Problem Customer

[JamesSco]

Afternoon All,

Looking to find out what our rights are in the situation we find ourselves in.

We have a 'difficult' customer whom ordered goods from us which were promptly dispatched. The courier first attempted to deliver the item on Day 1 but no one was home, so another attempt was made on Day 2. Again no one was in so it was left with their neighbour.

Now, the customer has been in touch with ourselves and the courier complaining. They are now demanding that the courier collect the item from the neighbour and either deliver it to them at a time of their choice or return the item to us. Obviously, no courier is going to entertain such a request.

They state they do not know the neighbour it was left with so it is 'completely unacceptable'. In all my years its not a situation I've come across and not sure what our rights are with this one?

 

[finleydesign]

Unfortunately you will always get them, the easiest thing to be honest and maybe not your first choice, but to simply apologise explain the situation and that you will offer a refund and take the goods back, as you are unable to comply with his requests.

Probably not what you want to hear but often time to walk away, if someone can't be bothered to simply go next door kind of tells you the type of person they are and to be honest the neighbour probably think they are an a**e hole as well, which is why he doesn't want to go round

 

[JamesSco]

Unfortunately you will always get them, the easiest thing to be honest and maybe not your first choice, but to simply apologise explain the situation and that you will offer a refund and take the goods back, as you are unable to comply with his requests.

Probably not what you want to hear but often time to walk away, if someone can't be bothered to simply go next door kind of tells you the type of person they are and to be honest the neighbour probably think they are an a**e hole as well, which is why he doesn't want to go round

Easier said that done, we have no way to get in touch with the neighbour to arrange a return of the goods. Off course, it would also mean that we have to ask the said neighbour to wait in all day as the courier can arrive any time.

I would assume since the neighbour happily signed for the goods then they are also happy for our customer to go around and collect them. I've received a couple of packages for neighbours happily myself, if they have not collected them and I see them home I usually just go ring the bell and hand them over.

I've looked at the houses on Google Maps, its an end terrace house and the neighbours on either side are not more than 10 seconds away.

 

[ecoleman]

I would pass this back to the courier.
Did you address the goods to the neighbours address? Who gave the courier the right to deliver to a different address than what your contract stated.

This is quite simple. The courier should have returned the goods to their depot and awaited further instructions or returned the goods to you. As they have delivered to a different address the courier is in breach of contract.

Whilst the customer may seem to be difficult, you do not know the history between your customer and his/her neighbour.

You also have to ask yourself, if the neighbour has received goods for his neighbour (your customer) why has he not popped around with them?

 

[spencergate]

Oh blimey, some people !
I think in your shoes I would simply tell the customer that there is nothing you can do.
It seems everyone knows the whereabouts of these goods, the customer is just unwilling (or maybe unable) to nip round and collect the package.

I would write to your customer, apologize (even tho actually nobody has done anything wrong in my estimation), mention in the letter that the courier's actions are actually quite normal by today's standards, and explain that you are not able to do anything about the matter, the quickest resolution to the problem would be for her/him to pop round to collect it. .

Otherwise, the only thing you can do is write to the address that the parcel was delivered to, with a pre-paid return label, and ask them to EITHER drop the package round to 'Mrs Farnsbarns' or please take the trouble to return it to you (or contact you to arrange collection at least).

I have to say, the behaviour of the some folk amazes me.

 

[JamesSco]

I would pass this back to the courier.
Did you address the goods to the neighbours address? Who gave the courier the right to deliver to a different address than what your contract stated.

This is quite simple. The courier should have returned the goods to their depot and awaited further instructions or returned the goods to you. As they have delivered to a different address the courier is in breach of contract.

Whilst the customer may seem to be difficult, you do not know the history between your customer and his/her neighbour.

You also have to ask yourself, if the neighbour has received goods for his neighbour (your customer) why has he not popped around with them?

The courier is dealing with a complaint from the customer. We were not giving any information on this from the courier though.

As far as I am aware there is no history between the neighbours. The correspondence clearly states that he is not going next door to collect because he does not know them.

The neighbour may very well drop the package off to them. Afterall its the neighbourly thing to do and as this has only happened recently it may already have happened.

@spencergate, It may come to this. However, the reason it was sent by courier is due to the fact that it is too large and heavy for Royal Mail's services.

 

[ecoleman]

Oh blimey, some people !
I think in your shoes I would simply tell the customer that there is nothing you can do.
It seems everyone knows the whereabouts of these goods, the customer is just unwilling (or maybe unable) to nip round and collect the package.

I would write to your customer, apologize (even tho actually nobody has done anything wrong in my estimation), mention in the letter that the courier's actions are actually quite normal by today's standards, and explain that you are not able to do anything about the matter, the quickest resolution to the problem would be for her/him to pop round to collect it. .

Otherwise, the only thing you can do is write to the address that the parcel was delivered to, with a pre-paid return label, and ask them to EITHER drop the package round to 'Mrs Farnsbarns' or please take the trouble to return it to you (or contact you to arrange collection at least).

I have to say, the behaviour of the some folk amazes me.

Unfortunately the law says otherwise. The merchant is responsible for ensure the customer receives the goods. Whilst this may be standard practice by couriers these days, it is wrong.

Neither the merchant or the courier has any idea of the relationship between the customer and the neighbour. They could be in some sort of legal dispute, the neighbours could be a bunch of pot smoking crackheads and so the customer is not comfortable going over there.

The customers contract is with the OP so he needs to sort it.

 

[spencergate]

You also have to ask yourself, if the neighbour has received goods for his neighbour (your customer) why has he not popped around with them?

Because people's lives are busy. I received a letter through my door at the beginning of last week that was actually addressed to a house 8 doors away. What with work, school runs, shopping etc, it took 4 days for me to remember/have time to drop it round to them ...

 

[ecoleman]

Because people's lives are busy.

Nail, Head
People are busy so why should they have to go running around the neighbourhood looking for a parcel that was meant to be delivered to their door.
I understand the customer was initially out when delivery was attempted, but a card should have been put through the door with instructions on how to re-arrange. Not simply dump the goods at a different address.

 

[spencergate]

Nail, Head
People are busy so why should they have to go running around the neighbourhood looking for a parcel that was meant to be delivered to their door.
I understand the customer was initially out when delivery was attempted, but a card should have been put through the door with instructions on how to re-arrange. Not simply dump the goods at a different address.

no, I'm sorry. The OPs customer does not "have to go running around the neighbourhood looking for a parcel", they know where it is, it's just NEXT DOOR.
According to the OP the couriers had already made an unsuccessful attempt to deliver on day 1. So my guess is they would have left a card, saying they would re-try on the following day, and with a number to call if that wouldn't be convenient (standard practice isn't it? I am talking from personal experience here).
So Mrs Farnsbarns ignored that for whatever reason, and wasn't there when couriers returned a second time. If the courier hadn't left it next door, they would have taken it back to the depot, and Mrs Farnsbarns would have had to go there to collect - presumably even more inconvenient (I'm guessing she doesn't know the guys at the depot personally either, so asking them for the package would be awkward for her )

Couriers don't just keep going back day after day to deliver packages do they ??

I'm with the OP, it IS the customer who is being unreasonable. I know it is the OPs legal responsibility to ensure the goods are delivered, but the customer hasn't helped here at all.

OP, I'm now more inclined to think you should write to the address that has the package, ask them to give you a quick call to arrange for it to be collected, refund Mrs Farnsbarns and end the matter. She's only going to complain when she gets the goods anyway in my estimation.

 

[ecoleman]

no, I'm sorry. The OPs customer does not "have to go running around the neighbourhood looking for a parcel", they know where it is, it's just NEXT DOOR.
According to the OP the couriers had already made an unsuccessful attempt to deliver on day 1. So my guess is they would have left a card, saying they would re-try on the following day, and with a number to call if that wouldn't be convenient (standard practice isn't it? I am talking from personal experience here).
So Mrs Farnsbarns ignored that for whatever reason, and wasn't there when couriers returned a second time. If the courier hadn't left it next door, they would have taken it back to the depot, and Mrs Farnsbarns would have had to go there to collect - presumably even more inconvenient (I'm guessing she doesn't know the guys at the depot personally either, so asking them for the package would be awkward for her )

Couriers don't just keep going back day after day to deliver packages do they ??

I'm with the OP, it IS the customer who is being unreasonable. I know it is the OPs legal responsibility to ensure the goods are delivered, but the customer hasn't helped here at all.

OP, I'm now more inclined to think you should write to the address that has the package, ask them to give you a quick call to arrange for it to be collected, refund Mrs Farnsbarns and end the matter. She's only going to complain when she gets the goods anyway in my estimation.

Okay, I'm not saying the customer is not being a pain in the arse at the moment, but the fact remains the courier had a contract to delivery to her address. NOT the neighbour.
The fact is that in most cases couriers don't leave cards, they simply attempt a second delivery the following day. If this fails then they should 100% leave a card and take the goods back to the depot. If they had done this the OP would not be wasting his time trying to sort this out and if the customer won't collect from the depot at least you know you can get the goods back.

I'm passionate about this because I spend far too much of my day on the phone to couriers that have delivered to the wrong address, signed for the goods on behalf of a customer and left in a "secure location/wheelie bin/under the tree or over the fence", claimed the customer was out even though the customer says 3 people were in the entire day because the driver was to bone idle lazy to climb three flights of stairs to the third floor flat.

The fact is a courier has a contract to delivery to address X. Not address Y. I don't care what their "standard practice" is. The courier should sort this. End of.

Right now, the customer is entitled to a full refund as she has not received her goods. Is it right that the OP should be out of pocket because the courier did not fulfil their contract?

I see you are a bookkeeper so my guess is you have never had to spend hours on the phone trying to recover your stock and protect your margins.

 

[spencergate]

I see you are a bookkeeper so my guess is you have never had to spend hours on the phone trying to recover your stock and protect your margins.

Ha, I feel like I have spent YEARS of my life explaining to clients that their businesses are struggling because they don't control their costs, protect their margins - and for that matter operate decent credit control. don't think it's all milk and honey here pal

I fully understand your frustrations with couriers, I accept that very many of them don't do the job right. I suspect that some of the reason is simply that the driver doesn't understand the problem he causes when he delivers next door/leaves the package under the porch/etc. His objective is to get rid of the van load and get home, and of course 90% of the time his method is fine. He isn't the guy that has to sort out the mess when it goes missing, it's the poor s*ds in the office that deal with that.

I do know that I would rather collect my parcel from my neighbour if it was delivered when I'm not in, instead of trailing a 20 mile round trip to the depot.

 

[JamesSco]

While we do appreciate its our problem to deal with (thats why we asked the question), we are still hoping the customer sees sense and simply collects it. Put it this way, with the complaint to the courier and to ourselfs. It would have been quicker to collect the thing.

The customer was indeed left with a card on the first day, they confirmed this and they also received a card on the second day to say it was left with a neighbor.

 

[scm5436]

And when it's over, don't forget to add that customer to your ban list! Nobody needs customers like that...

 

[FirstClassVirtualOffice]

Had an idea, email the customer and say that actually, you may have delivered an item of a higher value/spec than what you should have delivered and you need to collect it anyway, and you will now cancel their order and make a full refund and the matter is closed. See how quick he goes and collect the parcel then lol!

 

[wayzgoose]

but the fact remains the courier had a contract to delivery to her address. NOT the neighbour.

I think you'll find that that is NOT correct and most couriers terms and conditions contain the following:

2.2.1 Parcelforce Worldwide may at its discretion attempt to deliver the Consignment to an alternative address being either:
(i) a neighbouring address;

In fact, I had to check the T&C of USPS a couple of weeks ago and they even add that they reserve the right to deliver to any person that they believe is connected to the company or person on the despatch note. They always cover themselves !

 

[deniser]

I agree totally with Ecoleman.

Our couriers are only allowed to deliver to the actual address and must obtain a signature. The only time the courier is allowed to deliver elsewhere is if the customer requests it when they order or if they leave a signed note on the door which the courier can take with him as proof.

This is because the retailer is responsible for delivering it to the actual customer at the address he specified.

I would refund the customer or send out another item and then ask the courier company to retrieve the parcel from the other address and return it to you. If they don't, then put in a claim for a lost parcel with them.

It is for the retailer to agree terms with the delivery company. It's none of the customer's business.

 

[123Simples]

I think you would have to look at the Terms and Conditions of the Courier Service you engaged. If their terms and conditions say for example "We may try to deliver to an alternative address" then your customer is right, and you need to sort it out.
If however, they should have only delivered to the specified address in the contract, then the courier is responsible, and should go back and collect the item, and attempt re-delivery

Having said all that however your customer sounds like a complete ass and so you might be better putting them on a DO NOT ALLOW ORDERS FROM list as most people would be as you say okay.

 

[SamStones]

Interesting that this should come up today, having myself spent 5 seconds short of 10 minutes on the phone today to a lady who was complaining about two things:

1. Her item arrived quicker than she was expecting (is this even a valid complaint?)
2. That the item was left with her neighbour.

Incidentally she did state that she was extremely please with the item, it was complete, as described an in working order.

Her problem stems from the fact that by default we put the words "Can leave with neighbour" on all our parcels. In 9 years I've only ever had one other person complain about this due to the fact they had fallen out with their neighbour. (in their case they themselves were in so took delivery of their parcel anyway). The point, is that most people get on with their neighbours and will happily take each others parcels. You order something online because you want it, when it arrives you are happy you've got it. End of.

Although I agree that in the op's case the op is still responsible for sorting it out , the customer is obviously being unreasonable. I'd give it a couple of days and see if the situation resolves itself - ie they get off their *ss and go and get it or if the kind neighbour who was doing a favor does another favor and brings it round to your customer. If its still not resolved get the address where it was left from the couriers and ask them to go and collect it and return it to you so you can refund the customer. Do NOT deliver to the customer, it's not worth the hassle!

 

[Paul Norman]

From time to time, people cease to behave in a rational way. The courier will, probably, collect the item from the neighbour and return it to you. This would be the best course of action. The moment a customer has identified themselves as being crazy, stop trying to do the transaction. Even if the courier charges to return to you, pay it. Trust me.

 

[Paul Norman]

We are, of course, moving into a society where delivering next door is not going to work anymore. If I was the neighbour, I would take the parcel round.

But people are, by and large, so lacking in energy and initiative that we are going to have to ask couriers, if people are out, to take the parcel away. This means the customer, who could by now have their items, will have to wait another 24 hours. But it is what people seem to want.

Top tip. If you order something, expect it to be delivered. If you give an address where no one will be, expect your item to be delayed.

 

[deniser]

Top tip. If you order something, expect it to be delivered. If you give an address where no one will be, expect your item to be delayed.

This made me chuckle as we have on several occasions had people select the postage method "Courier - 1/2 working days - Monday to Friday delivery only" and then complain when the courier company leaves a card and they can't organise redelivery because "no-one is ever at home during the week"!

We have recently had quite a few people write on their orders "Do not deliver to neighbour". I think it is the Royal Mail where you have to opt out in writing if you don't want them to leave parcels next door.

 

[wayzgoose]

I remember the Christmas before last, we had a phone call from a gentleman complaining his parcel had not been delivered. I checked the tracking and it had been delivered and signed for the day before. He insisted he didn't have it. Another couple of days and the signature was available to view. It turned out it was his mother who lived next door. Unfortunately she was in the early stages of alzheimers and she had unpacked it, wrapped it up in Christmas paper and put it under her tree

 

[Latebloomer]

It should not be a big problem but annoying. Just ask the courier to collect the item. Once collected, tell the customer that you will give refund. It will not be worth the money and your time dealing with this customer again.
Good thing is these people come rarely and most are rational people.

 

[JamesSco]

We specifically send all our goods as no signature required, could not see anything in the terms about leaving it with the neighbor or in a safe place. It does state they will not be liable for the package if you request it left somewhere which we do not.

We don't ever ask for any signatures as most people are out during the week and it costs a small fortune for items to be returned to us undelivered in which case we need to refund the customer in any case.

In respect of this case, I can confirm it has now resolved! Received this response from the customer.

Dear Greg

Thank you for your reply, I have heard nothing from UK Mail.

My package was brought round to me this afternoon by a neighbours daughter.
My package had been left with a 93yr old lady, who had just undergone triple heart by pass surgery, and had been unable to get the package to me, or answer the door to visitors. How a delivery company can disturb a lady like this, and leave her with the worry of who it is for, I cannot accept as good customer service.

I will wait to see if UK Mail do contact me, which I doubt.

I would offer you and your company feedback that would say that I am very pleased with how you have handled this situation, but the delivery company has let you down.
I really need to consider whether I need to check who the delivery company will be before I order anything else from Amazon.
Which is a shame for the supplying company's like yourselves who have acted in good faith with trusting the delivery companies to deliver as agreed and advertised.

Thank you again for your help, I appreciate the time and trouble you have gone to.

With regards

 

[deniser]

Good result - customer is happy with you

 

[ecoleman]

At least it's resolved. I'd get rid of UK Mail, they have to be the worst courier out there.....after Yodel.

I've just had an incident with them where a parcel was signed for, but the customer was actually away on holiday and nobody was in the house.
We asked the driver to go back to where he had delivered it and he driver swore blind that he delivered to the correct house. All we had to go on was a squiggle and no name (funny how all the ones that go missing only have a squiggle as a signature) and is it so damn hard to take a surname.

Eventually after a few days it was discovered that the driver had never actually gone back so we insisted he go back and meet talk to the customer face to face, which he did after a week.
He explained to the customer that he wasn't the driver that delivered and told them it must have been delivered somewhere else by mistake and got them to complete a claim form confirming that they had not received the parcel. (My customer took a copy of this and emailed it over to me)

Later that day the driver put notes on their system saying that he confirms that the lady was indeed the person he made the delivery to.

UK Mail spent two weeks lying and bullshitting to both us (their customer) and our customer.

We will NEVER use them again.