Question temporary NI number

[krustyrj]

Hi everybody
I'm from Brazil and I'm planning to open a business in Uk next year.
I have an Italian passport aswell.

My business is simple: i'll import a product from Brazil and i'll sell it for some stores and at an e-commerce website that i'll create.
My product is general used in the summer (i prefer not to tell now), I'll arrive in midle january and i'd like to have my business ready in midle march.

I'll ask for a friend to change one of the bills of december to my name so I can get a proof of address or I'll open an account at Abbey (people told me that they don't ask for this proof..is this true?)

questions:
- With a proof of address ok, how long does it takes to open an account in UK?
- After opening the account i'll aply for a NI number, do you know if I can apply for a sole trader or Limited company with the temporary number or i'll need to wait those 8 weeks until I receive my NI number?

I really appreciate any help
sorry for my english

Thanks very much

 

[krustyrj]

up........

 

[Tom McClelland]

Any bank that doesn't check you out pretty carefully when you open an account is probably breaking the law, so I suspect that all the major banks will have strong identity checks. Using a fake addressed bill would certainly be fraud so you shouldn't do it (and usually one bill is not enough)

You certainly don't need an NI number to start a limited company, but again there will be identity checks for you to be a director of a UK company. You should engage a UK accountant to help you with this, and to deal with your UK tax affairs in general, or you could end up paying far more tax than you need to.

I don't know about the sole-trader situation without an NI number. But I would guess that you can probably start trading as soon as you notify HMRC and apply for one. I'm assuming that you'll check that it will be legal for you to do whatever work you're planning to do in the UK. There are tough laws about foreign workers.

 

[krustyrj]

Hey Tom
Thanks for the answer

You certainly don't need an NI number to start a limited company, but again there will be identity checks for you to be a director of a UK company. You should engage a UK accountant to help you with this, and to deal with your UK tax affairs in general, or you could end up paying far more tax than you need to.

I think that if I have the Italian Passport I have the same rights and obliagtions that a UK citizen or am I wrong?

And about the accountant this is exactly what I gonna do when I arrive in UK.

I don't know about the sole-trader situation without an NI number. But I would guess that you can probably start trading as soon as you notify HMRC and apply for one.

Thats the problem. I'll live in my friends house and the rental includes all the bills. If I need a Ni number i'll not have a way to proof address

anyway
thanks again for helping

 

[Tom McClelland]

I think that if I have the Italian Passport I have the same rights and obliagtions that a UK citizen or am I wrong?

An Italian passport isn't the same thing as Italian citizenship. I don't know how the UK government regards non-EU nationals who have EU passports. You'd need a specialist to tell you that. Perhaps everything will be fine.

 

[krustyrj]

An Italian passport isn't the same thing as Italian citizenship. I don't know how the UK government regards non-EU nationals who have EU passports. You'd need a specialist to tell you that. Perhaps everything will be fine.

I have a dual citizenship: brazilian and italian.
I have already worked in france with no problems...i don't believe this gonna cause any trouble....my big question is about the NI number and the bank account that i'll need to have to start selling things

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

No bank will open an account without valid Proof of Id. It is against the law (ML regulations)

To get an NI number you need to be attend an interview, details here:

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/MoneyTa...rSupport/BeginnersGuideToBenefits/DG_10014073

 

[krustyrj]

Elaine, any idea of an easy way to get an address proof (any website that i can register online and send me letters or any bills)?

Do you know if I can register as limited company or sole tarder NI with a temporary number or only with the final NI number?

thanks again for any help

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

Elaine, any idea of an easy way to get an address proof (any website that i can register online and send me letters or any bills)?

no - an proof of address needs to be exactly as it says, proof that you live there. Anything else would be fraud!

 

[JamesCartwright]

I don't believe you need an NI number to register a limited company, however, you will need ID and proof of address if you set it up online, as with a bank account (money laundering regulations again).

 

[krustyrj]

I found this website
taxback . com /uk-nin-assistance.asp

they say that they can help me do this things online ans before I arrive UK:

- Open bank account
Banks in the UK require proof of address, a letter of employment or a utility bill in your name in order for you to open an account with them. This can be very difficult if you've just arrived in the country and are still finding your feet.
Taxback.com has partnerships with three of the biggest banks in the UK – Barclays, HSBC and Lloyds – and we can help you open an account. All we need is proof of ID and a correspondence address.
We charge £35 for this service.

- Aply for NIN
To get a National Insurance Number (NIN) in the UK you need to apply at your local JobCentre Plus Office and it can take months. Taxback.com can organise an NIN for you and reduce the application process to weeks.
We organise your NIN interview within 24 hours of your registration with us. We get you the earliest possible appointment available at the JobCentre closest to your home or work. The usual timeline for the interview to take place is three to four working weeks, but if you pre-register with us before you get to the UK, the interview can be arranged in advance so you can have it as soon as possible when you arrive.
The National Insurance Agency issues your NIN within two working weeks of the interview to your UK home address.
For National Insurance Number applications we charge a fee of £40.


I had already worked with TAXBACK when I went to US to work for a season and get my work tax back. They do it very profesionaly and efficient but I'm a litle woried about theses two things that are saying that I can do online and BEFORE arrive UK.
I'll try to call then but if anyone have any notice about it

thanks

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

On the NIN you have to attend the interview - so am not sure what you are paying for there.

The bank account - they still need proof of id! So what is the difference?

 

[evil_grrrl666]

Regarding the bank account... check Lloyds TSB, when I came to the UK (1.5 years ago) and wanted to open my first bank account, all they needed for EU citizens was the passport itself, no address proof. Maybe they're still doing this, in which case you would just need to bring your Italian passport.

And as Elaine says, what exactly are you paying for regarding the NI number? It's quite easy to do yourself, just call up the helpline and schedule the interview yourself - I got an appointment within 2 weeks of calling, same for a colleague of mine; I think his interview was within 1.5 weeks of calling the helpline. They will tell you what all you need to bring with you. Making these people do it is a waste of £40 IMHO.

For more information you may want to look through the HMRC Website. hmrc.gov.uk/migrantworkers/index.htm - sorry couldn't make it a link cos the forum is not allowing me to.

 

[krustyrj]

Regarding the bank account... check Lloyds TSB, when I came to the UK (1.5 years ago) and wanted to open my first bank account, all they needed for EU citizens was the passport itself, no address proof. Maybe they're still doing this, in which case you would just need to bring your Italian passport.

Thanks for your answer
Some websites also told me about these some banks that don't ask for address proof like Abbey and HSBC.

And as Elaine says, what exactly are you paying for regarding the NI number? It's quite easy to do yourself, just call up the helpline and schedule the interview yourself - I got an appointment within 2 weeks of calling, same for a colleague of mine; I think his interview was within 1.5 weeks of calling the helpline. They will tell you what all you need to bring with you. Making these people do it is a waste of £40 IMHO.

I believe that the big problem when i arrive and try to apply for the NI will be the address proof again. After I creat an account in the bank i'll receive the bank letters in my address so this gonna work as a PoA, but before this I wont have a way to start applying for the NI do you understand the problem?

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

Thanks for your answer
Some websites also told me about these some banks that don't ask for address proof like Abbey and HSBC.

Can you give examples please.

All banks require some proof of id - as I and others have said it is the law which is there for a good reason.

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

For the NIN see this for proof of id:

http://www.jobcentreplus.gov.uk/JCP/Customers/WorkingAgeBenefits/Proofofidentity/index.html

'Evidence of identity' interview

Jobcentre Plus will use this interview to check that you are who you say you are, where applicable, your eligibility to work in the United Kingdom and to protect your national insurance and security accounts.


If you don't have any official documents

If you haven't got any official documents you still have to go to the interview. The information you are able to provide might be sufficient to prove your identity.


So given what you say I am failing to see the problem here.

 

[krustyrj]

Elaine
Of course I believe that's the law but like evil_grrrl666 said I think that sometimes some banks employees maybe don't ask ... I don't know but she is not the first person in a forum that tell me this
for example:

easyexpat .com /en/london/practical/bank.htm

Taiwoo - 17/05/2009abbeyi have found that abbey is the easiest for foreigners. they dont really require proof of address. just go in there and ask for a basic account. hsbc will also give you an account without proof of address but will charge alot of money.

 

[elaine@cheapaccounting]

well try that then - and please do let us know how you go. I would be very interested to see if you can open an Abbey account this way.

Good luck

 

[Joanne_UK]

An Italian passport isn't the same thing as Italian citizenship. I don't know how the UK government regards non-EU nationals who have EU passports. You'd need a specialist to tell you that. Perhaps everything will be fine.

Having an Italian passwort means that he has his Italien citizenship (because the only way to get a passport is to be the citizen of a country!).

He has dual citizenship so he is a EU national and can work/live in the UK.

 

[Tom McClelland]

Having an Italian passwort means that he has his Italien citizenship (because the only way to get a passport is to be the citizen of a country!).

He has dual citizenship so he is a EU national and can work/live in the UK.

It isn't true that the only way to get a passport is to be the citizen of the issuing country. For example numerous people round the world who aren't British citizens hold British passports.

And he didn't claim dual nationality in his original post. He may have dual nationality between Brazil and Italy (in which case I'm sure he is fine to work anywhere in the EU), but that isn't what he said. There is a difference.

 

[david poole]

temporay NI number works like this.
first two letters are your initials, followed by date of birth and your sex

aa 01 01 76 m

 

[evil_grrrl666]

Elaine
Of course I believe that's the law but like evil_grrrl666 said I think that sometimes some banks employees maybe don't ask ... I don't know but she is not the first person in a forum that tell me this
for example:

Actually, it's not that some employees don't ask for address proof - it's a policy the bank put in place, they even stated on their brochures and leaflets that EU citizens do not require address proof, as long as they show their passport.

And I don't fully remember, but I don't think you need proof of address for a national insurance number. Even if you did, going through a service and paying them to schedule an interview as soon as you enter the country isn't going to change what the job centre does and does not ask for during your interview. It may make sense to schedule the interview yourself, so you can ask them on the phone exactly which documents to bring. And then while you wait those few weeks for the interview you can try to collect any document you do not have yet.

As far as I recall, upon entering the UK, and getting my bank account set up with Lloyds, I had no problems with anybody asking for address proof and giving me a hard time about not having any, except for the local GP. So unless you need a doctor's appointment straight away, you should be fine until you get your first bank statement or other proof.

 

[Zeno]

Actually, it's not that some employees don't ask for address proof - it's a policy the bank put in place, they even stated on their brochures and leaflets that EU citizens do not require address proof, as long as they show their passport.

I am sorry but I would be hugely surprised if this was true. If it were the bank in question would be breaking the law to the extent of massive penalties at the minimum to prison sentences for those involved at worst.

There is no way that any bank would have it as an actual policy not to get proof of address for anyone opening any sort of account.

 

[Tom McClelland]

temporay NI number works like this.
first two letters are your initials, followed by date of birth and your sex

aa 01 01 76 m

Temporary NI numbers should no longer be used. For example payroll software which accepted them would fail HMRC accreditation.

If you don't have a proper NI number then leave NI number questions on official documents blank.

 

[Joanne_UK]

It isn't true that the only way to get a passport is to be the citizen of the issuing country. For example numerous people round the world who aren't British citizens hold British passports.

And he didn't claim dual nationality in his original post. He may have dual nationality between Brazil and Italy (in which case I'm sure he is fine to work anywhere in the EU), but that isn't what he said. There is a difference.

I think you are confusing residency with citizenship.
There is no way to have a British passport without being a British citizen.

" The passport has a traditional role as a document of national identity, as well as an aid to travel." (Check the passport website)

You do not have to live in England to have a British passport but you have to be a British citizen to be allowed to apply for a British passport.

As an example I have both Canadian and British citizenship and I have both passport, I can work and live in both country as well as EU countries (because I have a British citizenship).

 

[krustyrj]

I think you are confusing residency with citizenship.
There is no way to have a British passport without being a British citizen.

" The passport has a traditional role as a document of national identity, as well as an aid to travel." (Check the passport website)

exactly
My father is Italian so I could get my Italian citizenship. If my father wasn't italian I only could get an italian citizenhsip after living in Italy for a long time and starting a process trying to get the citizenship...its a hard way

It's good to know that to apply for a NI I don't need to have a Proof of Address...I'll arrive in January and i want to start my business as fast as I can and don't stay spending money for months waiting documents.

About the bank I saw on the internet about a HSBC Passport Account
. It's an easy way to get an account as you arrive in UK and I don't know how but everebody says that you don't need a PoA.
the site is: hsbc. co. uk /1/2/personal/current-accounts/passport

Thanks everybody that helps

 

[Tom McClelland]

I think you are confusing residency with citizenship.
There is no way to have a British passport without being a British citizen.

" The passport has a traditional role as a document of national identity, as well as an aid to travel." (Check the passport website)

You do not have to live in England to have a British passport but you have to be a British citizen to be allowed to apply for a British passport.

As an example I have both Canadian and British citizenship and I have both passport, I can work and live in both country as well as EU countries (because I have a British citizenship).

http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/index/tr...s-who-are-eligible-for-a-british-passport.htm

Nationality groups who are eligible for a British passport

You are eligible for a British passport if you are a British citizen, a British overseas territories citizen, a British national (overseas), a British overseas citizen, a British subject or a British protected person.

In any case I note that the OP has now clarified that he is indeed an Italian citizen, so the entire point is moot.

 

[evil_grrrl666]

I am sorry but I would be hugely surprised if this was true. If it were the bank in question would be breaking the law to the extent of massive penalties at the minimum to prison sentences for those involved at worst.

There is no way that any bank would have it as an actual policy not to get proof of address for anyone opening any sort of account.

Well that may very well be, however it *was* on their brochures at the time when I opened my account in January 2008, and I did *not* have any address proof of any sort because I was living with relatives at the time. Everybody at the bank was very upfront that they offer this service for EU citizens who just moved to the UK and would not have address proof yet.

Frankly, I'm not really concerned about whether it is illegal and what penalties the bank may face. Hopefully whoever introduced this practice has evaluated the risks properly in advance. However it is relevant to the person starting this thread and other people who move to the UK because many end up in a very difficult situation of new employers asking for a bank account, the bank asking for address proof, the landlord asking for a credit check and everything seeming impossible without all of those things being in place at the same time.