plumbing training course what do you think???

[PP&CHltd]

PS, sorry to hear of your of your burden, but we all have our crosses to bear...
[/quote]


Dont get this but anyway, i think we will have to disagree, i know a guy called gerry who done a apprentice, worked for britsh gas, has 20 years experience etc etc, his nickname is gerriatric (if thats how you spell it), and i have my employee Rob who has been doing it 18 months, we have worked in huge houses, and on big projects and had nothing but testimonials, hes a clever lad, with an excellent technical mind and has a great sense of pride in his work, another reason why i wouldnt swap him for a 30 years + experienced lad is that a lot of them tend to think everyone should bow at there feet just because theyve been doing it for a long time and have a kind of " Dont tell me what to do ive been doing this 30 years" type of attitude, which nobody has at my company.

Experience is only useful if youve managed to learn something in that 30 years, but like some people i know, you could tell them a million times and they still wouldnt get it.

Now obviously experience is not a negative thing its a huge positive thing but only if the individual has other skills, such as pride, customer serivce, attitude etc.

Dont rule people out just because there not "old school" you could be losing a fantastic employee, be open-minded.

Well let me put it another way...

If i were to be going under the knife, then i would wish for a surgeon with as many year experience as possible, so experience counts for quite a lot in my view, certificates dont do the work, the person does, and of course , many have no "experience", and hide behind certificates which sometimes dont mean jack.

Yes i have 30 years under my belt, and in that time it has taken me across the board within the industry...and learned plenty and with it came the money, but initially it was a dire wage to be on, mates of mine were earning three times what i was... anyway, thats not what the topic is about, so back to topic.

Seeing though the original poster asked for opinions, i gave him mine, if you want to pick the bones out of my post, be my guest...It's an opinion, thats how forums work isn't it?

Lastly though, i don't expect anybody to respect anything that i have not earned for myself, i also have high standards & years of experience (with certificates if thats your thing) and know my industry backwards, and i and dont care one bit if people have a problem with it, or how i come across on forums... you dont know me, nor i you - So whats the problem?

PS, when all else fails, certificates don't help!!

 

[G. Lasagne]

Your misunderstanding me mate, im saying that experience does not equal a good plumber, nor does certificates, what makes a good plumber is a good mix of everything, you need the certificates to work, so they are essential.
Obviously i would rather have someone with 30 years experience over someone with 1 year, but as long as that person with 30 was on time every day, not complaining about working late, clean and tidy etc etc, these things are essential for me and it dosent matter if youve been doing it 50 years or 2 weeks your either good or bad, do you understand what im saying,

Experience is great but not if thats all somebody has, they need to be the full package, and like i say it dosent all boil down to experience, do you not agree?

at the same time you dont want somebosy who dosent know what there doing because they havent been doing it long enough.

 

[Matt1959]

Well let me put it another way...

If i were to be going under the knife, then i would wish for a surgeon with as many year experience as possible, so experience counts for quite a lot in my view,

It can and usually does, however it also breeds complacency whereas younger people are more hungry to succeed and impress, can be more inovative, push boundaries etc . Theres no cover all rule IMO....

 

[PP&CHltd]

Regarding plumbing courses, my advice (take or leave) is do some home work before parting with your hard earned...Forget the speil given out on tv ads, like i said on a previous post, 40, 60 or 80 grand a year will not come straight off the back of a cheap plumbing course.

Any plumber/engineer/technician worth their salt will have worked on some prestigious project in their time, sure you can go round fitting outside taps, sink units, baths ect, ect....and yes you can make a decent living if you have the attitude of working in other peoples homes, respecting them as if your own, provide the customer with a deccent job, and you won't go far wrong...

As for chasing money, you really need to sub contract in my view, if you can get something along the lines of refurbs, or even new builds, and if you get with a decent company, not some peanut whistle outfit, you should, with some hard graft, (a decent tool kit a must) be able to get earning....Although in the present climate, it aint going to be easy, No banana for stating the obvious!

The big money though, is in industrial, i have earned some serious money on just barrel work in schools, colleges and uni's, and boiler houses and indusrtial wharehouses....no big deal really just having the right tools, in my case a Rigid 535 pipe threader....Not cheap, but made life easier..

...basically, in short, make sure the course you sit opens doors not just something to have in a pretty frame hanging on a wall...

 

[plumbplumber]

I used to work as a plumber and gas fitter years ago (never qualified) and my dad was one of the first ever registered corgi registered fitters. He was a gas board contractor and was invited into the scheme very early on in the late 60s/early 70s. His corgi reg number was really low in the hundreds. I have recently been researching doing a quick plumbing course just to get qualified. I amin my mid 40s now and plumbing since I was about 8 years old on jobs with my dad back then. Health and safety wasn't so tight back then. For me getting the qualification is just a tidying up exercise, finishing something I should have finished long ago and not to return to working as a plumber. I was thinking of doing electrics too. I have loads of experience in the domestic plumbing field which is what I really used to dabble in with the odd refurb or new build thrown in for good measure. I haven't worked within the industry since the early to mid 90s and in the 1980s was doing an old City and Guilds (603 if I remember rightly) evening plumbing course but at that time it never had enough 'pull' for me to complete it and have moved into other ventures since (including lecturing in a proper FE college in another trade for which I am qualified). I had been looking at train4trades and the similar training establishments to satisfy my need to do these courses quickly and due to the fact that most FE colleges cannot keep up with the number of students who want to enrol on plumbing courses, I invariably looked upon it as an easier option for myself. I never realised train4trades had such a bad reputation so without rambling on to much more I would like to thank all the posters here for steering me well clear of them. The last thing I thought I would read was train4trades scam. Sorry again if I've rambled on but I just felt i had to say thanks.

 

[PP&CHltd]

Great thing

Life?...Sliced bread?...Internet?...Ukbusiness forums?

 

[Beachcomber]

........need to do these courses quickly and due to the fact that most FE colleges cannot keep up with the number of students who want to enrol on plumbing courses, I invariably looked upon it as an easier option for myself.........

And thats exactly where they hook you - by offering an 'easy option - quick fix' solution.

Sad thing is, not everyone researches these places properly and takes the sales pitch at face value.

 

[PP&CHltd]

Are fast-track plumbing courses just money down the drain?

Unemployed people, desperate for new jobs in a tough market, are paying thousands for short courses in plumbing – only to find they still can't get work



Private training companies are encouraging unemployed people to borrow thousands of pounds for fast-track plumbing courses which are of little use in the present jobs market. Companies tell potential trainees they can become a competent plumber in six weeks and may promise huge future earnings. But the reality for many trainees is that there is no work afterwards and they are left with crippling debt

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2010/may/15/fast-track-plumbing-courses

Lost for words..

 

[MillsDills]

I dont know what all the fuss is about all these quick fix courses have a really bad name - its not impossible to develop a course that isnt based at college that isnt rubbish! The only reason its quicker is cuz you dont have to wait - you can just do it as fast as you can! You have all sorts of holidays at college and i just want to get it out of the way so i can get som money!!! I think its great idea and am saving up to do it! My mates doing the train 4trade skills course at the mo and is really enjoying it. Made loads of mates and says the tutors are wkd!

Im sold.

 

[MillsDills]

Its hard to find work no matter what course youve done! My sisters got a masters in video and still can get into post production! Its difficlut but you have to keeop trying and get contacts somehow!! yeh do a few freebies to get in there!

 

[ElderJames]

In reply to your comment concerning the training program from train4trade, it would seem to me that this is yet another scam. I should know this well as i have been to many such "training" programes where they try to sell you a course under the false pretence that skilled workers are in demand. First of all anyone who has ben unemployed for a long time..such as me..are always looking for new ways to improve their prospects, and this is where these sharks prey on people. If the course cost that much and its all simulated and is classroom based, i gaurantee you that you will not learn the correct skills for the job. I have been on such training, and theory is no good in the real work place without lots of practice. Beware of sharks trying to get you into debt in this bad economy, you will be sadled with a debt and no job. Trained plumbers and other construction workers are now on the dole..what makes you think a computer training will qaulify you?..be ware of these scams, you will be in debt for long time and no way to pay off your loan as jobs are getting harder to come by as we all know.

tony bryden from train 4 trade skills

hi i had 2.5 hours interview today from a college adviser a so called person who seemed very nice but at the end i realized he was a salesman turning up in a black audi wanting to discuss the plumbing course where he talked about the shortages being out their however i have a relative in the plumbing trade who says because the down turn plumbers are not needed as much as the gov, say. any way tony discussed my situation such as my debts too wanted to know about my work history the things i had done i live in batley but i found it a very intense interview at the end then he discussed the costs by the end i felt if i had the money would have signed up.... if its a scam i must say its a very good one. any way the costs involved was £3950 or 22.50 per week i think they offer you fianance for the coursethe domestic course part lasts for 1 year which involves 6 weeks practical the rest is theory and virtual relialty training on the computer... their after another year for nvq level 3 and gas training. the full training including the proffesional part costs £5700 and or £35 a week.

he was still insistant their is work out their and claimed after doing the first year... could work doing basic plumbing to pay for the course it is still a loan you have to pay it is quicker than college he claimed full training takes in all about 2-3 years he claimed.

but given what plumbers are saying as well as my relative it appears work is short so maybe becoming a plumber is not a good idea but he was insisting that you need qualifications in a set trade to make a good living and was banging on about this he was saying the evening welding course i was doing wont get me any where as its only a certificate it seems i wont be able to get a job at all based on what he saying very depressing he kept going on about how does it feel to be unemployed how depressed does it make you.. what do you people think? thanks for reading...

 

[rik1987]

AVOID AVOID AVOID as much as you can

they take every single card detail you have to set up a direct debit absolute stupid, im going to be taking these to court if they take a single penny out they are robbing b!!!!!ds excuse my french, fancy salesmen stay away as much as you can. dont worry you will here about this in the papers if it goes any further

but i agree college or the army for further education non of these ******** courses that offer you a lfe long commitment in a trade, life doesnt work like that you dont see a doctor doing a 2 year course then becoming a consultant absolute stupid.

news in train for trade skills offer you a full city and gulds diploma that is actually out of date when youve finished your course, and they have been sued by corgi and gas safe for using there symbols in there course illegally nothing more said.

 

[fishy 1010]

AVOID AVOID AVOID as much as you can

they take every single card detail you have to set up a direct debit absolute stupid, im going to be taking these to court if they take a single penny out they are robbing b!!!!!ds excuse my french, fancy salesmen stay away as much as you can. dont worry you will here about this in the papers if it goes any further

but i agree college or the army for further education non of these ******** courses that offer you a lfe long commitment in a trade, life doesnt work like that you dont see a doctor doing a 2 year course then becoming a consultant absolute stupid.

news in train for trade skills offer you a full city and gulds diploma that is actually out of date when youve finished your course, and they have been sued by corgi and gas safe for using there symbols in there course illegally nothing more said.

any body who wants a refund a group of us are taking them to court join us on facebook under stop train 4 trade skills or ring me on 07749797977!

 

[td2011]

Hi I feel in agreement with most other users of this forum that essentially you don't need to spend such an amount of money whether it be a corrupt scheme or a genuine course. A friend of mine was recently offered an apprenticeship with a reputable plumber just by showing great enthusiasm for the job.

 

[lynda]

tony bryden from train 4 trade skills

hi i had 2.5 hours interview today from a college adviser a so called person who seemed very nice but at the end i realized he was a salesman turning up in a black audi wanting to discuss the plumbing course where he talked about the shortages being out their however i have a relative in the plumbing trade who says because the down turn plumbers are not needed as much as the gov, say. any way tony discussed my situation such as my debts too wanted to know about my work history the things i had done i live in batley but i found it a very intense interview at the end then he discussed the costs by the end i felt if i had the money would have signed up.... if its a scam i must say its a very good one. any way the costs involved was £3950 or 22.50 per week i think they offer you fianance for the coursethe domestic course part lasts for 1 year which involves 6 weeks practical the rest is theory and virtual relialty training on the computer... their after another year for nvq level 3 and gas training. the full training including the proffesional part costs £5700 and or £35 a week.

he was still insistant their is work out their and claimed after doing the first year... could work doing basic plumbing to pay for the course it is still a loan you have to pay it is quicker than college he claimed full training takes in all about 2-3 years he claimed.

but given what plumbers are saying as well as my relative it appears work is short so maybe becoming a plumber is not a good idea but he was insisting that you need qualifications in a set trade to make a good living and was banging on about this he was saying the evening welding course i was doing wont get me any where as its only a certificate it seems i wont be able to get a job at all based on what he saying very depressing he kept going on about how does it feel to be unemployed how depressed does it make you.. what do you people think? thanks for reading...

AVOID AVOID AVOID total con. They stitch you up, cost a fortune and you get nothing in return. They are not affiliated to who they say, they take your money and you get nothing.

 

[DDPlumbing]

Hi,

I did a course with one of these companies, I paid £££, and found all it did I could have learnt by following a decent plumber for a few weeks F.O.C.

It did give me the basics though, and the confidence (there were a lot of numptys that made me look good!! )

I "finished" the course, and went self employed, and haven't looked back. 5 years down the line, have expanded the business, now sorting premises and employ 6 people. (sub contract for now

BUT THAT ALL HAD ABOUT 10% TO DO WITH THE COURSE *face palm*

I learnt a lesson, I could have saved money and followed a plumber offering to work for free. And I didn't actually get the certificate...... I never sent off my completed "homework"

 

[Nikki28]

Last year whilst I was struggling to get a well paid job, I enquired about the plumbing, HVAC course with Train 4 trade skills. Within a week, I had a sales representative explain about the course and asked me to sign some documents. I did sign them as he said there was no other option and I can take my time to think about it, get a job and pay once I have a part time job. The amount was £22.30/week. However within a week, I called up and clearly stated that I will not do this course any more because of the cost and the general structure and review it has received.

Since then, I have been constantly harassed by the company to pay the entire loan amount of 2 years and have received no study materials or anything advertised by this company. Please advice on how I can deal with them as I refuse to pay them. I have also learnt my lesson about such courses and companies. Any help would be much appreciated.

 

[Beachcomber]

........... Any help would be much appreciated.

Most important question is - what exactly did you sign?

Sounds like you need some legal advice - take a look at your home / car insuirance policy as most come with a free legal helpline / legal cover that will get you some valuable initial advice.

Could be worth posting in the legal forum here as well as calling your local trading standards dept.

 

[tashabear23]

i have just been visited by these scammers.

i thought something was fishy when i read through the CDF contract and asked why it doesnt mention train4trade or atl or anything about the goods / services i should be receiving.

i rang up after he left without me signing and the lies started coming out. i was told that train4trade was atl that they were sister companies.
i asked for the company number.

2646404

it brought up this on the companies house page:

METROPOLITAN INTERNATIONAL SCHOOLS LIMITED

which brought up this:

they used to be called skills train!!! the bbc watchdog did a documentary on what a bunch of scammers they were. and not only that but they also own CDF.

go to the first google when you type above company name in. very very interesting.

i cant believe they are ripping people off like this. i rang back up and informed them that i wanted to record the phonecall as i have been lied to about quite a few things by the sales reps and the people on the telephone. she hung up.

 

[Beachcomber]

Glad you didn't get ripped off, unfortunately people still get taken in and not everyone is so lucky.

 

[Business Friend UK]

From my experience and the plumbers i know... A qualification as per discussed is MASSIVE value. It seems even freelance guys need it to attract work these days.

Speak to some of the accountants on here who all give free advice. You can run the expense through your business.

 

[Beachcomber]

From my experience and the plumbers i know... A qualification as per discussed is MASSIVE value. It seems even freelance guys need it to attract work these days.

Speak to some of the accountants on here who all give free advice. You can run the expense through your business.

I think you have have missed the point.

Qualification are priceless - but this thread was discussing these training centers that have sprung up over the past 6 or 7 years which are a total racket - offering poor training, massive costs and qualifications which are unrecognised by the industry or insurers.

 

[andy-2286]

Hi I signed up with train 4 trade skills on an electrician course. Never heard anything from them after i'd signed the original paperwork which I have now discovered is riddled with mistakes on their behalf. Credit agreements not signed by them or anything. But on their paperwork it's all signed up so that means he's obviously signed it when he left my house. also i found out the certificate you get from them isn't worth the paper it's written on The salesman who came round was called peter casey or so he say's that could well be a fake aswell. Now i'm in a battle to try and get the money back already paid. Also I want them and their sister company who loan the funding closed down so they can't continue to do this to people who only want to do something good with their lives. If you have also been affected by these con artists get in touch as i'm trying to get a petition together.

 

[DDPlumbing]

From my experience and the plumbers i know... A qualification as per discussed is MASSIVE value. It seems even freelance guys need it to attract work these days.

Speak to some of the accountants on here who all give free advice. You can run the expense through your business.

I have NEVER been asked for my qualifications!

 

[Beachcomber]

Hi I signed up with train 4 trade skills on an electrician course........

Sorry you've been had by these very convincing salespeople.
One positive is that posts like yours all get logged in the search engines so anyone else who's considering signing up may find this thread during a google search and think twice.

Good luck pursuing them for a refund, persistance is the key.

 

[emomunchkin]

Thank you for saving my partner's money and time.

My boyfriend was looking for a plumbing apprenticeship and used an online form on tradecareer.co.uk to get more information. He also contacted our local college for some information so when we were contacted by an advisor who wanted to come round we had no objections as we thought he was from our local college.

It wasn't until he left when I questioned my boyfriend and he showed me the website he went on. I knew straight away from the unprofessional layout and bad grammar throughout it wasn't legit and I noticed a video titled with "train 4 trade skills" and a lot of the reviews were copied from ATL's website. My boyfriend rang the representative back up and he said he worked for ATL which, with a couple of google searches brought me here!

Luckily for us and thanks to many forums like this one my boyfriend has since rang back and said he's not interested.

The representative was very charismatic and persuasive, dressed in a smart suit but drove a small blue car, it did seem very off and too good to be true.

Apologies for the long post but I wanted to put out there for anyone else who might search DO NOT use tradecareer.co.uk it's just another website being used to coax in more people onto their 3 year £5500 course!

 

[Beachcomber]

Great to hear you dodged that bullet!

Hope your fella find a legit way into the trade.

 

[plumbingpassion]

In my point of view career in plumbing is a good idea, Plumbing industry is more popular these days even in a slow economy. You can also choose Emergency plumbing as a career option.

 

[CharlineCaisse]

Save your money and go and work for free for someone if you really want to get into the trade. It'll probably cost you less and be a far better education.

Plumbing isn't hard, it's a piece of cake to learn the basics. I could probably teach you them in a few weeks on the job.

It's knowing how to do a good job quickly that takes years to learn. And you can't teach someone how to have common sense either.

And yes, there is still pleanty of work out there. Though alot less that there used to be! And lets be honest. Rolling about in dust and grime, lugging tons of tools around all day long and having hands that resemble elephants feet doesn't add up to the plum job they'd have you believe!

The only people who profit out of these courses are the people running them.

As said before speak to your local college - the tutors do keep an ear in with the lads on the ground for trainee positions that don't get advertised anywhere other than on the trade grapevine.

Okay.
A lady has backed down on plumbing courses here.

 

[robert james]

This post angers me in lots of ways . I have trained with this company and am fully qualified now, at first i thougth it was too good to be true however I find a lot of the people that have complained about ths these courses are the work shy or those who have little financial standing and can't afford to do course, anything decent will cost you . If you wish to be something take a risk put yourself out there

 

[robert james]

PLEASE NOTE I AM FULLY TRAINED THANKS TO THIS COMPANY. NYTHING WORTH HAVING HAVING IS GOING TO COST YOU

 

[robert james]

FOR ALL you sheep that say that they are bad they still trade they still put hundreds throught each year , three of my mates are now welders thanks to these guys

 

[Newchodge]

FOR ALL you sheep that say that they are bad they still trade they still put hundreds throught each year , three of my mates are now welders thanks to these guys

That's AMAZING - becoming a welder by doing a plumbing course!

 

[robert james]

That's AMAZING - becoming a welder by doing a plumbing course!

They offer welding , electrics and plumbing , sarcasm is the lowest form of wit, I take it you didn't quite make it to become qualified

 

[robert james]

go for the course, stop being namby pambys if you get Simon or Peter as teachers you will be very lucky

 

[MASSEY]

This post angers me in lots of ways . I have trained with this company and am fully qualified now, at first i thougth it was too good to be true however I find a lot of the people that have complained about ths these courses are the work shy or those who have little financial standing and can't afford to do course, anything decent will cost you . If you wish to be something take a risk put yourself out there

PLEASE NOTE I AM FULLY TRAINED THANKS TO THIS COMPANY. NYTHING WORTH HAVING HAVING IS GOING TO COST YOU

FOR ALL you sheep that say that they are bad they still trade they still put hundreds throught each year , three of my mates are now welders thanks to these guys

Hmmm, smells like very bad reputation management to me.

I have been considering doing one of these courses for some time now and have been put off by the comments on this site and others. But I have a problem. Not one of the threads says anything about the content of the courses, no comments about the training centres and certainly no comments about the complainants (that’s probably you!) themselves. Oh and nobody has mentioned the qualifications you get at the end IF you finish.
I have both the brochures for Train4TradeSkills (T4TS’s) Electrical and Plumbing courses, the ones that are the full courses. They are both £35.00 per week or if you prefer £5770.00 in total, oh and unless you pay it all in one go you will be entering into a perfectly normal credit agreement that carries with it your Statutory Rights in accordance with the Consumer Credit Act of 1974. This act states your rights to cancel and what the service providers (in this case T4TS) responsibilities are. So that means if you don’t want to do it then cancel it within seven days. It’s your right to do that.
The training centres you can find at Apprenticeship Training Ltd, look them up on Google, my nearest is in Southampton so I went and had a look around completely unannounced. They were helpful and welcoming and on looking around I reckon they’ve got £50m quid spent here.
I’ve checked the Plumbing Course qualifications using the City & Guilds web site which when completed say after about two to three years or so allows you to go on and do the C&G 6089 NVQ Level 3 assessments, oh and when you click on this link you may find it interesting to note the first bit of text. Go out to your nearest busy main road, stop all the so called qualified Plumbers and ask them specifically what qualifications they have, you’ll be surprised, I was.
They also add Part P Defined Scope Electrical into the course so you can properly install say an Electric Shower or Waste Disposal unit that needs power without calling a Sparky in. So that’s everything I’m gonna need to be a QUALIFIED Plumber. All I gotta do now is get a job as a trainee or something and I’ll get the experience I need and all those old tricks from the guys that have been around a while.
The same all goes for the Electrical Course, that’s C&G 2391 and then on to C&G 2356 NVQ Level 3 assessments.
There are lots of other certifications you get on these courses. There are ten or more in the Plumbing course and 15 odd in the Electrical.
I’m currently a Printer and I know a bit about Printing as I’ve done it all my life. The Course guy gave me the Electrical brochure and this plumbing one, trust me when I say these cost some cash to print. If this is a scam then I’m Donald Trump and I must have some money hidden somewhere that I don’t know about.
I get lots of salesmen knocking on my door trying to sell me rubbish I don’t need but I must admit I am about to sign up to a Plumbing Course. I’ll keep you all updated once I get back from my hols.
PS; I think all the “it’s a scam” brigade are a bit daft. In the end they’ve paid £100.00 registration fee and I assume can all read. They’ve signed any paperwork (I’ll let you know about this next time, see what I have to sign). And I suppose if Barclays Bank and Hitachi Finance (who I had my new Sofa on finance with) are involved, it must be reputable.

This copy pasta stuff is also probably another bad attempt or just sheer self promotion.

 

[Paul Brooke]

PLEASE NOTE I AM FULLY TRAINED THANKS TO THIS COMPANY. NYTHING WORTH HAVING HAVING IS GOING TO COST YOU

Sorry. I was one of those that was duped into selling this. It's a crock of ******

Stay well clear. Look around at local colleges and see what's on offer. The qualifications for this you may as well right on the back of a fag packet. Just a sales ploy... nothing more