Referendum is not legally binding

[Carl "Excel-Expert" Nixon]

So far Brexiters have not been able to provide a viable economic argument. On the other hand Bremainers have put a lot of strong economic points in favour of remaining in EU. The only point Brexiters have is about immigration, which practically directed against immigration outside EU, immigration from commonwealth because of cultural incompatibility. So the question of immigration in support of leaving EU is really misguided. What does it make difference about immigration from commonwealth if we are in or out of EU? Nothing.

A few days ago when opinion polls put Brexiters comfortably ahead of Bremainers, stock market lost about £20.00 billion of its market value and house prices shaken. If Brexiters get it on referendum day, the following day stock market may crash like 1987. Heaven forbids it, if this happens we are going to have a serious recession, which will last at least five years. Property prices crash, millions of people become unemployed and every one has to pay a heavy cost.

Recovery from the recession will be very difficult as we can not compete abroad against far east and become difficult to enter EU and American markets. In order to create a sort of recovery we may have to create a closed economy and give up dependence on export.

Also there is security risks. Scots will leave us, which may also encourage Wales on the same route. We may also lose peace in N. Ireland. If Scotland leaves us because of historical sensitivities and North Sea resource, serious disputes may develop between us and Scotland. So what are we going to do about it? Are we going to war to settle these disputes?

The situation is very obvious. Brexiters are gambling with the future security and economy of this country.

You are completely stuck in a loop. You fall back on Brexiters only been concerned about immigration despite the list of points I have given you. You keep saying "remainers" have all these good economic reasons for remaining but you cant give any.

 

[Newchodge]

I was year out

Thankfully it is not the government that does the majority of the negotiating - it is civil servants and diplomats that does the bulk of the work. People with real experience and know how. The government only gives general direction and signs off at the end.

You need to look way past the current government - they will only be here for the initial negotiations. They are only temporary and will be replaced in a few years. We will then have another government, and another and another - all of who will have a greater flexibility to do things.

You cant make a life long decision based on who happens to be in power for the next few of years. What if your dream government comes in to power in 2020 and cant do anything because they are bound by EU laws and are basically left powerless.

Ok. the negotiations will be carried out by the civil servants who have been in that position for the last many years.

Why do you think they will be able to negotiate anything better than they have achieved over the last few years>

 

[MikeJ]

You mean those unelected civil servants? I thought we'd only have deals made by elected representatives in future?

 

[ShirleyM]

o far Brexiters have not been able to provide a viable economic argument.

Watch this. It explains why leaving the EU will be good for our economy.

 

[MikeJ]

Exactly!!!

 

[Carl "Excel-Expert" Nixon]

Ok. the negotiations will be carried out by the civil servants who have been in that position for the last many years.

Why do you think they will be able to negotiate anything better than they have achieved over the last few years>

The main reason they will be able to negotiate better deals for the UK is because their hands will be untied. At the moment our deal makers are limited in what they can do and who with, by the EU because EU deals over rule everything we can do independently. If the EU has a deal with a country we want to deal directly with, we can not negotiate an independent deal with them.

The EU deals that are done with non-EU countries are designed by a committee of 28 countries and are a one size fits all approach to deal making. So for example, a country in the EU may welcome with open arms cheap imports from China because it needs cheap goods. Meanwhile the UK wants to limit the amount of Chinese produce coming in to the country to protect industries here. What we end is a highly compromised deal that does little to help our industries.

This is a two way street. We may welcome with open arms something that happens to be harmful to one of our EU neighbours. Neither country ends up with the deal fully serving their needs.

 

[Carl "Excel-Expert" Nixon]

You mean those unelected civil servants? I thought we'd only have deals made by elected representatives in future?

They are unelected and they do do all the leg work in putting the deals together.

However our elected MPs and PM are the ones that sign it in to law or not. The civil servants can not sign us up to any deals on their own.

 

[The Byre]

A great deal of misinformation floating about here! I shall go though the various misconceptions one by one (and no, I am not going to voice any opinion of whether we should leave, stay, hide in the closet or emigrate to South America!)

1. Yes, without any doubt, the value of the pound will fall on the news of an exit vote. It will then recover, but the value of the Euro will also fall and recover most of its value. The market always over-reacts to any major change and then regains its senses.

2. The result of the referendum exercises (assuming an exit vote) a massive moral obligation on the PM to write that letter to the Commission that the UK is to leave the EU. Once that letter is written, 24 months later, the UK will automatically cease to be a member, no matter what happens!

3. The PM may involve parliament in that letter, but all the signs are, that he will write that letter as a simple statement of fact, without any further processes being entered into.

4. Once that letter is written, the clock is ticking. It effectively holds a gun to the head of both parliament and to the remaining member states of the EU. If one or the other do not or cannot come to an agreement, or in the case of parliament, pass a bill that ratifies an agreement, the UK leaves without any trading or other agreement in place.

5. If someone somewhere gets bloody-minded (parliament refuses to pass a bill, some member states refuse to agree to a trading agreement) then the status of immigrants, trading tariffs, services such as insurance and banking and investments both here and there will be subject to individual rules, or simply (if everybody throws their toys out of the pram) dealt with as coming from a foreign territory.

All the above is of course, a whole lot of 'ifs'! But each and every one of those 'ifs' is quite likely.

Enjoy the ride!

 

[Chris Ashdown]

What ever happens can the Eu stay the same regardless of if we stay or leave. There is so much dissatisfaction around the whole of the main EU countries with the system regardless of the immigration issues that sooner or later one or more other countries will vote to leave most likely Greece

So the future is very undecided what ever route the vote takes, We can be sure that life as we know it will never be the same again

The Idea was great, the method adapted was crap and enlargement of near third world countries a disaster

 

[Carl "Excel-Expert" Nixon]

What ever happens can the Eu stay the same regardless of if we stay or leave. There is so much dissatisfaction around the whole of the main EU countries with the system regardless of the immigration issues that sooner or later one or more other countries will vote to leave most likely Greece

So the future is very undecided what ever route the vote takes, We can be sure that life as we know it will never be the same again

The Idea was great, the method adapted was crap and enlargement of near third world countries a disaster

Good question - Currently 45% of Europeans want their own referendum and around 33% would vote to leave today, so there is a lot of dissatisfaction out there. I personally believe the flaws with the EU are at its core making in unable to reform.

 

[Clodbuster]

This has given the EU leaders a good boot up the fundamental orifice and I have a strong feeling that the EU charter is going to be altered to prevent further dissatisfaction and probably create an EU we could have lived with.

 

[ShirleyM]

This has given the EU leaders a good boot up the fundamental orifice and I have a strong feeling that the EU charter is going to be altered to prevent further dissatisfaction and probably create an EU we could have lived with.

All the current indications are that the EU is going in it's usual direction, ie. more control, less democracy.