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Morgan

  • #1
    Can I just run something by you guys?

    I think intiatially I would take someone on a casual basis where they would get a cut from the dog they walked? When the business built up I would then like to employ them on a part time basis. If I got a contract that stated their hours be say 10 hours per week, then I guess I would have to pay them for that even if I couldn't provide them with 10 hours work? At this point would I be paying them an hourly rate rather than them having a cut of the dog walk? Finally, holiday pay would be based on the 10 hours worked right? What if they worked more than the 10 hours contracted - obviously I would pay them according but would this affect their holiday entitlement?
     
    M

    Morgan

  • #7
    Yeah someone suggested students to me but I'm not sure I would be 100% sure they would be reliable having once been one myself!! I think my clients would prefer a more mature person without sounding too ageist?
     
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    L

    Lisette

  • #8
    back to zero hours contracts. Basically you do not have to offer work and they do not have to take it. Good to build something in that says if they turn down 2 or 3 times they void their contract.

    Holiday entitlement (should do this in hours probably coz easier to calculate) is accrued against hours worked and when they get to a day's entitlement you ask them when they want to take it and put this through as a day of work - showing they have taken it (or something like that - and you can do in half days if you prefer).

    You need to get a contract template or some such - probably can find more info on google or I think sjbeale who is on the forum sells this sort of stuff. I am an HR professional but this is not what I do so I do not have any templates else would let you have one. Clearly you need to get this all water tight - ACAS are also helpful (in my experience) especially if you explain you are trying do do the right thing.

    Another option is to contract x hours per week but have this worked as banked time with the ability for the person to bo +/- x hours (i.e. work up to a certain amount too many or two few. If you do this build in ability to review hours on an hourly basis and adjust contract accondingly.

    I was one of the people to suggest students (by the way) and we have used them for years for our cats (they actually live in when we are away). Never had a problem. We tend to go for older one (Masters/PhD's) for three years we used a younger cat sitter once but her parents were near by so kept an eye on things (we felt!).
     
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    M

    Morgan

  • #9
    Thanks for that detailed reply Lisette.

    So it would be better to pay them in hours rather than 'commission per walk' as it would be easier to calculate holiday pay. Dumb question now what is a 'day' ie how many hours would they have to work before they could have a day off and how many hours is in that day?

    Good point, when I think student I think teenager but as you say that is not necessarily the case. Having that said we have no uni's round here so there isn't an influx of mature students to choose from.
     
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    T

    TSx

  • #10
    I used to be on a zero hours contract and was required to work any amount of hours above 0, I couldn't just say no.

    It was standard practice at the company, and even the full time staff were on them (so sometimes their hours dropped to 20 or less). There was no overtime either when I did 60 hour weeks :)
     
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    L

    Lisette

  • #11
    A different question - which is better? - my previous reply was in response to your asking how to put on a contract. I am not a tax expert nor a lawyer, so cannot give you formal advice and in any case there is insuffient information. Also I do not know your rationale for putting on a contract. Personally I probably would not hire on a contract since complicated to employ people - but I do not know what sort of business structure you have.

    But you need to get a vew from your accountant. Plus ACAS. Also the inland revenue are quite helpful. Also there will be different thresholds depending on hours they work and how much they earn etc
     
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    bwglaw

    bwglaw

    Free Member
    Apr 8, 2005
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    Richmond, Surrey
  • #12
    With no disrespect to any HR consultants on here. A HR consultant is not appropriately trained to draft legal documents and they take great risk in doing so. This is a specialist skill of a lawyer.

    I personally do not like zero-hours contracts because they tend to be neither here or there. You need a contract that is very clear the person is either a worker or self-employed. By ensuring the contract and the working relationship is clear you will avert difficulties later.

    Getting trapped in the grey areas is where lawyers generate fees. It pays to take good advice in the early stages to avert costly proceedings/disputes later.

    Jonathan
     
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    L

    Lisette

  • #13
    Jonathan - you are pretty much echoing what I have just said which is professional advice is required before Morgan employs people and puts them on a contract - although in defence of the HR profession in general (should it feel the need to be defended :) ), I think that you may find some can cover employment contracts to a sufficient degree to protect themselves and their clients/employer. In the right circ's with a properly written contract I think zero hours ones are fine - provided they are not being used to circumvent any employee rights etc. But that would be the topic of a different thread - delighted if you visit my forum and start up this debate.:D
     
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    M

    Morgan

  • #14
    Thanks guys. I am a sole trader and would love to hire people that were self employed to work for me but as this isn't likely to be 'legal' (or whatever the correct terminology is) I think they will have to be employees. I am going to see an employment lawyer regards this all but I just wanted to have it clearer in my head first. I was also hoping to approach a couple of people I had in mind and was trying to pre-empt any questions they may have.
     
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    L

    Lisette

  • #15
    I think it is good to get the options identified and thought through and happy to help as much as I can. Then you know exactly what to ask the employment lawyer - which makes it easier for them as well (not to mention, cheaper for you!)
     
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    Cornish Steve

    Cornish Steve

    Free Member
    Jul 4, 2005
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    Atlanta, Georgia, USA (formerly Cornwall, UK)
  • #17
    stevemcqueen said:
    who would take up a job for under 10 hours? mr bean. there better off on the dole
    Click to expand...
    In the meantime, eager workers from India and China and eastern Europe who, thanks to the global economy, have access to the same knowledge and many opportunities as Brits, are only too pleased to work ten hours a week and prove their worth.

    OK, such people can't help with a dog-walking business, but it's the attitude that I must admit gets to me: Rather just accept dole money than work ten hours a week. Where do you think Britain's economy will be in 20 years' time with an attitude like that? There's nothing superior about British people. What helped us in the past was superb education and our work ethic. If these are on the wane, heaven help us! A job working ten hours a week could be an important stepping stone to a job working 20 hours a week or 40 hours a week.
     
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    K

    kjframpton1

  • #18
    Who would work only 10 hrs?

    I guess it all depends, I am assuming you are starting up a dog walking business. Not everyone is money orientated.

    If I lived in a one bedroom flat, loved dogs and was unable to keep a dog myself. The chance to walk someone else's dog or dogs for a couple of hours and relax. Also their is a chance as the business grows you become more involved and or the company offers you the opportunity to invest in the company.

    Also it is not just the unemployed who look for an extra few hours. Everyone has different reasons for part time work.
     
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    bwglaw

    bwglaw

    Free Member
    Apr 8, 2005
    4,567
    242
    Richmond, Surrey
  • #19
    Morgan said:
    ...would love to hire people that were self employed to work for me but as this isn't likely to be 'legal' (or whatever the correct terminology is) I think they will have to be employees.
    Click to expand...

    Not necessarily.

    I am going to see an employment lawyer regards this all but I just wanted to have it clearer in my head first. I was also hoping to approach a couple of people I had in mind and was trying to pre-empt any questions they may have.
    Click to expand...

    We practise employment law so feel free to email us for 30-minutes free initial legal advice. We can quote on any contracts you may require.


    Jonathan
     
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