Refusing to pay an invoice in full

[smo]

We had some work done by a company we reguarly use, however on this occasion both parts of the job were botched and sub-standard (printing and mailing job)

Due to the nature they cannot be re-done however we feel that because the job was sub standard it doesnt warrant the full ammount invoiced, in fact nothing even close.

I've raised the issued with the company concerned and whilst they admit there are problems they say its acceptable and I should just pay up, as the customer I say its not acceptable.

The last email I got from them was increditbly rude, headed without predujice (which instantly annoyed me) and stated in no uncertain terms that "lets cut to the chase, you want a discount" - again this got my back up as it goes on to state they no longer accept there is a problem with the work they did.

What is my legal standing on not paying, i'm not after a discount per-say, what I wanted was an admission the job was sub standard and them to deal with it properly but it seems this isnt going to happen, in which case i'm not parting with any money as i'm not happy.

Any advice willingly recieved

 

[OldWelshGuy]

What you say and what you write seem at odds. You have titled the thread 'refusing to pay an invoice in full' indicating that you want a discount, (which is what they said)

Simple fact is if they have fulfilled the contract then you pay, if they haven't then you don't.

Explain 'substandard printing & substandard mailing.

What EXACTLy did they provide you with?? If they mailed 50% of the base then agree to pay it.

Seems to me that instead of being direct, you have just pussyfooted around with them.

Fess up and be straight with them. if you feel 50% is justified, then tell them that is all you are going to pay, and stick to it. If they are not happy, then tell them to take you to court.

One thing is itching at me however. You say "we regularly use" so what went wrong THIS time? What caused these problems? is it your end? Did you contribute in ANY way?

When negotiating like this I find it best to completely fess up and tell them. Look we did x, y & z, we admit this had an affect on the outcome, so we are willing to allow that to be taken into account and feel that considering that we will pay £xxx and no more.

negotiating a compromise means being straight with each other. Seems like you have complained and complained, but not actually negotiated anything, so they have said 'cut to the chase, you want a discount' .

 

[smo]

I havnt stated what I wanted as I was expecting them to admit there has been a problem, they did originally but are now backtracking and saying they wont admit to anything!

The problems were spelled out clearly in bullet points to them as soon as it became apparent. No pussyfooting about, spelled out clearly expecting a striaght forward admission with offer to rectify.

The print is out of register, the colours are out and there is no consistancy throughout the job (variance is HUGE), the mailing was sent but several (not an insignificant number) have been returned with incomplete address because the carrier sheet was mis-folded, it now transpires that this is because they mis-printed one side and folded off-centre to compensate, hence all carrier sheets (20,000) are bodged and look crap. This in addition to the crap print makes for a poor job.

Its entierly their fault, they are specialists in this, we've used them for years and its not the first time they screwed up but usually they are more forthcoming with admitting its a poor job.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

Its entierly their fault, they are specialists in this, we've used them for years and its not the first time they screwed up but usually they are more forthcoming with admitting its a poor job.

Once bitten twice shy doesn't seem to be a phrase on your radar?

 

[kulture]

To be honest, if they had done such a poor job for me I would not even consider paying. They have not only failed to fulfil the contract to a satisfactory standard, but have also damaged your reputation by sending out sub standard material.

 

[smo]

Its entierly their fault, they are specialists in this, we've used them for years and its not the first time they screwed up but usually they are more forthcoming with admitting its a poor job.

Once bitten twice shy doesn't seem to be a phrase on your radar?

Quite right, we wont be using them again. In 17 years working with them the odd balls-up is to be expected (sadly) but this is of epic proportion by comparison!!!!

 

[internetspaceships]

When exactly did you tell them that the work was substandard?

When it was completed or when the bill was due to be paid?

 

[Rainbow Chasers']

It depends how far you want to take it and what you want done about it.

If you can live with the faulty workmanship, then go for a discount.

If you don't, and want the job done properly, then you will have to use someone else and recover costs from the other company under the legal poor workmanship regs andf take them to small claims court.

In order to have that option, you will have to pay them 'Under Protest'. If you do not, them no court will side with you as you are both in breach of contract in legal terms.

P[ay them, with a letter of complaint for poor workmanship & even a warning of legal action unless rectified, or a refund is received, then they will stand up and take note - but you cannot do that unless they are paid.

The other option is not to pay them, it then becomes a risk of them taking you to court for failing to pay, and the subsequent slagging off that you will get within the trade.

 

[smo]

When exactly did you tell them that the work was substandard?

When it was completed or when the bill was due to be paid?

Somewhere between the two. I let them know as soon as I found out. We werent aware of the mailing problems until they started getting returned undelivered and also coming back with orders.

Similarly with the print, the ones I got were ok, but a broader sample showed some big problems - both were notified as soon as I saw them.

The invoice is not yet due.

 

[OldWelshGuy]

I havnt stated what I wanted as I was expecting them to admit there has been a problem, they did originally but are now backtracking and saying they wont admit to anything!

The problems were spelled out clearly in bullet points to them as soon as it became apparent. No pussyfooting about, spelled out clearly expecting a striaght forward admission with offer to rectify.

The print is out of register, the colours are out and there is no consistancy throughout the job (variance is HUGE), the mailing was sent but several (not an insignificant number) have been returned with incomplete address because the carrier sheet was mis-folded, it now transpires that this is because they mis-printed one side and folded off-centre to compensate, hence all carrier sheets (20,000) are bodged and look crap. This in addition to the crap print makes for a poor job.

Its entierly their fault, they are specialists in this, we've used them for years and its not the first time they screwed up but usually they are more forthcoming with admitting its a poor job.

Maybe we are different then, because I see that as pussyfooting

If the job is as bad as you say, then like others, I wouldn't pay them a penny, and would have said so in my oroginal correspondence. It would jhave been list of problems, you have made my company look unprofessional, your efforts far from helping my business have harmed it, and as a result we will expect a 100% credit for the job.

You then let them negotiate from that point.

 

[Dan@Printwell]

As I work for a company that prints and distributes in a similar way, I have to say what they have done is unacceptable. I know I’m stating the obvious, but I am shocked that anyone treats a customer in such a way, especially a long standing one.

My advice would be to not pay them a penny until they confirm some kind of compensation, as they have not fulfilled their part of the agreement they have with you.

Truly shocking behaviour.

 

[smo]

Thanks for the input chaps.

OldWelshGuy - Perhaps I was being soft, but I find that with long standing relationships such as the one we used to have with them simply outlining the problem should have been enough, obviously something has changed and it clearly wasnt this time so I am having to go back and forth with the hard line approach that perhaps in hine-sight i should have used form the off.

 

[CMYK]

What did you sign off proof wise?

Did they supply physical laser proofs (not just PDF) and SEP's (sample enclosing packs)?

If they did and the job doesn't reflect what you signed off then I don't think you should be paying it.

There are commercial tolerances in print but to be frank if the address isn't even registered then it's game over. The postage wasted will be probably be worth more than the print!

I handle several million DM packs per year and I wouldn't expect to be paid if it was as bad as you say.

If you didn't get hard copy pack proofs to approve before mailing then change your procedures to incorporate them so everybody has point of reference.