounting fence really starts to let me down to be honest, which is why I think some time in a practice would be a really good place to start.

In simplistic terms, I got the impression that if I wanted to become a small business's accountant, if I wasn't ACCA/ICAEW qualified, then it would mean having to outsource the rubber-stamping of the accounts to someone else who is. I figured that if I was going to spend some time in practice, I 'may as well' take that final set of exams and have that under my belt, but it seems it may be more arduous than I thought...!

Believe it or not, but you don't actually have to have any qualifications to "rubber stamp" accounts in the UK, so no you don't need to study ACCA unless you want to do audits (and to be honest, the number of audits that are needed these days is dwindling, so I wouldn't bother).

 

[Groovy Train]

I'm aware that I can get a practicing certificate from CIMA that would assist in me doing pretty much everything except formally signing off accounts (which I would have to then pass to a 'proper' accountant), but having worked in a totally different financial environment, it's more about the experience, and I think a trainee position would give me both the qualification and the experience.

A_B_C - what makes you think that you aren't a 'proper' accountant????

 

[Aspiring_Bean_Counter]

A_B_C - what makes you think that you aren't a 'proper' accountant????

Sorry, was trying to be funny, my sense of humour should tell you I'm a 'proper' accountant !

I guess it's the inferiority complex developed after many introductions where the conversation goes as follows:

them: "so what do you do then?"
me: "I'm an accountant."
them: "Oh really? I could do with a good accountant!"
me: "Sorry, I'm not that kind of accountant...." (brief attempt to explain the difference as their eyes slowly glaze over)

Although recently, the last line has altered slightly to 'well, let me take your details!" instead!

 

[Groovy Train]

Ahh fair enough, i have had many similar conversations and, like i'm sure you are, i'm quite protective over my status of being equally qualified.

If I was you (and I almost was), i'd take on a few cheap/freebie jobs in my spare time and explain the situation - most of it is quite straightforward and there's plenty of info on the www (although i cross reference everything back to HMRC web/phone call)

I'm actually running my own ltd company and am learning on the job but have a very experienced family friend to refer back to when it comes to year end.

I actually think that a CIMA qual can offer a lot when it comes to smaller companies as we have better real world industry experience, and working for a FTSE company (as i have) there are learnings that can be applied.

 

[Aspiring_Bean_Counter]

Thanks everyone! I have been mulling things over a bit, and have decided to review the Masterplan, and would love your thoughts, you have all been so insightful!

I am def not going to retrain, there's no point for what I want to do and it wil be too demanding for too little benefit. I have signed up to a couple of CIMA events such as the 'self employment as a management accountant' and a few others.

I do still feel I need both experience and it's becoming more apparent that a friendly mentor-type figure would be hugely beneficial and is currently missing. As such I am still contemplating some time in practice, and at the same time I will brush up on my tax & financial reporting knowledge through training, etc.

After about a year I plan to start picking up a few of my own clients so I don't have a zero client base when I start out.

Financially I have a small side income from my hobby which will help to sustain me while I build my client base up.

Does that sound a sensible approach? Similar to the first but without the ACCA retraining really!

 

[Zeno]

How do you plan to manage taking on your own clients while working in practice? It is a conflict of interest between yourself and your employer that may lead to complications. It may also be seen to be a little bit ungrateful to the practice that is training you?

 

[Aspiring_Bean_Counter]

Zeno, would you advise me to wait until I'm 'ready'? Do you/anyone have suggestions how to handle the transition?

Would it be a conflict of interest? I figured if I wasn't stealing my employer's clients then it wouldn't be but I'm here to be educated :redface:!

 

[Zeno]

Zeno, would you advise me to wait until I'm 'ready'? Do you/anyone have suggestions how to handle the transition?

Would it be a conflict of interest? I figured if I wasn't stealing my employer's clients then it wouldn't be but I'm here to be educated :redface:!

Most firms of accountants look down on "homers" but are usually fairly understanding of services to friends & family. Doing your brother's tax return is not therefore going to be an issue however actively seeking clients will be.

You will most likely find that the firm you work for will place terms to this effect in your employment contract.

The conflict of interest comes in terms of trust. If you think of it, how can they trust you to meet a new client then poach them by offering a lower price? (Even if you have no intention of doing so, the suspicion will be there).

This is one of the most difficult areas to deal with when starting your practice from scratch. There are a fair few threads on how to obtain new clients that may be of interest.

 

[yorkshirejames]

Sorry, was trying to be funny, my sense of humour should tell you I'm a 'proper' accountant !

I guess it's the inferiority complex developed after many introductions where the conversation goes as follows:

them: "so what do you do then?"
me: "I'm an accountant."
them: "Oh really? I could do with a good accountant!"
me: "Sorry, I'm not that kind of accountant...." (brief attempt to explain the difference as their eyes slowly glaze over)

Although recently, the last line has altered slightly to 'well, let me take your details!" instead!

I also did CIMA, but I never felt the need to identify myself as "not that kind of accountant". The way I see it, every course starts off with sole trader, then moves to small company, large company, and then the softer things such as change management. Difference as I see it is that ACCA emphasises on small/large company and never quite gets to the softer things, whereas CIMA rushes through small company to focus in detail on the soft skills. I'm not going to discuss the perceived merits of ACCA vs CIMA vs ACA - but all are much of a muchness really.

Since I left my previous role working with a large multi-national, I have worked for myself, with various clients. Like others, feel free to PM me and I'll try to help where I can.

Agree that auditing is peripheral.

 

[Zeno]

Agree that auditing is peripheral.

Not quite. There is some speculation that the credit industry will be driving the need for more companies to be audited. Well, companies that require credit anyway.

Be interesting to see how it works out.

 

[Matt Knight]

I find this all very interesting, I would love to work for myself being ACCA Qualified. However, without a practising certificate ACCA says I can only offer bookkeeping, VAT and accounts to TB. This then excludes the juicier public offerings such as final accounts preparation and tax returns as these constitute reports relied upon by 3rd parties. Therefore I would have to go into practice for a few years I guess to get this certificate? 20 years in accounts and 10 years PQE means nothing here.

Is it the case that CIMA qualifieds are allowed to offer the public more services then like accounts preparation?

 

[Matt Knight]

Hi Aspiring Bean Counter,

I am confused as to why you do not need a practising certificate to set up in business. At ACCA, without a practising certificate you can only offer the public basic bookkeeping/vat returns/accounts to TB services. Final accounts preparation/self assessment tax returns are a no no as this constitutes 'preparing reports that could be used by third parties'. Are you only intending to offer limited services or does CIMA have a more relaxed policy about what it's members can offer?

Thanks

Matt

 

[Matt Knight]

Sorry for duplicate message, new here and I thought my first message went into cyberspace!!!

 

[Aspiring_Bean_Counter]

From what I gather, I would need a practicing certificate (CIMA requirements) but it appears that CIMA is less strict in its requirements to obtain it- you don't have to spend several years in practice to get it (as far as I can see from the CIMA website)

Have I understood this correctly?

 

[Matt Knight]

If that is the case than I might sit the conversion papers to CIMA, easier than spending a couple of years in practice especially at my age! Although, I think there is an alternative where you could get someone with a practising certificate to monitor your work for 2 years for a fee

 

[DFL]

Yes - you will also need a continuity agreement with a fellow CIMA member.

 

[yorkshirejames]

I find this all very interesting, I would love to work for myself being ACCA Qualified. However, without a practising certificate ACCA says I can only offer bookkeeping, VAT and accounts to TB. This then excludes the juicier public offerings such as final accounts preparation and tax returns as these constitute reports relied upon by 3rd parties. Therefore I would have to go into practice for a few years I guess to get this certificate? 20 years in accounts and 10 years PQE means nothing here.

Is it the case that CIMA qualifieds are allowed to offer the public more services then like accounts preparation?

I believe (and don't quote me) that it is more of a closed shop arrangement.

Legally, anyone can offer accountancy services to the general public (and this can be to do anything).

The ACCA don't like this, and indeed lead a petition last year to try and make "accountancy" a protected term like solicitor/insolvency practitioner is.

I imagine that ACCA get all their members and students to sign up to a code of conduct that they will not offer accountancy services to the general public without the ACCA Practicing Certificate.

I don't get the attraction of "working for yourself" though. If someone offered me a guaranteed salary/bonus deal (whether to work in industry or practice) I would probably take it - especially in the current economic climate.

 

[Matt Knight]

Hi Yorkshire James,

But what if you have not got a job and there is nothing around? I finished up a very long contract last November with salary and bonus but there is less work around now then ever before that I can remember! Working for yourself and building up a decent sized business surely has it's attractions if only to keep you off the streets!!

 

[yorkshirejames]

Quite - yes.

 

[Rohit]

I have been reading through these posts as I found myself in exactly the same position as ABC. I qualified as a CIMA member this year and I am currently doing ACCA. I think ACCA will definitely help with gaining knowledge in areas such as tax although I agree with certain peoples comments that theory cannot replace the experience in a practice environment. I also agree that its damn hard to get into practice as they usually are low paid jobs (when compared to industry) that require experience. ABC - Would really be interested to know regarding your current situation?

 

[yorkshirejames]

I have been reading through these posts as I found myself in exactly the same position as ABC. I qualified as a CIMA member this year and I am currently doing ACCA. I think ACCA will definitely help with gaining knowledge in areas such as tax although I agree with certain peoples comments that theory cannot replace the experience in a practice environment. I also agree that its damn hard to get into practice as they usually are low paid jobs (when compared to industry) that require experience. ABC - Would really be interested to know regarding your current situation?

There isn't really much benefit in doing ACCA as well as CIMA.....

 

[Y2k Finance]

Hi,

I am considering moving into practice myself. Did you make the move? Can you offer any advice. I am also CIMA qualified working in financial services.

thanks

 

[androo235]

I am recently CIMA qualified but with local authority experience. I am considering practise work (having taken redundancy from my employer I am only just starting to look at the job market in earnest now) and had thought of the following strategy:

- to offer my services to multiple high street firms on a contract/ad-hoc basis. My idea is that they could contract me to do the work but keep the client interface for themselves. I imagined this as a way to get around the possible conflict of interest issues, already mentioned in this thread, while hopefully giving me exposure to a variety of work. Moreover this approach could leave me freer to take on contract/interim work that isn't practise oriented (i.e. more traditional CIMA roles).

However my impression is that this may not be a viable approach and that therefore the only way to get practise work is to start looking for clients yourself. Perhaps taking on startups that established firms disdain and offering freebies etc in order to start building a client base. This approach would require a 100% commitment as essentially it is building a business.

I am confident that a business can be built if one is, by necessity or choice, committed. I have an older brother, who is not an accountant or a qualified anything, and he has built himself a portfolio of three steady clients for who he is an IT/Business Analyst (though he has no such fancy title). That is he manages their IT/IM/IS while they separately employ an accountant to prepare the statutory accounts and organise the bookeeping. This indicates to me that there are many niches and that many arrangements are possible.

My hope was to test the water somewhat to get a feel for what's out there and what suits me rather than take on another full-time role or go full on into building my own business now.

I'm not sure how viable this strategy is now. Shame.