Penalties for not returning self assessment

[susieq28]

I got a hand delivered letter for arrears nearly totalling £18 k from the Debt Managements Team for not doing self assessment for a business I resigned from in 2013. (with ex partner)
These penalties are from 2103 onwards.
I resigned using our accountant they say they have no record of me resigning, is this a common occurrence ?

 

[Simon Green]

Hello there, Yes this often happens; you need very clear and strong advise from this point onwards

 

[Mr D]

Yes it happens (one of mine is from 2013 too with a £3k penalty).
Have you submitted any self assessment since 2013? Anything that could indicate end date / no longer doing the partnership?

 

[susieq28]

No haven't submitted an self assessments since as far I was concerned out of there, quicker the better !!
The company which is ltd is getting liquidated by HMRC on 5/3/2018, is this the last ditch attempt to get money ? Or can s.a. debt continue ?

 

[Mr D]

You were not asked to do self assessment for the year you left even?

Self assessment is personal, the limited company getting liquidated is company. The two debt types usually not linked.

 

[KAC]

You should take any relevant paperwork to a new accountant straightaway and they should be able to sort it out for you.

 

[susieq28]

I was put through as an employee for the last few months, as ex refused to co-operate with accountant, so no self assessment done for me as far as I am aware.
I do have proof that HMRC had the documents to remove me from secretary and director.

 

[Mr D]

I was put through as an employee for the last few months, as ex refused to co-operate with accountant, so no self assessment done for me as far as I am aware.
I do have proof that HMRC had the documents to remove me from secretary and director.

But nothing to say removed from self assessment?

 

[susieq28]

No, but no longer associated with the company and no longer self employed.

 

[susieq28]

No but was not self employed
nor employed.nor claiming benefits, my ex gave me maintenance for a while, till I got a p/t job, which I am still in.

 

[KAC]

No, but no longer associated with the company and no longer self employed.

Sorry but none of that matters. From what you have said, the Debt Management Unit is pursuing you personally and not the company for £18K. Can you please clarify if that is not the case. Once you are in self assessment, you stay in it until HMRC agree that you are no longer liable.

Penalties for late submission can be substantial as can estimated tax.

As I said ^^^^ please take everything to an accountant to sort out

 

[susieq28]

Should I have been sent/emailed the forms to fill out ? Or a reminded to do so ?

 

[Mr D]

Should I have been sent/emailed the forms to fill out ? Or a reminded to do so ?

Yes and yes.
Did they have an up to date address for you?

 

[Mr D]

No but was not self employed
nor employed.nor claiming benefits, my ex gave me maintenance for a while, till I got a p/t job, which I am still in.

Don't have to be self employed. Plenty of employees get asked to fill in self assessment forms, self employment is part of that.

 

[Simon Green]

It can be a common mistake to mix up personal self-assessment with HMRC from company affairs but as already highlighted you dont have to be associated with the/a company for HMRC to want completion of self-assessment.
There are excelloration charges associated with late submission of self-assessment as well as penalties and daily interest.

 

[KAC]

Should I have been sent/emailed the forms to fill out ? Or a reminded to do so ?

No, you would not have received any forms to complete. You should however have received an email in April each year requiring you to complete an online return by the following 31st January and you should have received email reminders. You should also have received other communications about the penalties etc.

As @Mr D has said, did HMRC have your correct address?

 

[susieq28]

I definitely did not receive any email any year, so that's a start, as for the address ??

 

[Toby Willows]

I definitely did not receive any email any year, so that's a start, as for the address ??

You still would have received the SA and payment reminder emails from HMRC every year. Why did you chose to ignore these?

 

[susieq28]

I did NOT receive any emails, I did NOT ignore any emails.
IF I had received an email I would of gone to the accountant and asked why !!

 

[KAC]

As I said, now is the time to take all the paperwork to a suitably competent and preferably qualified accountant. Difficult for anyone on here to give you further assistance without being able to speak to HMRC on your behalf.

 

[Simon Green]

The excelloration charges alone motivate people to deal with self assessment

 

[susieq28]

Okay, thanks for you advice so far x

 

[Toby Willows]

I definitely did not receive any email any year, so that's a start, as for the address ??

It’s up to you to make sure they have a current email address. If you don’t even know what email address they have how can claim they didn’t send the reminders?

 

[susieq28]

I have only ever had 2 email address, I have checked both, neither has any emails from HMRC ever.

 

[Newchodge]

Was the company's accountant authorised to submit self assessments on your behalf?

 

[Toby Willows]

I have only ever had 2 email address, I have checked both, neither has any emails from HMRC ever.

So what email address was used pre 2013? You would have provided a valid email address when you registered with HMRC.

 

[susieq28]

pre 2013 was one of these mentioned emails

 

[susieq28]

Was the company's accountant authorised to submit self assessments on your behalf?

I have asked the accountant this question, I will let you know.

 

[Toby Willows]

pre 2013 was one of these mentioned emails

So you would have received the reminders, not that HMRC are obliged to send you reminders it’s up to you to follow the lawful process and submit your returns. I can’t see you have a case against your fines, the ball has been in your court all along.

Reminders are just that, they are not a instruction or call to action but simply a reminder of what you are legally required to do.

 

[Mr D]

Reminders may go in spam folder. It is down to the individual to take action still as you say Toby.
Proving you didn't receive emails sent to a known email address supplied by you or your representative that presumably HMRC can prove didn't bounce? Can imagine that would be hard.

 

[susieq28]

"So you would have received the reminders, not that HMRC are obliged to send you reminders it’s up to you to follow the lawful process and submit your returns. I can’t see you have a case against your fines, the ball has been in your court all along.

Reminders are just that, they are not a instruction or call to action but simply a reminder of what you are legally required to do."

Like I have previously said, I've only ever had 2 email addresses, neither have received a reminder from HMRC or from said accountant.
I understood this forum to be about helping and sharing information NOT trying to put the boot in when someone is genuinely sacred to be unable to house their children if this scenario goes badly wrong !!!!!!!

 

[Simon Green]

I have to say the situation is very much like when the DVLA send notification to you when you’re caught speeding;
If you have moved address but not provided updates to the DVLA then it’s not really a case against them is it?
Bang, that’s it chum.

 

[Mr D]

"So you would have received the reminders, not that HMRC are obliged to send you reminders it’s up to you to follow the lawful process and submit your returns. I can’t see you have a case against your fines, the ball has been in your court all along.

Reminders are just that, they are not a instruction or call to action but simply a reminder of what you are legally required to do."

Like I have previously said, I've only ever had 2 email addresses, neither have received a reminder from HMRC or from said accountant.
I understood this forum to be about helping and sharing information NOT trying to put the boot in when someone is genuinely sacred to be unable to house their children if this scenario goes badly wrong !!!!!!!

Yes this forum does help people.
Someone may tell you what you want to hear but does that help you?

You can get honest answers from people who have had experience of HMRC as business owners, including those who have been chased by HMRC over HMRC errors.
One or two people may not give you all the options, maybe others will come up with other options or ideas. Or they may not.

HMRC are keen to get money. If you owe the money that's even better but not essential to their actions.

 

[Simon Green]

Yes, well put.

 

[Newchodge]

I have asked the accountant this question, I will let you know.

You would have to have authorised the accountant.

 

[susieq28]

Qoute from accountant today

I can’t see your account on the HMRC system so I’m not sure if HMRC expected returns from you or not.

 

[KAC]

Sorry but you really do seem to need a new accountant. Had it been me, in view of the sums involved, I would have been straight onto HMRC on the phone to find out what was happening. They do answer the dedicated agent line most of the time.

 

[susieq28]

I have spoken to HMRC and they have no record of me leaving the company and it's up to me to appeal and prove them wrong.
I DO have documentented evidence from their website to prove I did leave, so let the fight begin......

 

[Toby Willows]

I have spoken to HMRC and they have no record of me leaving the company and it's up to me to appeal and prove them wrong.
I DO have documentented evidence from their website to prove I did leave, so let the fight begin......

And what does that have to do with you not doing your SA for the past four years? I’m not trying to be awkward but you have to be realistic. It really is time you seek professional help as you are contradicting yourself (see your post above!) to seemingly try and make your case, that won’t wash in the real world I’m afraid. Just because you left a company doesn’t mean you no longer need to do your SA.

The very simple facts are:-

1. YOU are required to file a self assessment every year.

2. You haven’t done this since 2013.

 

[Simon Green]

Be left in no doubt,
The Penalties and excelloration Charges as time passes will leave you with gigantic HMRC tax liability.
It’s not a question of fighting but as explained by others seeking advise as you clearly don’t understand that you are in HMRC self assessment systems and you should act according to this system as prescribed by HMRC;
Trust me chum, you’re not in a position to fight!!!