proof of delivery

[frank]

Right I am in disputes with a company over delivery of goods etc and also payments and quality issues of a certain product they have been supplying me.

I am refusing to pay for goods and my supplier has threatend to take me to court (well his merchant account) rang me today and if I dont make full payment by tommorow then they will be taking the next step of legal action.

I have never signed a contract and have never signed for a delivery of anything from this company, and they deliver once a month.

Now am I right in saying that if this company has no proof of delivery, or I am not signed into any contract, that I am not legally obliged to pay for the goods as the company has no proof of delivery ?

Would appreciate an urgent response please

Thanks
Frank

 

[Cornish Steve]

It sounds like you received the goods but question their quality. Is that the case? If so, have you returned those goods? If not, why not?

 

[bwglaw]

There is a contract between parties regardless of whether you have signed a document or not. There appears to be a previous course of dealings. What needs to be ascertained at this point is what are the terms and any conditions of the contract. This may address the delivery issue

I am not clear how you can dispute the quality of the product if proof of delivery is an issue, or is this a seperate product?

Now am I right in saying that if this company has no proof of delivery, or I am not signed into any contract, that I am not legally obliged to pay for the goods as the company has no proof of delivery ?

Simply put, no


Jonathan

 

[frank]

right basically It is 2 seperate issues tbh.

I have had quality issues with some months products (they are customer specific printed items so not run of the mill items)

Basically I have never ever signed any agreement at all.

My supplier has lost me lots of customers by missing my deadlines and also quality issues with the product he has been supplying.

Now I have never ever signed a proof of delivery and I am very reluctant to pay the bills as alot of my customers have refused to pay mine based on these products being crap and not right basically.

I want to know if I said to the merchant bank who are chasing me, I want proof of delivery for the last 3-4 months otherwise I am refusing to pay the bill. What would be their response (I know for 100% that they will not be able to provide this as I have never given any signitaure etc)

Will it end in this - basically no proof of delivery, no money owed ?

Thanks Alot
Frank

 

[bwglaw]

Will it end in this - basically no proof of delivery, no money owed ?

No.

The issues are confusing here. They need to be seperated if they are seperate issues and then look again to see if they can be connected.

Are you claiming:

Product 1, of very poor quality (customer specific printed items)

Product 2, never received (payment in dispute?)

Have you complained about the poor quality of product 1? Have you paid for product 1?

What is product 2? can you confirm you have never received the product?

How much is in dispute?

Try and be specific as possible

 

[frank]

Bwglaw,

Right ok then forget item 1, lets just concentrate on the items "not received"

I am trying to be inspecific as it is a public board lol

However the amount in dispute is approx £2500

I did receive the items but I am unhappy to pay for them as this company has basically caused my venture to crumble. There is no proof of delivery and also they still delivered items after the 30 day "money due period" and also over my credit limit. So my argument is this :

Why would I pay for something I had not recieved
Why would a company still deliver me goods 2 months after I still hadn't paid my bill ?
Why would they still deliver goods to me after I had reached my credit limit ?

cheers

 

[bwglaw]

I did receive the items but I am unhappy to pay for them as this company has basically caused my venture to crumble. There is no proof of delivery and also they still delivered items after the 30 day "money due period" and also over my credit limit. So my argument is this :

Why would I pay for something I had not recieved
Why would a company still deliver me goods 2 months after I still hadn't paid my bill ?
Why would they still deliver goods to me after I had reached my credit limit ?

cheers

Getting a bit clearer now.

The item has been delivered as you say. By keeping hold of the items you are accepting the item and therefore the supplier is entitled to be paid for them.

I can now see where product 1 comes in, which was of poor quality. You are trying to avoid paying rather than dispute their entitlement to payment. Did you complain about product 1 as to its quality?, did you pay? I note that this is going back some months now.

The questions you raise above are somewhat irrelevant. If you have ordered the goods and accepted them then they are entitled to be paid, regardless of credit limit etc. If the goods arrived quite late and you returned the products then you may have a good argument to refute payment. The issues you raise are just poor service issues until you can show that the issues were a condition of the contract i.e. delivery date.

I can see from your posts that you are trying to lie that you have not received the goods when you have and I am not in a position to advise how to go about this because if it goes to Court it will be thrown back at you and the Court may well award costs

£2500 is a considerable amount of money and I believe they will go to Court for that amount and it does appear on the basis of the information given, they will succeed

 

[frank]

Yes I had paid for product 1 on the promise that the next month's products would be of a better quality which they were not.

if they have no proof of delivery, how would they succeed in winning if it went to court ?

With regards to you saying "If you have ordered the goods and accepted them then they are entitled to be paid" how can they prove that I accpeted them or they delivered them if they haven't got proof of delivery ?

thanks for any help I really appreciate it

Basically I am not trying to shaft this person it is just that they are the cause of losing customers as they missed deadlines when they were time specific, and then when I promised customers that they would be ok for the next one, my supplier done the same thing again with the quality so left me in deep trouble and lost 80% of my customers

thanks

 

[Antonia @limeone.com]

Proof of delivery can come in many forms. Most often from the person who did deliver them to you and can identify you, or from both the delivery person and a neighbour who also can remember seeing them being delivered. Pretty easy to get these people as witnesses in a court case of this sort.

Continuing to lie about the delivery is going to get you into problems possibly even result in criminal action being taken against you.

You should negotiate with them the return or if you really want your day in court look at getting some legal advice on taking your own legal action for their poor service. I suspect without any terms or conditions involved you will waste a lot of time money and energy on that option.

I do wonder why business people, who value their business and their clients often allow suppliers to work with them on no agreed terms as to quality, arrival of supplies etc.

All of these things would be in a good terms and conditions document and you could now be looking at the supplier feeling hot under the collar rather than you being in the wrong over your actions.

 

[starsgazing]

Am I the only one who is disgusted by the above?

I think it highly ironic that your username is "frank" when you are suggesting what you have done. If you are disatisfied with the items your received from your suppliers, fgs send them back and ask for a refund. Claiming non-receipt is dishonest and immoral. Can you imagine if someone did that to you? You discuss the possibility of winning - you would be able to sleep well at night having stolen (yes, stolen) £2,500 from somebody?

 

[frank]

Am I the only one who is disgusted by the above?

I think it highly ironic that your username is "frank" when you are suggesting what you have done. If you are disatisfied with the items your received from your suppliers, fgs send them back and ask for a refund. Claiming non-receipt is dishonest and immoral. Can you imagine if someone did that to you? You discuss the possibility of winning - you would be able to sleep well at night having stolen (yes, stolen) £2,500 from somebody?

And you think by posting this it is answering the questions I asked ??

Obviously you haven't read the post properly as you wouldn't have said "send them back" did you not read this part what I said :

"Basically I am not trying to shaft this person it is just that they are the cause of losing customers as they missed deadlines when they were time specific, and then when I promised customers that they would be ok for the next one, my supplier done the same thing again with the quality so left me in deep trouble and lost 80% of my customers"

So how can I send them back ????????? the damage has been done and the products have been distributed !!!!!!!

What amazes me is the amount of people who get all moral on things like this when I can almost guarantee you that they have "stolen" themselves in the past. Watching a copy dvd or listening to a copy cd is stealing have you not ever done that ?

FRANK

 

[starsgazing]

And you think by posting this it is answering the questions I asked ??

Obviously you haven't read the post properly as you wouldn't have said "send them back" did you not read this part what I said :

"Basically I am not trying to shaft this person it is just that they are the cause of losing customers as they missed deadlines when they were time specific, and then when I promised customers that they would be ok for the next one, my supplier done the same thing again with the quality so left me in deep trouble and lost 80% of my customers"

So how can I send them back ????????? the damage has been done and the products have been distributed !!!!!!!

What amazes me is the amount of people who get all moral on things like this when I can almost guarantee you that they have "stolen" themselves in the past. Watching a copy dvd or listening to a copy cd is stealing have you not ever done that ?

FRANK

Hello Frank.

I did read the above and it's a shame, really it is.
But remember that my morals are not in question here- Just because other people do things that are wrong, does not mean that we can use that as a justification to do the same. I just gave my honest opinion. Personally, I don't think you should claim non-receipt; and I wouldn't do it if I were in your situation (in business, you can't win all the time). If you explain to them what you have to us (they may not even have a clue that anything is wrong!), I don't see why they wouldn't take the items back. After all, their reputation and your future patronage with them is at stake. Plus production probably costs them way less than what you paid. But that's just my advice.

My apologies if I upset you earlier; that was not my intention.

stars_gazing x x

 

[Cornish Steve]

"Basically I am not trying to shaft this person it is just that they are the cause of losing customers as they missed deadlines when they were time specific, and then when I promised customers that they would be ok for the next one, my supplier done the same thing again with the quality so left me in deep trouble and lost 80% of my customers"

But this is almost irrelevant. The point at issue is the contract and the relationship between you and your supplier. If the quality is poor, you have to address that. It may mean returning the goods; it may mean invoking a clause in your contract; it may mean finding a new supplier. What it can't mean is you keeping the goods and not paying for them. No matter what your emotions are on this, that will subject you to a lawsuit.

By the way, you are responsible for quality control, not your customers. Another lesson here is to change your procedures so that your customers never see poor quality work. After all, their contract is with you and not your supplier. They will blame you, and your reputation will take the hit.

 

[Madness]

Sorry to butt in...

Surely if you have received the products, and you say you have "distributed" them to your customers.. then I am guessing you have made a profit on these goods. Thats why we are all in business, right? to make money...

Have your customers paid you?? If so, why are you so worried about not paying your supplier??

Pay them and tell them you they will never see your businessagain. Then find yourself a new supplier and continue doing what "we" do best... making money..

I agree with what has been said on both parts, I have been in this situation before and I took legal advice and was told to pay up and get out...

I did exactly that, found a new supplier... AND I set the ground rules first.. about delivery times and payments...

Good luck...


Madness

 

[starsgazing]

Sorry to butt in...

Surely if you have received the products, and you say you have "distributed" them to your customers.. then I am guessing you have made a profit on these goods. Thats why we are all in business, right? to make money...

Have your customers paid you?? If so, why are you so worried about not paying your supplier??

Pay them and tell them you they will never see your businessagain. Then find yourself a new supplier and continue doing what "we" do best... making money..

I agree with what has been said on both parts, I have been in this situation before and I took legal advice and was told to pay up and get out...

I did exactly that, found a new supplier... AND I set the ground rules first.. about delivery times and payments...

Good luck...


Madness

This thread is 2 years old... But great points madness