Pay on results SEO?

[Esk247]

posted twice! oops

 

[JohnnyCash]

I think Earl is talking on a level above what many of you are assuming.

He isn't talking of someone coming on to the forums and saying 'Hey guys, i'm going to build a website..like Facebook right but better..yeah..who can do SEO for me though cos i only have a Wordpress site init bruv'

Earl means a dedicated business setup where they are looking for direct results from a trusted SEO expert, the business will have a directorship established, a complete and sustainable business plan and funding for production and some marketing but not enough at the startup stage for a full blown SEO assault or they are not totally sure about whether SEO is right for them and they enlist the assistance of an SEO expert to prove, using previous results, that SEO may well be a great marketing tool for them.

Think business meetings and suits rather than googlemail accounts from a forum.

Well moreso at that level, it almost always makes sense for the business to hire an seo and pay them as normal, or it makes sense for the seo to go do his own thing if he's so good... seo experts are 10 a penny, you can hire very good ones for a monthly fee.

 

[Esk247]

Well moreso at that level, it almost always makes sense for the business to hire an seo and pay them as normal, or it makes sense for the seo to go do his own thing if he's so good... seo experts are 10 a penny, you can hire very good ones for a monthly fee.

SEOs are 10 a penny, experts less so.

I understand both sides of the argument but some SEOs like to invest in an equity scheme for a project that has the potential to be very succesful.

1) it doesn't cost them anything to gain percentage of the business
2) if the business plan is sound they stand to make an annual income
3) they don't have to rely on invoicing every month for work

there are two sides to every story but ofcourse, it depends on the SEO and how they wish to approach the issue. Equity share is available though.

 

Well if you're the one finding profitable products in the first place, then ranking them, you're not only doing seo for a cut. If you're doing the bulk of the work, why do you need a partner instead of an employee? Or has the roles just reversed and its you taking on a partner because you can't afford the up front cost of hiring normally?

99% of the time a deal like this is proposed, its a suckers proposition for one of the parties...

Well as my role is to facilitate the sales of products or services.It would be a bit of a waste of my time getting to involved in the everyday processing of sales.

Hence why I need people who can arrange that side of things and they need people who do what I do.Seems a common enough way for business's to do business to me.

As an SEO/SEM one is in a position to create business's worth millions of pounds and I for one would not be happy doing that for a few bob a year and no long term security.

I also do run some of my own ventures,but as said it can be a bit time consuming and disruptive.

Earl

 

seo experts are 10 a penny, you can hire very good ones for a monthly fee.

Not quite 10 a penny I am afraid:

http://www.clientsidesem.com/seo-sem-services/

Earl

 

[john resident]

SEO is only one tool in the box (so to speak) why would you give any equity share for that?

I have used elance a number of times and as long as the milestones are defined it has worked fine (sometimes it hasnt worked but then money hasnt changed hands)

esk247 I have business plans and sometimes wear suits but I firmly believe in retaining as much equity in businesses as possible!

 

[JohnnyCash]

Not quite 10 a penny I am afraid:

http://www.clientsidesem.com/seo-sem-services/

Earl

And it will still be significantly cheaper to hire Aaron for 6 months than to give away equity in your company...

 

And it will still be significantly cheaper to hire Aaron for 6 months than to give away equity in your company...

Possibly over a period of time.

But then why would you want to hire an inferior product.?

Earl

 

SEO is only one tool in the box (so to speak) why would you give any equity share for that?

Good question.

well if you have an online business then you are quite likely to be dependant for sales on the search engine traffic.

And if like one of the companies I work with you see your traffic go from 200 potential customers a day to 10k per day.

you may consider it to be worth your while giving up a part of your companies profits on the basis that 50% of something is worth a tad more than 100% of nothing.

Earl

 

[john resident]

Earl,

But are you saying that if I had paid for someone to do the SEO I wouldnt have been able to get from 200 to 10k?

If the potential traffic is there then wouldnt others be able to get it?

10,000 visitors a day is an awful lot of traffic - is that in the UK?

If thats the case what have you got that other SEO people who work on a paid basis havent got?

I mean this in a curious way because if you have an edge that others don't then equity share may be the best way forward!

 

Earl,

But are you saying that if I had paid for someone to do the SEO I wouldnt have been able to get from 200 to 10k?

If the potential traffic is there then wouldnt others be able to get it?

10,000 visitors a day is an awful lot of traffic - is that in the UK?

If thats the case what have you got that other SEO people who work on a paid basis havent got?

I mean this in a curious way because if you have an edge that others don't then equity share may be the best way forward!

No I am not saying others can't do what I can do.

Its simply the basis that I work on.

10k visitor is either a little or a lot depends what type of site one is talking about.

I believe facebook has 14 million a day.

Earl

 

[SEO Lady]

Usually the best way to deal with them is stop them half way through their sales pitch and say "well if its such an amazing idea, you should just pay me up front and you can keep all the profits". Like you say, you never hear back from them after that

I knew I'd seen this thread somewhere. I've just been asked to work on results, there's arguments for and against. If anyone wants the lead PM me

 

[I, Brian]

Usually the best way to deal with them is stop them half way through their sales pitch and say "well if its such an amazing idea, you should just pay me up front and you can keep all the profits". Like you say, you never hear back from them after that

Quite right - needs underlining.

 

[mobyme]

We get approached at least four times a week by companies looking for SEO/SEM on a POR basis. We never undertake the work on that basis; but just like Earl we will hear them out and if we like the product or service offer them an equity agreement, providing we believe we can work with their people.
Some accuse us of trying to take advantage; we see it more of an opportunity for them to turbo charge their business.
A 100% of nothing is nothing; 90-95% of a successful business can be a great deal of money.

 

A 100% of nothing is nothing; 90-95% of a successful business can be a great deal of money.

What a cheapskate.

Earl

 

[mobyme]

What a cheapskate.

Earl

That's me; pure penury it is.

 

[john resident]

mobyme,

When you say POR I assume you mean pay on return.

How do they define 'return'. Is it:
1. actual sales/profit/number of leads
2. a specified position on google for specified keywords

If its 1 then it would be very difficult measure anyway as you are esssentially becoming a partner of the business and I can understand why you would hesitate to work on that business.

If its 2 then I would never pay upfront I would always pay once you'd reached the agreed position for the agreed keywords (and then agree a retainer to keep you there).

John

 

[mobyme]

mobyme,

When you say POR I assume you mean pay on return.

Pay on results.

 

[PrettyCherry1988]

Yes, just like someone said before, only good SEO's will do pay on results.

 

[RedEvo]

Yes, just like someone said before, only good SEO's will do pay on results.

Or those using black hat techniques who can guarantee a short term boost.

d

 

Or those using black hat techniques who can guarantee a short term boost.

d

Why would an SEO want a short term boost ,when they could enjoy many years of income.?:|

Earl

 

[SEO Lady]

Why would an SEO want a short term boost ,when they could enjoy many years of income.?:|

Earl

That's a good point in this case.

When was the last time anyone worked on POR and how many times did it pay off versus not paying off at all?

 

[RedEvo]

Why would an SEO want a short term boost ,when they could enjoy many years of income.?:|

Earl

Thought we were talking pay on results not equity share. Not the same thing.

d

 

[DeadlineData]

Ive got Andy@ New Media on board.

Brilliant guy.

 

[Kristoffer]

A lot of companies will charge you based on results. Many of them will want a start-up fee though. That's reasonable because they will have costs up front.

 

[cyberdesignz]

Are you refering to pay on results or equity deals?

I'd say the opposite. If an SEO is established and provides a good service, why would they be interested in doing free work? They could easily be working £20-300 / hour, depending on reputation.

Pay on results does exist, but it is bottom of the market.

I think no company will be offering his services for free because achieving results take time.

 

[EPtrading]

The last business I worked for before setting up my own company had a good successful idea but not much funding. It was roughly 2 years ago and Bank loans just weren't available without assets to secure them, it had relatively low set-up costs but couldn't afford to pay the going rates for everything without an investor (which would be as or more expensive equity wise), so most employees and sub-contractors (including SEO) worked on a mix of pay and equity.

Obviously a risk, but that equity has provided me with enough money to start my own fledgling business and the company would not have expanded without giving away the equity. Its just an alternative model of funding - do you sell the equity to an investor or your sub-contractors? The owner now owns about 70% of her business I think, which is probably a larger percentage than an investor would have allowed her to keep.