Proposed Pizza Takeaway

[piperjock]

Hi all,

I am currently researching a new business and I would really like to start a Pizza takeaway shop. I have a clear image of what the business will be and how it will be different to all the others and I think I could make it work.

I am cvurrently self employed as a designer but hate my job. It is however quite well paid but I want a real business that I can grow rather than just a job.

I am o.k. with the business side of things but catering and retail is a new area for me. I will not be working in the shop myself and will try to do it around my day job initially.

I have some questions about commercial propety and would be grateful for any advice. I know I would need A5 approval but am unsure of the process. If I find a property in a suitable location do I need to take out a lease or commit anything before I go for the planning permission? What will it take/cost to do this? If I get permission could the unit be already let to someone else by the time it comes through?

Would I be best waiting for somewhere to come up that already has the approval and has been a takeaway before or is the process of converting from say A1 to A5 pretty painless?

Regards

 

[Drpepper]

I will not be working in the shop myself and will try to do it around my day job initially.
Regards

That will be your downfall, sorry but true in retail.

 

[mike.davis]

You can't grow a business if your not there full time for the startup of it, it will only run as good as the person in charge, and if your not there your solely relying on somebody else.

You have to devote all your attention on the start of a business - its just too important to do part time.

 

[kjmcculloch]

Hi,

I would have said the same as the other two posters until I read a book called The E-Myth. Personally I feel that as long as you are fully involved at a strategic level and know the inner workings of the business there are no reasons that I can think of why the business would not operate just as well, even at an early stage with someone else doing the manual work, even a shop manager running the day to day stuff.

As long as everyone knows exactly what the are doing and their level of authority I can't see any serious issues.

Good Luck

Kris

 

[Lee Jones Jnr]

There speaks a man who is not in retail.

 

[Drpepper]

Hi,

I would have said the same as the other two posters until I read a book called The E-Myth. Personally I feel that as long as you are fully involved at a strategic level and know the inner workings of the business there are no reasons that I can think of why the business would not operate just as well, even at an early stage with someone else doing the manual work, even a shop manager running the day to day stuff.

As long as everyone knows exactly what the are doing and their level of authority I can't see any serious issues.

Good Luck

Kris

Wrong, wrong, wrong.. you can't run a retail business UNTIL you understand the day to day running of the place. This can't be learn't from books or given as advice as each business is individual. You WILL need to be in the shop/take away for at least a year before you understand the trends, operating procedures, customer requirements etc, etc, etc.

Sorry, this is based on experience rather than a book

 

[mike.davis]

Wrong, wrong, wrong.. you can't run a retail business UNTIL you understand the day to day running of the place. This can't be learn't from books or given as advice as each business is individual. You WILL need to be in the shop/take away for at least a year before you understand the trends, operating procedures, customer requirements etc, etc, etc.

Sorry, this is based on experience rather than a book

I completely agree with you.

And quite hilariously I have read the E-book series a year or so ago, and I can tell you that 'kjmcculloch' has completely missed the point, the whole premise of the book is telling you to get your business to a stage in which it can run without you, not about starting the business without being there - infact it strongly suggests otherwise.

It seems you have chose to pick and chose which parts of the book you listened to

 

[patientlady]

You are a designer
Why on earth would you start a business that you know nothing about, not run, and take on the risks? We have around 10 different Pizza styles ops in our town - tried and tested and all fighting for the same business...
Why not start a business using your current skills?

 

[Dot Design]

You are a designer
Why not start a business using your current skills?

Probably because it's also a highly competitive industry.

I have no experience of the retail industry other than working in a few places when a teenager. But like some have said starting a business when you're not around to run it and relying on someone else to drive it sounds like you're doomed to fail.

It's going to take hard work, 18 hour days initially to get it up and running and the staff member who you leave to run it won't have the same passive or drive you the owner has.

You would only need a couple of bad days or a hand full of pissed off customers in order to destroy your business.

But this is just my opinion.

 

[drj1910]

100% agree on the fact that you have to be there for long hours at the start, though it is the kind of business that if you have a firm grip on the staff and their duties that you can with time let staff run the outlet.

As for moving into an industry you dont know, why not? if we all stuck to what we know then it wouldnt be a challenge!

Research well and dont rush into it, location is mighty important.

The planning side of things can be a nightmare, if you have found a place that is say a1, speak to the agents, they generally have a good idea if a change of use is a possibility, you can arrange a meeting with the council`s planning department with your proposals before you sign any papers. speak to them, it will make life easier in time.

 

[piperjock]

Thanks for the replies.

What I meant was I will not be cooking the food. I will be relying on staff to do that but I will most definately be there as well. I will be trying to run it alongside my dayjob at first so cannot be there all the time but would definately be there every day.

As for the design, I am actually doing very well at the moment and have been given a HUGE contract. I just dont enjoy it though so am trying to get out of it.

 

[kjmcculloch]

don't you just love a friendly forum

 

[Digger]

don't you just love a friendly forum

this is like warm cuddles compared to some

 

[oldeagleeye]

How much budget you got OP. Shops with possible A5 use fetch a high premium. Prime position start thinking £50K in a big town and then of course your'll need a big bike with a basket on the front for deliveries. Like PL we have a dozen pizza outlets scrambling over the same trade. Franky they will eat you for dinner if you don't know the industry.

Stick to the day job matey and get a job as a barman in the evening if your bored.

Rob

 

[Drpepper]

don't you just love a friendly forum

I think the OP came looking for advice, which is what he got from people who have been there and done it. We could all just say "yea, that'll be fine you only need to be there an hour a week" - what would that achieve?

I HAVE seem exactly this problem, a friend thought he could start a new business (Juice bar) and just be "back of house" as he called it - basically meant he thought he could just sit back and take the profits. As it happened there were no profits as the business had no real direction and the staff really weren't motivated, closed 12 months later owing £10,000's.

You do without doubt need to be fully committed and hands on with a new full time business, even more so retail as its customer facing, and however you set it up you will be changing things many times in the first year, and your very naive if you think otherwise.

 

[vvaannmmaann]

These people have 145 pizza shops for sale across the UK.It will give you an idea of prices.
http://uk.businessesforsale.com/uk/search/Pizza-Delivery-Businesses-for-sale

 

[Drpepper]

These people have 145 pizza shops for sale across the UK.It will give you an idea of prices.
http://uk.businessesforsale.com/uk/search/Pizza-Delivery-Businesses-for-sale

Isn't that interesting, they all (only looked at the first page) claim to be making a net profit of £100,000 (up to - so probably 50p!) on a turnover of £200,000 yet some are selling for just £40k. Methinks there is a lot of bull being advertised there. There is one that is probably more realistic though with a turnover of £72,500 and net profit of £14,000.

Also the OP needs to look at why there are so many for sale.

 

[philipmoll]

Good idea but hard to put into practice. Now you shoud do much search about it before starting this Pizza takeaway shop

 

[mike.davis]

don't you just love a friendly forum

Fortunately this is a business forum, and sometimes the truth hurts. What is not needed as advice in a business forum is "I read this book once", experienced people have given there advice and it is good advice which should be listened to.

 

[piperjock]

Thanks again for all the replies.

The reason for me not being there full time is so I can still bring in an income from my day job. That way I will not take a penny from the business myself and can concentrate on refining it. I will be there every day but the shop would need to open around 5 and I can't be there until around 7 and may have to leave before closing. At weekends I will be full time.

There are many many pizza takeaways in most built up areas, the thing is they are all pretty much carbon copies of each other. Put any 2 menus together and they will be offering the same food. I really do think something different would work. Just look at the rise of subways. I have been travelling around the USA looking at ideas and I think I have come up with some good features that would make my business stand out.

If you look at Dominos, Papa Johns etc. these companies are all doing well despite the recession. In my local Dominos they queue out the door and the telephone is constantly ringing. They must have 10 staff in there at any time. These places are charging £15 for a pizza and peaople are buying.

 

[Drpepper]

"If you look at Dominos, Papa Johns etc. these companies are all doing well despite the recession. In my local Dominos they queue out the door and the telephone is constantly ringing. They must have 10 staff in there at any time. These places are charging £15 for a pizza and peaople are buying."

Getting yourself a Domino's franchise may be the way to go then, they have multi-million pound advertising budgets that pull in the customers - I'm guessing your budget is somewhat smaller.

 

[Lee Jones Jnr]

If I were looking to open a pizzeria I think I would try to get the shop next door to my local Dominos.

 

[Rhodes100]

Franchised businesses such as Dominos spend a lot of money on advertising and people trust the quality of the pizza they will get, however how many local people will trust Piperjock Pizza from day one.

There are plenty of pizza takeaways struggling because they have got it wrong, but as you say if you get it right in catering you get the rewards.

The thing about pizza takeaways is that a large proportion of the budget has to be all about sending out thousands of leaflets constantly, because they work.

Also look for a main road with parking availability near lots of chimney stacks.

Dont be concerned about why businesses are for sale it does not prove that it is a bad business to start up just be concerned about whether your plans will work.

 

[numbergroup]

It's an easy business to start up, my friend has three Pizza shops/delivery.

Most important factor is the location, followed by planning ....

Take your time to get these right. In terms of start up costs £12k is more than enough, get the price/service right and in the correct location you'll do well.

 

[Dot Design]

It's an easy business to start up, my friend has three Pizza shops/delivery.

Most important factor is the location, followed by planning ....

Take your time to get these right. In terms of start up costs £12k is more than enough, get the price/service right and in the correct location you'll do well.

and think about all that free pizza!

(I know, most helpful comment of the day)

 

[Drpepper]

It's an easy business to start up, my friend has three Pizza shops/delivery.

Most important factor is the location, followed by planning ....

Take your time to get these right. In terms of start up costs £12k is more than enough, get the price/service right and in the correct location you'll do well.

Start with just 12k and you'll be having cashflow problems from month two and have a good chance of going bust by month 6, if not sooner.

 

[numbergroup]

Dr pepper,

I said he needs 12k to start up not run his business !! A pizza oven, prep area and fridges cost around £8k. £2k to referb the shop, £0 for a free memorable telephone number (lol), and the rest on promotion....

 

[Esk247]

Stick to the day job.

Want to know why all the pizza shops sell the same food? there was the answer..right in the question..SELL..they know this food sells, its fast, quick, cheap, customers recognise a pizza or a burger or a kebab when they're pished! They don't want a Rare Special Dipped Luxury Truffle with Wine, they want a flippin kebab mate, £2.40, thanks, ta, cya later.

Think you can open 9-5? pah! try 6pm to 6am, late night deliveries, cans of coke and 3 different sizes of pizza (any more and it gets confusing).

It's long hours, messy work, things go wrong, you'll get someone put your window through at 3am and you've got to try and understand what some drunk is saying when he's trying to order a pizza. You have to take orders by telephone for late night delivery, people have gone home drunk and they fancy a massive pizza.

20kfor a startup wouldn't even cover the rent on your shop.

If you really want to get in to business, do your day job, research some markets and do some practice runs on things like ebay, nothing too massive as you won't sell sod all first of all, but it gives you an idea of what every day customers can be like. Save some money in a separate account while you're doing a few years of researching and experimenting. Then see if you still want to take the plunge, at least you'll have some savings.

 

[Drpepper]

Dr pepper,

I said he needs 12k to start up not run his business !! A pizza oven, prep area and fridges cost around £8k. £2k to referb the shop, £0 for a free memorable telephone number (lol), and the rest on promotion....

3 months rent deposit, 3 months rent in advance, wages (remember he's not going to be there), legal fees, business rates, electricity, gas, insurance, stock, sign writing, tills, uniforms, consumables.........

 

[oldeagleeye]

Dr pepper,

I said he needs 12k to start up not run his business !! A pizza oven, prep area and fridges cost around £8k. £2k to referb the shop, £0 for a free memorable telephone number (lol), and the rest on promotion....

Ain't you forgetting something chum like a hefty premium perhaps. At least 3 months rent in advance. Public liability insurance and Health & Safety certs for shop and staff. Staff recruitment and boy oh boy go wrong there and you race ruin. Young mum - pregnant. 1 years paid leave. Special room to feed baby when she comes back.

Sorry OP. I repeat. No retail experience. No brainer. Jellied Eels might go down well in the States though.

Rob

 

[Parthelan]

Young mum - pregnant. 1 years paid leave.

Erm, it's been a while since you dealt with a pregnant employee

Women don't get 52 weeks paid, and employers claim back the maternity pay.

Where's the problem?

 

[mike.davis]

Erm, it's been a while since you dealt with a pregnant employee

Women don't get 52 weeks paid, and employers claim back the maternity pay.

Where's the problem?

The point in the post still remains, you just picked a small segment which was probably meant as a joke.

 

[Parthelan]

The point in the post still remains, you just picked a small segment which was probably meant as a joke.

I didnt disagree with the other points - this statement however

Staff recruitment and boy oh boy go wrong there and you race ruin. Young mum - pregnant. 1 years paid leave.

is misleading and factually incorrect and following on from the comment of facing ruin could be seen to be implying employing young women is dangerous as they'll get pregnant and screw your business!!

I missed the humour.

 

[Naughty Vend]

I understand everything being said about "employment" and whilst it might not be too P.C. to say so, it's a sad hard truth that the costs of having employees can kill your business... the what I am entitled to way of thinking and paternal leave etc.

Essentially you probably have as much chance of running the shop as the people you employ, actually they'll most likely have more retail experience than you by the sounds of things but that doesn't detract from one major difference between you and them. It's your money at risk. Frankly if a stranger approached you and asked for the capital to get this pizza business going, where you wouldn't be involved on a daily basis but would have a say as a silent partner... would you invest? Do you reckon there's a reason when McDonalds recruit franchisees they work in a location frying burgers for a wee while to learn the basics? I would say so...

If you want to do this, as a minimum ask your employer for three months leave and concentrate on the pizza shop and then you can decide if you want to return. Should you be unable to contemplate that risk / exposure then you are not entreprenurial in nature, stick to the day job.

 

[Naughty Vend]

If you look at Dominos, Papa Johns etc. these companies are all doing well despite the recession. In my local Dominos they queue out the door and the telephone is constantly ringing. They must have 10 staff in there at any time. These places are charging £15 for a pizza and peaople are buying.

The majority of that cost is advertising and the costs of the franchisor, not limited to supply of consumable product from the franchisor and royalty payable... most pizza franchisees are "pre-churn" at the moment meaning the only real winner is the pizza brand franchisor.

 

[oldeagleeye]

QUOTE.

is misleading and factually incorrect and following on from the comment of facing ruin could be seen to be implying employing young women is dangerous as they'll get pregnant and screw your business!! I missed the humour.

How is that factually misleading. It is an EEC directive which will soon be implemented in this country much I fear to the detriment of most women because employers will not only have to pay for time off and there are many young women out there that treat pregnancy as an illness. That means forking out wages for no productivity and when the woman has had the baby employers will be forced to provide a screened off area for breast feeding. Oh and lets not forget a special container service circa £20 quid a week on top to get rid of those stinking nappies.

There was no humour then Tom. Just a fact. This is EEC pc gone mad and it is not going to do any woman below the child bearing age one little bit of of good at all. There isn't even a limit on the age of the baby for breast feeding. You could be talking then 4 -5 years of disruption and all for the sake of a few purists.

Rob

 

[vvaannmmaann]

Quite right.
Lets keep the women pregnant and bare foot in the kitchen - making pizzas.

 

[oldeagleeye]

Not my woman guys. E Pankhurst & Co didn't chain themselves to railings only to ruin their nail varnish in mixing pizza dough. Them there nails are there to keep men happy in other ways. That is why I don't mind cleaner her car too.

BTW. News update. Just been announced that food commodity prices have shot up by more than 15% and even then there is going to be a world shortage of cereials - flour - sugar and cotton and now we have the huge flooding in Auusieland and Pakistan to factor in. Supermarket prices alone are set to really test the consumer. A takeaway will be soon be a real luxury.

You can't say you ain't been warned OP.

Rob

 

[patientlady]

A few years back I worked for a pest control company, selling pest control contracts. The top easiest sale being takeaway restaurants. However the number one most difficult was Chinese and the second most difficult to sell to was Pizza.
The Chinese would spend the money and apparently cockroaches compliment the flavour!
The Pizza parlours however wanted to buy but couldn't because they just couldnt afford to. Buying a franchise is an absolute no no as its a similar industry to the licensed trade 'sewn & stiched up'! Oh and rats absolutely love dough and roaches the heat

 

[Parthelan]

How is that factually misleading.

It's misleading because women don't get paid 52 weeks maternity leave. They are entitled to take up to 52 weeks leave - with some exceptions - police women and women in the armed services come to mind I think - but those 52 weeks are leave entitlement, not paid entitlement.
Even temporary accommodations to shift paterns can be refused as long as the employer can make a sound business case. (But in most cases they'd be hard pushed to do so).