Risk assessments and method statements
- Thread starter wood1e2
- Start date
If your serious about protecting your employees from harm (morally and legally you know this is right) then you have to do a RA and MS.
Otherwise how do you know that you have mitigated the risk?
RA and MS needn't be onerous, you can do a RA in your head for smaller tasks.
More here:-hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg163.pdf
Otherwise how do you know that you have mitigated the risk?
RA and MS needn't be onerous, you can do a RA in your head for smaller tasks.
More here:-hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg163.pdf
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I worked for a company that had two fatalities in two different buildings over a space of two years. One was when a chap had a heart attack and toppled over the bannister at the head office while coming down stairs.
HSE were called in and they ascertained that while it was an unfortunate accident, my company had done a RA and therefore they had mitigated all risk. However they made a recomendation that the bannister be raised - which the company did.
The 2nd fatality was on a telecommunications tower that was being built, by our preferrred sub contractor. Essentially the machine that was being used to drill the foundations toppled over and 40 ton of pipe bore toppled over and crushed a man.
HSE were obviously called and as the operations manager - so was I.
I took our H&S manager with me. After a period of time the HSE asked for the RA, which our preferred contractor provided - even though they had sub contracted the work out to a specialist contractor.
In the end, the HSE said that my company was not responsible, as we had gone through the right process and procedures to mitigate our responsibility in managing risk.
Our preferred contractor had to go through many hoops and lots and lots of cost (emergency call off of a crane to lift 40 tons of bore/ambulance fees/mortuary fees/workers downtime/HSE inspectorate fees etc) before they were eventually released by the HSE for doing as much as they could.
The specialist sub-contractor eventually went under for failing in there duty to protect there employee who was unfortunately killed.
Essentially, if something goes wrong then the HSE can get involved and you have to evidence that you have performed a RA and then created a MS and done all you can.
Its up to you to decide if you think you can do afford to do without it.
HSE website is packed with information. Have a look there.
HSE were called in and they ascertained that while it was an unfortunate accident, my company had done a RA and therefore they had mitigated all risk. However they made a recomendation that the bannister be raised - which the company did.
The 2nd fatality was on a telecommunications tower that was being built, by our preferrred sub contractor. Essentially the machine that was being used to drill the foundations toppled over and 40 ton of pipe bore toppled over and crushed a man.
HSE were obviously called and as the operations manager - so was I.
I took our H&S manager with me. After a period of time the HSE asked for the RA, which our preferred contractor provided - even though they had sub contracted the work out to a specialist contractor.
In the end, the HSE said that my company was not responsible, as we had gone through the right process and procedures to mitigate our responsibility in managing risk.
Our preferred contractor had to go through many hoops and lots and lots of cost (emergency call off of a crane to lift 40 tons of bore/ambulance fees/mortuary fees/workers downtime/HSE inspectorate fees etc) before they were eventually released by the HSE for doing as much as they could.
The specialist sub-contractor eventually went under for failing in there duty to protect there employee who was unfortunately killed.
Essentially, if something goes wrong then the HSE can get involved and you have to evidence that you have performed a RA and then created a MS and done all you can.
Its up to you to decide if you think you can do afford to do without it.
HSE website is packed with information. Have a look there.
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As has already been said, there is a legal requirement for you to carry out a risk assessment if only to establish that the risks are minimal or non existent.
However if risks are present you will also have put control measures in place to mitigate the risk.
Certainly for Fire risk assessments if you have 5 or more employee's then you must document them, pretty sure it's the same for generic but not 100%
There are plenty of free tools and guides available from the HSE Website.
Some contractors require RA's or method statements as a matter of course in order for the work to take place, whether there is a risk or not !
I had to do one for a large contractor for a training session once before they would allow to carry out the training.
So found myself almost making up risks and showing how I would deal with them, just to satisfy there procurement process.
However if risks are present you will also have put control measures in place to mitigate the risk.
Certainly for Fire risk assessments if you have 5 or more employee's then you must document them, pretty sure it's the same for generic but not 100%
There are plenty of free tools and guides available from the HSE Website.
Some contractors require RA's or method statements as a matter of course in order for the work to take place, whether there is a risk or not !
I had to do one for a large contractor for a training session once before they would allow to carry out the training.
So found myself almost making up risks and showing how I would deal with them, just to satisfy there procurement process.
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- Original Poster
- #9
So this RA and MS is to be completed for the employees? Not the clients they visit?
I am confused whose safety is my client trying to right records on? The clients or his two employees?
How can there be a generic form?
Although they service machines on client sites, it is not the same as a car mechanic servicing a car? Or a someone who unblocks drains!!
I am confused whose safety is my client trying to right records on? The clients or his two employees?
How can there be a generic form?
Although they service machines on client sites, it is not the same as a car mechanic servicing a car? Or a someone who unblocks drains!!
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- Original Poster
- #11
What is the need of these risk assessments, my client pays the two engineers enough money to be able to make their own judgement call on what is risk/riskier or risk free when working.
He also pays large sums in insurance!!!
Plus margins are so tight and if the customers are need to fill in any information then the paperwork is likely to end up in the bin as the customers are small(ish) businesses and have not the time or inclination to pay, let alone fill in paper work!!!
He also pays large sums in insurance!!!
Plus margins are so tight and if the customers are need to fill in any information then the paperwork is likely to end up in the bin as the customers are small(ish) businesses and have not the time or inclination to pay, let alone fill in paper work!!!
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wood1e2 - as was explained to me, ignorance is not a defence in the eyes of the law. It was also explained that the employee is as much in the dock, if they do something dangerous, without trying to prevent injury/harm etc.
You can have a generic RA for similar machines - as the RA will show that you have thought about the risks - so if its a cutting machine, it needs guards, you need to teach people how to use the machine, you might also need to provide PPE (Personal Protective Equipment) - although PPE should be the absolutely last thing you list in the RA. If the machine moves, then you need to have a clear area of working etc etc
All common sense stuff when you think about it.
You also need method statements for working on the machine - but again this needn't be onerous. Essentially a MS is practical and safe working method for your workers to follow on site. So if the engineers goto one site and work on "Joe Bloggs drilling machine A", and they goto site B and work on "Joe Bloggs drilling machine A" - the MS may be the same - however the local conditions (Access/control/trip hazards etc) may change.
As i think i've mentioned already a RA and MS, is done when you perform a task - just like crossing a road, look both ways to ensure you don't get run over, don't run etc. It can be formal (written) or informal (in your head).
Oh, and i agree that a lot of this is job creation for people and theres probably too many jobsworths. However i would prefer to of gone through this process and know that i've done the best for my employees, if the worst ever happened.
As for insurance - insurance doesn't always pay out if you have failed to declare/not reduced the risks etc - i.e. if you left your keys in the car and someone jumps in and drives off - your insurance may not pay out!!
You can have a generic RA for similar machines - as the RA will show that you have thought about the risks - so if its a cutting machine, it needs guards, you need to teach people how to use the machine, you might also need to provide PPE (Personal Protective Equipment) - although PPE should be the absolutely last thing you list in the RA. If the machine moves, then you need to have a clear area of working etc etc
All common sense stuff when you think about it.
You also need method statements for working on the machine - but again this needn't be onerous. Essentially a MS is practical and safe working method for your workers to follow on site. So if the engineers goto one site and work on "Joe Bloggs drilling machine A", and they goto site B and work on "Joe Bloggs drilling machine A" - the MS may be the same - however the local conditions (Access/control/trip hazards etc) may change.
As i think i've mentioned already a RA and MS, is done when you perform a task - just like crossing a road, look both ways to ensure you don't get run over, don't run etc. It can be formal (written) or informal (in your head).
Oh, and i agree that a lot of this is job creation for people and theres probably too many jobsworths. However i would prefer to of gone through this process and know that i've done the best for my employees, if the worst ever happened.
As for insurance - insurance doesn't always pay out if you have failed to declare/not reduced the risks etc - i.e. if you left your keys in the car and someone jumps in and drives off - your insurance may not pay out!!
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wood1e2
Have a look here, it's a fairly straight forward process:
http://www.hse.gov.uk/risk/guidance.htm
Have a look here, it's a fairly straight forward process:
http://www.hse.gov.uk/risk/guidance.htm
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Not sure you've got the hang of this.
Do you work in an unsafe environment?
Do you wish to work in an unsafe environment?
Do you care if others get hurt/killed carrying out their tasks?
Do you care if bystanders get hurt/killed whilst said tasks are being carried out?
I'll assume the answer is a resounding No.
So it puzzles me as to why you (or your client) appear to be looking to get out of/avoid doing the morally right thing.
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it is an (recorded) evaluation and investigation of the potential dangers to employees and others that may arise from an acts or emissions from your business called Risk assessment. Method statement It supports your Risk Assessment by explaining how you will carry out the task, your resources and if you are competent to achieve what
you say.
you say.
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