Quick question about gas work

[Bri]

situation - your insurance company say you must use an approved installer to protect your premises, we`re NSI approved so we issue you with a serial number and a paper cert to give to your insurance co.

end of each year our regulator adds up how many we issue and bills us £25.00 each one.

not cheap is it?

Thats the problem I have, I dont have a problem with regulation, I have a problem with the imposers of the regulation making money and capitalising from your hard work.Charging you extortionate( I'm sorry peeps I seem to have problems spelling these days, must be a sign of getting old) fees to confirm what you already know and done, and that cost has to be absorbed by the customer. Isnt it like getting into a taxi, the meters immediately on £5.00 and you havent moved yet.

nope - i mean the actual certificate we issue costs us £25.00 each - the difference between Gas, our industry and Bri`s .............gas is legally regulated, we`ve voluntered for regulatation but Bri`s is self regulated, thats why he`s having such a hard time getting the point.

Yeah thats true, however thats changing too, Nacoss and BAFE are getting together to really impose the 3rd party accreditation on Fire Companys rather than volunteer. I dont think Im having a hard time getting the point, I do get it honest, I'm only trying to say that and I think you hit that nail on the head Steve with self regulation, your own paperwork( call it service docket, worksheet, call form, job sheet, whatever terms you use) should be sufficient proof of competence and surety when youve done a job and signed by both parties. I totally agree a gas cert is a landlord requirement, however if a gas engineer provides a cooker point as part of an existing system it has to be pressure tested, thus proving the system has no leaks,and to walk away from an installation without providing any paperwork or charging an extra £5.00 is ludicrous is all the point I was trying to stress.

And this is another topic for another day, but the customer is bothered about cost, if Saxondale say charges £50.00( hypothetical cost, but you know what I mean, with a little margin put on), to cover his paperwork, more for a service than a non NSI company, its a lot longer process for him to convince the customer what guarantees they are getting by using him. The customer doesnt know and really doesnt want to know the hoops he has had to jump through, the cost to his company to achieve NSI status, Safecontractor, CHAS, ISO 9001, ECA, NICIEC, Idemnity Insurance, Efficacy Cover so you can actually go out and do work for someone.

 

[oph]

Wow, what a thread!
It is NOT mandatory to issue a safety certificate when you repair a boiler. It is mandatory to notify Gas Safe Register of the installation so that a certificate is issed by them to the householder.
A Landlords Gas Safety report must be carried out and issued in rented accomodation every 12 months.
Pads do exist for servicing work but it isnt mandatory to use them. They serve as a memory jogger perhaps for those less experienced

 

[Bri]

Pads do exist for servicing work but it isnt mandatory to use them. They serve as a memory jogger perhaps for those less experienced

That may suit your style of work, bit if I get called to an incident where somebody has died because or Saxondale gets called to a premises that has been ransacked and we have previously pointed out on our paperwork that a part of the system requires attention urgently and this is not taken up by the customer we are clearly absolved of all responsibility after the fact. So the comment above I suggest should be reworded.

 

[oph]

So the comment above I suggest should be reworded.

Sorry I fail to see why.

I have pointed out what the standards are exactly in our industry. I think its a case of our and yours are very different and that it basicly

 

[skyhi2]

Bri,with respect,if Saxondale or Mr Lasagne found a fault,or something not right,on an appliance,they could not just leave a piece of paperwork telling the owner to get it fixed as you may.

They would be duty bound to disconnect/isolate the appliance and slap a condemned notice on it until the fault was fixed.



I think oph may be getting mixed up with his " pads ",as a gas cert is compulsory, ( for landlords,and whoever is paying you for one )and not just a "memory jogger".

Skyhi2.

 

[Bri]

Bri,with respect,if Saxondale or Mr Lasagne found a fault,or something not right,on an appliance,they could not just leave a piece of paperwork telling the owner to get it fixed as you may.

They would be duty bound to disconnect/isolate the appliance and slap a condemned notice on it until the fault was fixed.



I think oph may be getting mixed up with his " pads ",as a gas cert is compulsory, ( for landlords,and whoever is paying you for one )and not just a "memory jogger".

Skyhi2.

...I think with every one I've ever worked for paperwork has always been called something different. I hoped all I was trying to promote is what do you all do and provide to cover your own arses on jobs you go to despite requirments and legislation etc. I'm not trying to force people into corners just trying to exercise some common sense.

For a bit of irony on the subject, we have just received a pad of certs from the association we belong to, to issue to clients after an install, which guarantees basically that we are bona fide installers and our work is guaranteed, the cost......................... 25 watermarked numbered certs £250.00. Just paid £555 too to join a third party accreditation company, waiting for audit date now,for another badge on the van etc.Hoist by my own petard eh!!

 

[Tej]

.Hoist by my own petard eh!!

Hats off to you... you are honest about it.

 

[skyhi2]

and double bri

That is outrageous,seems the fat cats are getting fatter,while the decent,hard working blokes are having to shell out for reams of " paperwork " to earn a decent crust

Your petard is indeed hoisted

Skyhi2.

 

[oph]

Bri,with respect,if Saxondale or Mr Lasagne found a fault,or something not right,on an appliance,they could not just leave a piece of paperwork telling the owner to get it fixed as you may.

They would be duty bound to disconnect/isolate the appliance and slap a condemned notice on it until the fault was fixed.



I think oph may be getting mixed up with his " pads ",as a gas cert is compulsory, ( for landlords,and whoever is paying you for one )and not just a "memory jogger".

Skyhi2.

Erm, no I dont think I am.

I said a landlords gas safety report has to be issued every 12 months. Fact.

Paperwork doesent need to be issued for servicing work. The only thing that needs to be done paperwork wise regarding servicing is the filling in of the service schedule on the Benchmark logbook which has been necessary since Benchmarks introduction in October 1999. Boilers installed before this date didnt have benchmark logbooks issued with them.
However, if something was found on the appliance that was in contravention of the 1998 Gas Safety Regs then a warning notice would have to be issued.

 

[skyhi2]

Yep,got ya oph,misunderstood your "memory jogger " thing.

But if you serviced a boiler you would leave a receipt/invoice/guarantee wouldnt you ?,unless it was a " freebie "

Skyhi2.

 

[oph]

well, a receipt if they ask, an invoice is something I'm strying to come away from purely as it takes up too much time at the weekend

Gaurentee? Nothing to gaurentee! Its like servicing a car, it dosent mean the clutch or gearbox wont go in the future

 

[Bri]

Erm, no I dont think I am.

I said a landlords gas safety report has to be issued every 12 months. Fact.

Paperwork doesent need to be issued for servicing work. The only thing that needs to be done paperwork wise regarding servicing is the filling in of the service schedule on the Benchmark logbook which has been necessary since Benchmarks introduction in October 1999. Boilers installed before this date didnt have benchmark logbooks issued with them.
However, if something was found on the appliance that was in contravention of the 1998 Gas Safety Regs then a warning notice would have to be issued.

This quite an interesting statement, guys we need to pin down how we do and record our work collectively.

In the gas world- paperwork doesnt need to be issued for servicng work
In the Fire/ Security world- yes it does

Right my overiding fear is engineers being caught with your pants down by not covering your arse. How do you manage your business? If you dont record service visits.The benchmark logbook is the same as our industry I guess, its an onsite log of visits for reference and history.Its an aide memoire.

 

[skyhi2]

Well here`s my 2 cents Bri.

If a boiler is serviced,the date,time and signature is recorded on the boiler itself ( usually on a sticker on the boiler,sometimes not).

A seperate invoice ( more detailed than the sticker ) is then issued to the owner of the boiler ( Landlord,Homeowner,Caravan Dweller or whatever ) for what has been carried out.

Owner then pays invoice,everyones happy,arses duly covered.

The " benchmark " log book is rarely issued these days,although some manufacturers still do i believe.

Just to add to what oph was saying re a fault on a gas appliance,not only would a warning notice be issued,they would be disconnected.

Fire safety is ( in my opinion ) far more stricter with the paperwork side of it,sh1t,you only have to sneeze near a breakglass and you have to fill a form in and examine it for cracks

Like i said,just my two cents.

Skyhi2.

 

[Bri]

... we live and die by paperwork. I understand that each trade has their own way of recording their visit.

I wonder how that works for plasterers and carpenters and brickies also?