Party Wall Agreements

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A

Arcadian

  • #1
    First of all, please forgive me (or move or delete ....:eek:) if this is covered in another thread.

    We have an existing conservatory with a wall against our neighbour's garden (1930s terraced house). We need to replace the conservatory with a new one. As I understand it, the Party Wall Act 1996 requires us to give notice to our neighbour specifiying works etc etc and she then agrees to it.She would, there is no problem there.

    However, the conservatory company expect us to get an Award - the thing where 1 - 3 surveyors get together and decide what can be done and get a solicitor involved. It's my understanding - with my 27 year old law degree - that the Award/multiple surveyors procedure is only brought into play when there is a disagreement about work to be done. Indeed it seems to me that having one of those in place would wrongly suggest to a future purchaser that there had in fact been a dispute, and who would want to buy a property where there was even a hint of a dispute with a neighbour??

    Problem - when you ask a surveyor or solicitor what's needed they will naturally tell you the whole shebang. OK, maybe I'm being cynical. I have no objection to following correct procedure and paying appropriate fees but surely this act was brought it to simplify things not to get everyone running to lawyers.

    I'd love to hear of other members' experiences with this.
     
    estwig

    estwig

    Free Member
    Sep 29, 2006
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    in the cloud
  • #2
    Surveyors and solicitors who will work with the party wall act over a conservatory, are thieveing Sharlatans. Don't get them involved, you do not need them.

    Have a good read of The party wall act etc, 1996 on the back page there are some phone numbers, call the Pyramus and Thistle Club. Once they have calmed down about what thieveing gits surveyors are;), they will give you good free advice.


    Do not get the surveyors involved, they will steal your money.
     
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    crossdaz

  • #4
    Arcadian said:
    We have an existing conservatory with a wall against our neighbour's garden (1930s terraced house). We need to replace the conservatory with a new one. As I understand it, the Party Wall Act 1996 requires us to give notice to our neighbour specifiying works etc etc and she then agrees to it.She would, there is no problem there.
    .
    Click to expand...

    In simple terms, the Party Wall Act applies where alterations to a structural wall would have an effect on a neighbouring property. I'm not sure how a conservatory would be included in this unless there is some detail you have omitted?

    I take it the garden wall will be unaffected, in which case, you have fulfilled your obligations under the act by issuing notice.

    At the moment it looks like a complete red herring - you might be better off employing another conservatory company in my humble opinion?

    Some more guidance in addition to estwig's here:

    http://www.thenbs.com/BuildingRegs/...ts.aspx?section=018&topic=b_01_ASHCT_BR_01801
     
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    A

    Arcadian

  • #8
    crossdaz said:
    In simple terms, the Party Wall Act applies where alterations to a structural wall would have an effect on a neighbouring property. I'm not sure how a conservatory would be included in this unless there is some detail you have omitted?

    I take it the garden wall will be unaffected, in which case, you have fulfilled your obligations under the act by issuing notice.
    Click to expand...

    There is a 3m long, 2m high wall which sticks out on the boundary line (before the fence starts) and the conservatory butts on to this. The whole terrace of houses has conservatories that stretch between this wall and the larder/loo/coalshed arrangements along the other side.I should probably go find a pic ...

    Some neighbours have a stupid gap between wall and conservatory but mostly it seems to accommodate horrible plastic bolt on box type of conservatory. It's taken me ages to find one who will build a steep roof like we have now with opening window vents, and with a glass roof. I like light coming into my house and don't want to block it with white/bronze polycarbonate. Hence the choice of company who seem sensible apart from this party wall issue.
     
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    A

    Arcadian

  • #9
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    crossdaz

  • #10
    Arcadian said:
    There is a 3m long, 2m high wall which sticks out on the boundary line (before the fence starts) and the conservatory butts on to this.
    Click to expand...

    According to your pictures it looks like that half of the shed belongs to you? The brickwork on the other side looks like it's just part of your other neighbour's conservatory so that can't be an issue?

    What am I missing?
     
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    MrsPWN

    MrsPWN

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    Jul 25, 2009
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    Snowdonia
  • #12
    Well said Estwig, if they can't even get this right you need to look for a better company. I had a loft conversion done and we needed a Party Wall Agreement, didn't get on particularly with the neighbours but I took it round and asked nicely and they signed it, job jobbed, no one else involved.
     
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    A

    Arcadian

  • #13
    MrsPWN, I always think it's in a neighbour's best interests to sign in case they want to do some work themselves later. Then you are hardly likely to object if they agreed to yours!

    The right hand side of the conservatory is ours,yes. It's the larder/boilder cupboard/loo bit. The left hand side was the original garden wall. Our conservatory has that as part of its wall, as do most around here. So is that not a party wall then?

    There is a gap the other side as the neighbour's conservatory doesn't go right up. Idiot builder who did hers told here there had to be a gap so they didn't even ask us. We've heard that before with other neighbours but I suspect it's the fact that the cheap companies only do modular conservatories that wouldn't fit right across.
     
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    crossdaz

  • #14
    Arcadian said:
    So is that not a party wall then?
    Click to expand...

    Not really. It's not a structural aspect of the house, only of the conservatory.

    The only issue I can think of is that your new conservatory will have a greater imposed loading on any existing supporting wall than the one you have now.

    So long as they have done the calculation and decided the existing wall is sufficient then I should think that having a party wall agreement in place is the absolute extreme of how far you should go?
     
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    Arcadian

  • #15
    We will be completely rebuilding the wall. That's another silly thing - it's falling down anyway and is probably dangerous. It would be supremely silly if you couldn't rebuild dangerous walls.No doubt the act covers that somewhere - or it's part of general common law that you can rebuild a dangerous wall. I note the act only replaces common law in the specific areas it covers.

    The wall was originally a garden wall. Does building a conservatory mean it is now part of the house? Or is a conservatory just a garden building?
     
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    crossdaz

  • #16
    Arcadian said:
    We will be completely rebuilding the wall. That's another silly thing - it's falling down anyway and is probably dangerous. It would be supremely silly if you couldn't rebuild dangerous walls.No doubt the act covers that somewhere - or it's part of general common law that you can rebuild a dangerous wall. I note the act only replaces common law in the specific areas it covers.

    The wall was originally a garden wall. Does building a conservatory mean it is now part of the house? Or is a conservatory just a garden building?
    Click to expand...

    No, a conservatory is not part of the house - I'm not sure where the distinction is made - I'll go and do a bit of research I think :)
     
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    crossdaz

  • #17
    crossdaz said:
    No, a conservatory is not part of the house - I'm not sure where the distinction is made - I'll go and do a bit of research I think :)
    Click to expand...

    Here you go:

    As defined by Building Regs: L2B Conservation of Fuel & Power
    A conservatory is an extension to a building which:
    a.has not less than three quarters of its roof area and not less than one half of its external wall area made from translucent material and

    b.is thermally separated from the building by walls, windows and doors with the same U-value and draught-stripping provisions as provided elsewhere in the building.

    There is a useful Best Practice guide HERE. The party wall aspect is mentioned, but only in so much as already covered. There is some useful info contained though, so worth keeping a copy.

    The 45 degrees of seperation article mentioned earlier is HERE
     
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    Arcadian

  • #18
    Thanks, Crossdaz, I'll look into that,though I think the PW actmight specifically include garden walls in some circumstances.

    I'm really enjoying this debate. It's getting the old brain cells working and they don't see nearly enough activity. The phrase "Fine Legal Brain" is used in a sarcastic and derogatory manner in this house!
     
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    crossdaz

  • #20
    Arcadian said:
    Thanks, Crossdaz, I'll look into that,though I think the PW actmight specifically include garden walls in some circumstances.

    I'm really enjoying this debate. It's getting the old brain cells working and they don't see nearly enough activity. The phrase "Fine Legal Brain" is used in a sarcastic and derogatory manner in this house!
    Click to expand...

    For commercial property there are many complicated issues and regular disputes, mainly because the parties involved have their own legal departments with nothing better to do.

    For residential property, in the most part, it's a bit of a nonsense.
     
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    D

    Designer1

  • #21
    I think that I am inclined to agree with the suggestion that you replace your contractor and employ someone who understands the act.

    My interpretation of the Party Wall Act is that it was designed to prevent structural work from being carried out that would otherwise affect the stability of a neighbouring property.

    Where Party Wall notices are applicable, I would always recommend employing the services of someone who is familiar with the process. In my opinion the contractor should have someone on their team or appoint someone to take care of this. It can feel like a daunting task to the unfamiliar....

    ...............................

    Regards

    Valton

    Chartered Architectural Technologist
     
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    crossdaz

  • #25
    Tej said:
    LOL..
    In the old days they were thinking of bringing out a new powder named FUG.

    The jingle that they thought of ... went..

    "If OMO doesn't whiten it, and DAZ doesn't brighten it.. then FUG it"
    Click to expand...

    I was going to suggest it was just as well he was too young to remember OMO and thought better of it.

    Thanks :(
     
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