People up North still think that labour are in Power

[JEREMY HAWKE]

On the news a bloke up North was blaming Labour for all the failings in his area
These people actually think that Tony Blair and Jeremy Corbyn run the show
This is a worry ! Forget Scotland just form our own country between Birmingham and Lands End thats what I say !
Its too dangerous to have these people on the books Im afraid

 

[Deleted member 335660]

On the news a bloke up North was blaming Labour for all the failings in his area
These people actually think that Tony Blair and Jeremy Corbyn run the show
This is a worry ! Forget Scotland just form our own country between Birmingham and Lands End thats what I say !
Its too dangerous to have these people on the books Im afraid

Well Jeremy, the reality is that there are people in the south just as ignorant as the one you reported from the north. Brexit showed that quite clearly. The North isn’t quite a strong Labour area and with Conservative Government holding back money from councils and being more centralized than before. the Labour councils get the blame.
The whole System needs a shake up.

 

[Mr D]

On the news a bloke up North was blaming Labour for all the failings in his area
These people actually think that Tony Blair and Jeremy Corbyn run the show
This is a worry ! Forget Scotland just form our own country between Birmingham and Lands End thats what I say !
Its too dangerous to have these people on the books Im afraid

Did he have a labour council?

 

[Scottishgifts4u]

You lot have got it easy.

The Tories are blamed for most of the failings in Scotland in spite of the SNP having been in power for 14 years with devolved powers.

 

[Ian J]

On the news a bloke up North was blaming Labour for all the failings in his area
These people actually think that Tony Blair and Jeremy Corbyn run the show

Were they not referring to the local councils

 

[mattk]

I think this just shows the tribal nature of politics. It is always the "other lots" fault, regardless of the realities. The worst thing is, people are often uninterested in the truth, as it conflicts with their opinions.

 

[swankypants69]

On the news a bloke up North was blaming Labour for all the failings in his area
These people actually think that Tony Blair and Jeremy Corbyn run the show
This is a worry ! Forget Scotland just form our own country between Birmingham and Lands End thats what I say !
Its too dangerous to have these people on the books Im afraid

I think a lot of “the north” would be quite happy with your suggestion

 

[japancool]

This is a worry ! Forget Scotland just form our own country between Birmingham and Lands End thats what I say !

I suppose that's one way of ensuring London teams have a chance of winning the Premier League.

 

[Mark T Jones]

To be fair, if you go by policies in the last year or so you could be forgiven for believing that

 

[Newchodge]

Were they not referring to the local councils

No. They voted conservative in Hartlepool which had had a Labour MP forever and a Labour council because they were fed up with cuts to their hospital services, removal of their magistrates court, major cuts to their police etc etc. They blame all of that on their Labour Council so voted Conservative to object to it. I used to work in Hartlepool, I am afraid I am not surprised.

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

I think a lot of “the north” would be quite happy with your suggestion

Don't encourage me

Its you turn to buy the coffee and then I will tell you my opinion on TNSD

I'm 100 per cent sure this bloke had no idea that Boris was prime minister
He was definitely not aware that the Tory administration had withdrawn all the funding that he blamed Labour for

 

[MBE2017]

No. They voted conservative in Hartlepool which had had a Labour MP forever and a Labour council because they were fed up with cuts to their hospital services, removal of their magistrates court, major cuts to their police etc etc. They blame all of that on their Labour Council so voted Conservative to object to it. I used to work in Hartlepool, I am afraid I am not surprised.

An interview I saw basically had quite a few people mention they were voting Conservative because since they had a conservative council or Gov things had been happening, whilst under Labour for many years nothing seemed to happen.

Such answers suggests plenty are only to well aware of who has been elected to myself.

 

[Newchodge]

An interview I saw basically had quite a few people mention they were voting Conservative because since they had a conservative council or Gov things had been happening, whilst under Labour for many years nothing seemed to happen.

Such answers suggests plenty are only to well aware of who has been elected to myself.

The fact that Hartlepool has NEVER had a Conservative council rather suggests they do not know what they are talking about.

Since 1995 political control of the council has been held by the following parties:[11][12]

Party in control Years

Labour 1995–2000

No overall control 2000–2004

Labour 2004–2008

No overall control 2008–2010

Labour 2010–2019

No overall control 2019–present

 

[MBE2017]

The fact that Hartlepool has NEVER had a Conservative council rather suggests they do not know what they are talking about.

Not so, I did mention I was not sure if they meant local or overall Gov. obviously they must have been referring to National Gov.

 

[Newchodge]

Not so, I did mention I was not sure if they meant local or overall Gov. obviously they must have been referring to National Gov.

Which has removed their magistrate's court, the custody suite at the police station, most of their health services, can anyone suggest anything that has changed for the better in Hartlepool since 2010?

 

[John Hemming]

The election result in Hartlepool was mainly a swing from Brexit to the Tories.

How it got there is another issue and to be fair Dan Hodges is quite good on that in today's mail
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/...abour-cares-Palestinians-Red-Wall-voters.html

 

[UKSBD]

Like it or not, that article just about sums it up.

People are selfish, self centred and only really care about themselves.

 

[Newchodge]

Like it or not, that article just about sums it up.

People are selfish, self centred and only really care about themselves.

It does sum it up, but it doesn't mention why many people are so angry about immigration and social security. The media have told them that is what they should be angry about, and so they are. The spin put on the Glasgow situation this week by this article is that the police turned up to "help the UK Border Agency deport two men it had determined were illegal migrants". It does not say, as it should, that the police actually turned up to deal with a public order issue when people tried to prevent the UK Border Agency illegally deport two men, who have the right to stay in this country until their appeals have been heard. It doesn't mention that the UK Border Agency has been found to have been acting illlegally in more than 50% of those appeals.

 

[John Hemming]

People are selfish, self centred and only really care about themselves.

That is not 100% right, but it tends towards it.

I am lucky that I am in a position where my daily life is easy to handle so I can look more widely at society. However, it is also the case that people with a relatively weak financial position also look at the wider position.

In the end, however, everyone will wish to protect their own interests.

 

[John Hemming]

It does sum it up, but it doesn't mention why many people are so angry about immigration and social security. The media have told them that is what they should be angry about, and so they are.

In my experience people get angry about illegal migrants when they encounter illegal migrants who impact on their lives. The media reflect that rather than create it.

I understand the idea that there should not be an illegal human being. However, some people do not have the right to be in the UK. When those people conflict with other people in the UK then it causes stress.

 

[Newchodge]

In my experience people get angry about illegal migrants when they encounter illegal migrants who impact on their lives.

That is 100% not my experience. When I lived in london which has a high prortion of immigrants and a high proportion of illegal immigrants, I never met anyone for whom it was an issue. I now live in the north east where it is extremely rare to see anyone who is not white. Here the anger about immigration (and there is no distinction between legal and illegal immigration) is through the roof. I challenged my sister in law during one of her regular diatribes about how they should do something about the immigrants, to tell me when she had last seen a non-white person, in person, as it were. She couldn't.

 

[Mr D]

Which has removed their magistrate's court, the custody suite at the police station, most of their health services, can anyone suggest anything that has changed for the better in Hartlepool since 2010?

Well the voters seem to think things have improved enough to vote for the Conservatives.
Perhaps Labour simply didn't offer a decent candidate or perhaps they didn't shout out enough about what they did do.

 

[Mr D]

That is 100% not my experience. When I lived in london which has a high prortion of immigrants and a high proportion of illegal immigrants, I never met anyone for whom it was an issue. I now live in the north east where it is extremely rare to see anyone who is not white. Here the anger about immigration (and there is no distinction between legal and illegal immigration) is through the roof. I challenged my sister in law during one of her regular diatribes about how they should do something about the immigrants, to tell me when she had last seen a non-white person, in person, as it were. She couldn't.

Immigration is not the same as seeing coloured people.

Lots of immigrants are your colour. Lots of natives are my colour (somewhat more tanned than you)- and we get called immigrants often enough just like you were suggesting.

 

[AllUpHere]

That is 100% not my experience. When I lived in london which has a high prortion of immigrants and a high proportion of illegal immigrants, I never met anyone for whom it was an issue. I now live in the north east where it is extremely rare to see anyone who is not white. Here the anger about immigration (and there is no distinction between legal and illegal immigration) is through the roof. I challenged my sister in law during one of her regular diatribes about how they should do something about the immigrants, to tell me when she had last seen a non-white person, in person, as it were. She couldn't.

What on earth has being non - white got to do with being an immigrant (illegal or otherwise)?

 

[John Hemming]

That is 100% not my experience.

We have different experiences. When I was an elected official I did a lot of canvassing which meant I spoke to a lot of people. I take the view that I should remember what people say even if I disagree with it. Now I live on the edge of inner city Birmingham, outside a Mosque (to the extent that Jum'ah prayers affect parking) and only the minority of my youngest son's friends are white.

There were many non-white people who voted for Brexit to take control of our borders.

 

[Newchodge]

What on earth has being non - white got to do with being an immigrant (illegal or otherwise)?

The perception of a large number of white British people is that somneone who is non-white is an immigrant and, probably, illegal.

 

[UKSBD]

I'm from a background where people are told they have rivals, anyone different to them is a potential rival.

When I went to school our rivals were the local nearby school, when I played school rugby our rivals were another school rugby team, when I left school I was a punk/mod and our rivals were the rockabillies/teds, when I started drinking in local pubs our rivals were the squaddies (near by army camp), in night clubs our rivals were anyone from out of town.

Get to about 25 and you grow out of the tribalism

Some don't though and the rivals are anyone different, different races, different religions, from different countries

The perception of a large number of white British people is that somneone who is non-white is an immigrant

It's not so much that they are non-white, it's the fact they are non-white that makes it easier to spot they are different.

A lot of racism is really just a form of differentism (is that a word?)

 

[Mr D]

The perception of a large number of white British people is that somneone who is non-white is an immigrant and, probably, illegal.

No.
That is the racist view of a minority of white British people.

Most people I have come across do not care. They may well know some white people. May well know some coloured people.
But not automatically thinking immigrants when looking at that white boy or that Asian girl or that French man.

Lots of immigrants here are white. Often very hard to tell just by sight who is an immigrant - be much easier if we could class all white people as immigrants but that would be racist. Would be a reversal of what you said though.

 

[Mr D]

I'm from a background where people are told they have rivals, anyone different to them is a potential rival.

When I went to school our rivals were the local nearby school, when I played school rugby our rivals were another school rugby team, when I left school I was a punk/mod and our rivals were the rockabillies/teds, when I started drinking in local pubs our rivals were the squaddies (near by army camp), in night clubs our rivals were anyone from out of town.

Get to about 25 and you grow out of the tribalism

Some don't though and the rivals are anyone different, different races, different religions, from different countries



It's not so much that they are non-white, it's the fact they are non-white that makes it easier to spot they are different.

A lot of racism is really just a form of differentism (is that a word?)

Indeed. Different and enemy become the same for some people. On an institutional basis or a personal basis. Sadly it sometimes ends up causing injury or death. Getting rid of the different.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

In many cases immigration is not about colour, but culture.
A neighbour, a former Policeman took on a key role within a UN Task Force who's aim was to help the government of (probably best not to say) develop a more robust Police force.
After two years it was determined that stealing and corruption was so ingrained into the psyche and culture of such a large percentage of the population that real change was nigh on impossible.

 

[japancool]

People who are inclined to say that those of a different skin colour are the enemy don't usually care what their immigration status is.

 

[Ian J]

when I left school I was a punk/mod and our rivals were the rockabillies/teds,

Get to about 25 and you grow out of the tribalism

Blimey how old are you? I was a Lambretta riding, parka wearing mod back in the day and as some of my good friends on this forum are fond of telling everyone that will listen, I am older than Methuselah

It's not quite true about growing out of tribalism at 25 as you've forgotten about football

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

I love everybody from every background or religion but we need a discussion about people up North

 

[Ian J]

I love everybody from every background or religion but we need a discussion about people up North

Having lived in Newcastle for a number of years in the late eighties the Geordies are divided into two categories. Firstly are the friendly people that would do anything for you and secondly are the thieving barstewards that spend their time thieving cars and burgling houses and it was partly down to the latter group that I moved as far away from Newcastle as possible but taking my new Geordie wife with me

 

[AllUpHere]

The perception of a large number of white British people is that somneone who is non-white is an immigrant and, probably, illegal.

You need to broaden your group of acquaintances if that's how you think your peers view others.

 

[UKSBD]

Blimey how old are you? I was a Lambretta riding, parka wearing mod back in the day and as some of my good friends on this forum are fond of telling everyone that will listen, I am older than Methuselah

It's not quite true about growing out of tribalism at 25 as you've forgotten about football

I'm talking about 2nd time round revival; The Jam, Madness, Secret Affair, Specials, Two-Tone late 70's

 

[paulears]

You see this is exactly why people on both sides get angry. It’s just exposure, expectation and local circumstances. The example to consider are the traveller community. I’ve never found anyone supporting their way of life. Universally disliked as a whole, not specific communities. Their chosen way of life should be protected and supported, but the fact is that nobody wants them near them and breath a sigh of relief when they go. Of course they just go and make life hell elsewhere. They seem to lack any positives at all. Where I live, 97% of the population is white, and the result is actually that those from the other 3% are usually nice. You can chat in a school queue, and make conversation without feeling a new group is taking over. Skin colour is irrelevant. After WW1 we had a new Italian community, then a Greek one. In some parts quite a high proportion but again, well integrated and liked. Now we have Portuguese, Latvian, Romanian, Estonian and loads of others. Some of these are NOT mixing well and resentment is rising. Most issues really seem down to behaviour, not race or origin, and bad behaviour is the key cause of what people now object to. Hoody wearing yobs of any colour generate anger, which often is wrongly converted into a description of racism. We seem unable to separate what really is class from race. upper, middle, working class descriptors have had a lower one added, and these are the new B Ark. you might have to google B Ark.

 

[Mark T Jones]

but taking my new Geordie wife with me

You stole a geordie?

 

[paulears]

A Geordie wife wouldn't have been my first choice either - PS, this of course is a joke. Jokes are attempts at humour and may or may not be true. Having just got the contracts through for some Jim Davidson shows - I have to learn after covid how to not laugh. After all the years of doing Jim's shows, I still laugh, but you have to be so careful to not let any delicate snowflakes see you laugh. I've also become very good at watching audiences. Jim always has people front row who are from loads of different backgrounds - and he has fun with them at their expense. I have only ever had one person complain about the stick they got. He was a white American, who was in their services. The joke was about the SAS vs their special forces. The audience laughed at the Americans - all bar one man.

We all have the capacity to change. I had a real dislike of covered faces and slits to peep through. I don't know why. After wearing a mask for a year, this stupid dislike of mine has completely gone. My town is actually in Suffolk, but the locals draw allegiance from Norwich City, who are in Norfolk. This means that for football fans, our largest county town might as well be 100 miles away, not 40. Ipswich supporters and Norwich supporters will never get on. This is perfectly normal, even though somewhat silly, but in all things 'its' it's unacceptable to have an opinion nowadays.

 

[John Hemming]

The example to consider are the traveller community. I’ve never found anyone supporting their way of life.

Whereas I am not a fan of people deciding that paying taxes is nothing to do with them and that they can live on recreational parks, there are people who have a travelling life such as Showpeople (people who run fairgrounds) who are quite responsible people, but have a travelling lifestyle.

Hence as with many things there are good people and bad people and that a way of life which involves travelling is not inherently bad.