Refusing to settle our invoice.

[Swinnard]

Refusing to settle our invoice​

.​

Hi

I will try to make this a brief as possible without going into fine details.

I am the proprietor of a small sound and lighting company supplying services and equipment to the entertainment industries.

We recently supplied sound solutions for a youth amateur dramatic theatre company that are refusing to settle our invoice.

This theatre company have over the last ten years had their production sound solutions met by another local sound company, who’s cost’s to which I was informed were increasing year on year. So we were invited to offer our best quotation, upon which our costs were accepted.

I have now learnt that the theatre company chairman son is a director of the other sound company. This has answered a number of the issues I had with regards to information we was given, and problems we encountered on our installation of our equipment for this production.

I am now at the point of going to the county court to recover this money owned. My problem is should I summit a small claim against this theatre company. Or apply for an information order through the court, as to their ability pay our invoice?

I feel this has been a scam on the part of these two companies to save money, as I have now come to know that this show production was always going to make a large loss.

I will add that the Theatre Company is refusing to pay on the ground of "poor service". As I have mention we had problems on the install of our equipment. But all of the six shows of their performances went off without any problems, started at the time stated in their program; none of the show was halted for any reason, and all finished at the expected time. Whilst the shows were running we received no complaints, and received good comments from some of the audience, members of the cast, their musician and their crew. We also have live digital audio recording of each performance, which serves, as our record of each show performance.

We were only informed of their dissatisfaction, over 30 days later when I made enquiries about the non-payment of our invoice.

If any one can offer advise or would like to comment, I would be interested to hear your views.

Swinnard

 

[yorkshirejames]

What sort of entity are they? A limited company, a charity or just an unincorporated association?

If they are the latter, then you can probably sue the people behind this operation direct.

 

[tophatandwellies]

I think I would start the process for taking them to small claims court. You may find they pay up once you start the ball rolling.

 

[Swinnard]

Thank you for your interest, I would say they are unincorporated association of a sort, they are not a limited company.

I can not comfirm their company status but could investiate their status.

Swinnard.

 

[bwglaw]

We recently supplied sound solutions for a youth amateur dramatic theatre company that are refusing to settle our invoice.

Your contract appears to be with the theatre company. You do need to establish their legal entity to avoid any issues arising later.

I am now at the point of going to the county court to recover this money owned. My problem is should I summit a small claim against this theatre company. Or apply for an information order through the court, as to their ability pay our invoice?

You should establish who your contract is actually with and if it is the theatre company then your claim should be made against them.

I will add that the Theatre Company is refusing to pay on the ground of "poor service".

This may form the basis of the theatre company's defence/counter-claim however...

We were only informed of their dissatisfaction, over 30 days later when I made enquiries about the non-payment of our invoice.

...the above implies they have accepted the standard of service was performed with reasonable care and skill and the supply of goods were satisfactory therefore a counterclaim/defence is, in my opinion, likely to fail.

 

[yorkshirejames]

Thank you for your interest, I would say they are unincorporated association of a sort, they are not a limited company.

I can not comfirm their company status but could investiate their status.

Swinnard.

In that case, you sue "Joe Bloggs and Darren Bloggs T/A ABC Theatre Company".

 

[SST]

Agree with all the above, I would go on www.moneyclaim.gov.uk fill out all the details online and print a copy of the claim form with the details of your claim, save it online (it gives you this option) but dont submit the claim just yet or pay the fee.

Post a copy of the invoice, and the printed out claim form, with a letter to tell them to pay up within 'x' days or you will submit the claim as prepared and enclosed.

It may or may not jolt them into payment, but I think its worth a go before going to court.

If they dont pay up then you can just open it back up and submit it.

 

[seanstevens]

I guess you have some paperwork / contract in place? This should take away any issue about who you should actually go after. No point in wasting time trying to take joe bloggs to court if the debt is legally owed by Bill Bloggs. If it is with the actual theatre company, make sure you know their legal status before completing the paperwork, you don't want to give any excuses for your action to be delayed / stopped.

Best to spend the extra hour doing some background checks now rather than get a surprise later.

 

[termsandconditions]

Sorry to learn of your experience, Swinnard.

We can help collect this for you, if I may be so bold. I also run EC Credit Control. Worst case, you risk £50 per debt in our voucher costs and all the pre-collection investigation is included.

As well as this emergency protection, we can offer passive and active levels of protection through effective terms and business contracts. This works on the basis that prevention is better than cure. An increasing number of debtors try and pull the 'poor service' excuse but this can be neutralised up front with suitable Time Limit for Defects set of clauses built into your business terms.

Late and non-payment is the scourge of businesses offering goods or services on credit. But there are alternatives to legal action. Please see my very recent article for more details. Rest assured, it's not at all 'salesy'.

Best Regards

 

[Swinnard]

Thank you all for your advice and comments looks like I have received good advice on the thread.


Small claims via the county court appear to be my best option.

Could any care to comment on any of the following?

The outstanding invoice is for nearly three thousand pounds, for this amount is it advisable to submit a small claim via the inter net and handle it my self, or should I submit via professional lawyer.

They paid £1,500.00 as a deposit, but never returned our signed contract, does our contact stand up?

Can I add interest to the outstanding invoice, and if so at what rate?
Any help would be gratefully accepted

Cheers

Swinnard

 

[bwglaw]

Thank you all for your advice and comments looks like I have received good advice on the thread.


Small claims via the county court appear to be my best option.

Could any care to comment on any of the following?

The outstanding invoice is for nearly three thousand pounds, for this amount is it advisable to submit a small claim via the inter net and handle it my self, or should I submit via professional lawyer.

They paid £1,500.00 as a deposit, but never returned our signed contract, does our contact stand up?

Can I add interest to the outstanding invoice, and if so at what rate?
Any help would be gratefully accepted

Cheers

Swinnard

If you email us all the details we can provide free initial advice on recoverability and the best way forward.

 

[Geoff T]

Thank you all for your advice and comments looks like I have received good advice on the thread.


Small claims via the county court appear to be my best option.

Could any care to comment on any of the following?

The outstanding invoice is for nearly three thousand pounds, for this amount is it advisable to submit a small claim via the inter net and handle it my self, or should I submit via professional lawyer.

They paid £1,500.00 as a deposit, but never returned our signed contract, does our contact stand up?

Can I add interest to the outstanding invoice, and if so at what rate?
Any help would be gratefully accepted

Cheers

Swinnard

If you email us all the details we can provide free initial advice on recoverability and the best way forward.

How about we do the first bit for free - as suggested - but out in the open?

1. Was the deposit paid BEFORE or AFTER you sent them the contract? (affects how the law will view the validity of your contract)

2. If the deposit was paid AFTER you sent the contract then - generally speaking - that constitutes 'acceptance' in law, and there's no problem

3. For £1500 - I'd do it yourself - unless you are that concerned, at which point it would be prudent to instruct a solicitor.

4. You can add interest and a compensatory fee to the debt in accordance with the Late Payment of Commercial Debt Regulations 2002 - in this case it would be £70...

However - if any of this gives you cause for concern, or you wish someone better qualified to deal with it on your behalf, then ABSOLUTELY get legal advice...take bwglaw up on their offer.

Best of luck...

If nothing else this will save bwglaw some time explaining things...

 

[bwglaw]

Im obliged for Geoff attempting to answer the questions.

I can comment, just for everyone's information, that 'acceptance' can come in many forms and at variable stages during a contract. These are the facts that need to be established from the outset.

The contract itself may not be an issue here because the customer made an order and paid a deposit of £1500, subject to seeing any terms of the deposit, the customer has accepted the order and this is a legally binding contract. The contract whenever it was given to the customer may well just be deemed as additional terms. As the customer has accepted the goods/service then this 'contract' will be deemed accepted unless of course this 'contract' was given after the supply of goods/services.

Given the time elapse from supply of goods/service to disputing the invoice, whether there is a contract or not is not likely to be an issue. Without sight of the documents, the central issue here is that of 'poor service' and whether the customer has a valid counterclaim/defence for the balance. This further implies the customer accepts there is a contract hence my point it may not be an issue unless some reliance on a clause in that contract is needed.

 

[yorkshirejames]

How about we do the first bit for free - as suggested - but out in the open?

1. Was the deposit paid BEFORE or AFTER you sent them the contract? (affects how the law will view the validity of your contract)

2. If the deposit was paid AFTER you sent the contract then - generally speaking - that constitutes 'acceptance' in law, and there's no problem

Geoff, may I respectfully say that I disagree with your point 1. Even if the deposit was paid first then contract sent out, then it is likely that they accepted it by their conduct (i.e. them taking his lights/speakers and setting them up).

Have we firmed-up who we are sueing?

You can certainly do this yourself - HOWEVER I would imagine that if BWG law will do you a reasonable price for handling the matter (and I don't think there is that much work involved) then this would seem to be a good investment, especially as he will undoubtedly think of things to put in the claim form that you wouldn't.

 

[Geoff T]

Geoff, may I respectfully say that I disagree with your point 1. Even if the deposit was paid first then contract sent out, then it is likely that they accepted it by their conduct (i.e. them taking his lights/speakers and setting them up).

Not disagreeing with the implied acceptance you're hinting at, just that it would be more clear cut if the contract went out 1st, then the deposit came in...

I was just trying to focus the OP's thought on the scehdule of events...

If nothing else it will help when talking to bwg...you need to be clear on the chronology to get the best advice as you know...

 

[Swinnard]

Just to clear things:

I was asked to quote for the sound solutions for this production, via email.

My Quote, sent and was excepted (by email)

I forwarded our stand contract which outlining the services, products and equipment we would supply, within, also has information of the term of our installation, our cost, installation address and such like. Sent (Conventional post)

There is also a copy they can sign and return to us, to confirm all the details re the above are as they wish.

Some times our clients will send us confirmation via, their purchase order, or a letter, email, or will return the signed copy.

In this case they confirmed by email, and sent a cheque for their deposit a day or two later.

Our web site on the page T’s & C’s reads as follows:
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]ACCEPTANCE OF CONTRACT
A contract for sale, or for hire is deems to be accepted on receipt
of full payment, or the minimum required deposit.
Acceptance of contract will only proceed once any payment is
cleared the "Owners" account, or cash office, handed to
representatives, their successors, assigns or person.
This statement is also on the reverse side of the contract we sent out, a long with all of our other T’s & C’s.

My point was if they do not return our signed contract, will our T’s & C’s still stand up.
[/FONT]

 

[bwglaw]

My point was if they do not return our signed contract, will our T’s & C’s still stand up.

In short, yes. The terms can be deemed accepted.

I would not delay in writing a letter before action, at least giving them the opportunity to respond within 7 days detailed reasons why they claim to have received poor service and why they have taken 30 days (or whatever the number of days are) to have made this claim. Point out that their failure to pay the debt in full or to provide valid reasons for their refusal to pay the invoice in full will result in a claim being filed at your County Court for the full amount.

If they respond and give unsatisfactory or an invalid claim for poor service then proceed to Court.