Page Rank - Internal and External links

Top Hat

Free Member
Mar 3, 2005
2,183
172
Airstrip One
We are in the process of redesigning our site and have some questions.

1) External links, every page will have links to our Facebook, twitter, youtube, addthis pages, does this sap our page rank?, will it be a problem? is there anything we should do?

2) Internal pages, every page has a link to our contact, privacy , terms etc. These are obviously important pages to have on the site but I don't want google to think they are my most important pages, in the past I've used rel="nofollow", should I? what should I do?

Thanks
 
E

eventdomain

Page rank is basically worthless and cannot measure how successful a website really is. It gives no indication of speed, service, quality or reputation, and thus is useless as a guide.

Forget pagerank and concentrate on getting visitors.
 
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Top Hat

Free Member
Mar 3, 2005
2,183
172
Airstrip One
Page rank is basically worthless and cannot measure how successful a website really is. It gives no indication of speed, service, quality or reputation, and thus is useless as a guide.

Forget pagerank and concentrate on getting visitors.

So if google no longer uses link popularity to rank sites, how does google rank sites?
 
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2) Internal pages, every page has a link to our contact, privacy , terms etc. These are obviously important pages to have on the site but I don't want google to think they are my most important pages, in the past I've used rel="nofollow", should I? what should I do?

Your page rank evaporates from a nofollowed link - so you don't keep it. Using a regular link will keep that pr circulating inside your site. You would be better off just having these links on one page rather than every page if you think it's important.
 
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Page rank is not worth bothering about, My site is ranked has a 1 but we get enough hits to rank it on first page for about 5-6 key phrase's,
and a big shopping centre is only ranked as 3 so i don't know how they
work this out.

And im not bang on with website ranking just starting to learn over
the past couple of month's so i know ive got a long way to go,
And if anyone can help on my front page ive got a slide show can
anyone change it and how much?

Have a look at my code.
 
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Page rank is not worth bothering about, My site is ranked has a 1 but we get enough hits to rank it on first page for about 5-6 key phrase's,
and a big shopping centre is only ranked as 3 so i don't know how they
work this out.

I'm referring to actual page rank - not tool bar page rank. Every page on the web has real page rank and it flows or evaporates - whether you like it or not.
 
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estwig

Free Member
Sep 29, 2006
13,071
4,830
in the cloud
If you set a link from your website to be nofollow, you are not keeping link juice to yourself, you are not gaining anything. If you set a link form your website to be dofollow, you are not losing any link juice or page rank, Google will not penalise you for this, Google encourages you to link out to other relevant sites, it is fundamental to how websites are ranked. Just don't link out, too much.


To the op, don't worry, google is not that daft, it understands you will link to your contact page on every page, you will have links to social media, you will have a menu system with the same links on every page, you will have a link to your checkout on every page.
 
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estwig

Free Member
Sep 29, 2006
13,071
4,830
in the cloud
We are in the process of redesigning our site and have some questions.

1) External links, every page will have links to our Facebook, twitter, youtube, addthis pages, does this sap our page rank?, will it be a problem? is there anything we should do?

2) Internal pages, every page has a link to our contact, privacy , terms etc. These are obviously important pages to have on the site but I don't want google to think they are my most important pages, in the past I've used rel="nofollow", should I? what should I do?

Thanks

Thought I might elaborate, assuming the links to your 'contact us' page, and you have one of those social media type buttons and these appear on every page of your website. Make sue they are not in the main area of copy on the page, the contact us page will be in your menu system, presumably at the top or the left of every page. Place the social media buttons in a similar place, in the same place on every page. This tells Google they are part of you overall site structure. Links going from within the copy of a page are the ones which tell Google, which of your pages you consider important.
 
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Thought I might elaborate, assuming the links to your 'contact us' page, and you have one of those social media type buttons and these appear on every page of your website. Make sue they are not in the main area of copy on the page, the contact us page will be in your menu system, presumably at the top or the left of every page. Place the social media buttons in a similar place, in the same place on every page. This tells Google they are part of you overall site structure. Links going from within the copy of a page are the ones which tell Google, which of your pages you consider important.

In the footer? :)
 
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If you set a link from your website to be nofollow, you are not keeping link juice to yourself, you are not gaining anything. If you set a link form your website to be dofollow, you are not losing any link juice or page rank, Google will not penalise you for this, Google encourages you to link out to other relevant sites, it is fundamental to how websites are ranked. Just don't link out, too much.


To the op, don't worry, google is not that daft, it understands you will link to your contact page on every page, you will have links to social media, you will have a menu system with the same links on every page, you will have a link to your checkout on every page.

Well done! Yes, if you have your links no follow or not, you are not keeping your page rank, years ago, people would do page rank sculpting. No more.

The only reason sites like digg, facebook etc have nofollow, is to stop all the pathetic spammers, its a shame to us honest ones.

I always say to people to try to link to quality relevant websites, if its not relevant point out why, or it could be seen as a paid link.

i.e if I have a site about Cattle and I am linking to a shoe shop, I should make a note of it.

Hey, my mate Dave from the pub has a great shoe shop down the road, heres the link.... (insert link)
 
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Well done! Yes, if you have your links no follow or not, you are not keeping your page rank, years ago, people would do page rank sculpting. No more.

The only reason sites like digg, facebook etc have nofollow, is to stop all the pathetic spammers, its a shame to us honest ones.

I always say to people to try to link to quality relevant websites, if its not relevant point out why, or it could be seen as a paid link.

i.e if I have a site about Cattle and I am linking to a shoe shop, I should make a note of it.

Hey, my mate Dave from the pub has a great shoe shop down the road, heres the link.... (insert link)
Im going to start trying to linking with other site's, but how do i know what a quality link is, Im new to this, ive just got control of site Thanks.

Gary
 
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Im going to start trying to linking with other site's, but how do i know what a quality link is, Im new to this, ive just got control of site Thanks.

Gary

Hi Gary,

Try and link to a website that is established and trusted. Make sure that they dont have crazy malware or porn adverts etc. (unless its related)

See where they are linking to? Are they linking to relevant sites? Are they a link farm? If the website that you are linking to, is at the top of the search results for a particular term, then you know that google thinks its an authority website already!
 
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No-one outside of google knows exactly how pagerank is implemented, and it is one of things that google make extremely difficult to reverse engineer, since externally we only see a rounded integer number and one that could be a few months old, we don't get to see the internal realtime number accurate to various decimal points.

We do know that google patented pagerank in 2001, we do know that nofollow as a concept wasn't created until 2005, and we do know that Google changed their handling of pagerank and nofollow links in 2009. But that's about all we can really know, and it is difficult if not impossible to know for sure about the internal implementation of algorithm, and possibly how google might treat some links differently to others (the patent is pretty vague and gives Google a hell of a lot of leeway in terms of what it can do, and what it has done since the patent).

Which means that some of the information on this thread might be right, some might be chinese whispers in origin perhaps based on original source which is vague, some might provide abstract approximations, some might relate to aspects of the ranking algorithm (not the pagerank algorithm), and some of the information on this thread might sound likely or feasible but be plain wrong, including what I'm going to say next (I think it might be right, but I also think there's a chance it could be wrong) ...

The pagerank algorithm in the patent allows for an iterative and cyclical flow of pagerank with a dampening factor, ie. your home page could pass pagerank onto a section page, but that section page in turn could pass pagerank back to the home page, which in turn passes some of that pagerank back to section page and so on (in an ever-decreasing feedback loop, with less and less pagerank being passed due to a dampening effect/factor).

If such an algorithm is used, then it is possible for a section page to indirectly lose pagerank by linking out and/or linking nofollow too much, because it reduces the share of the pagerank it returns back to the home page, which in turn reduces the pagerank that the homepage can pass back to the section page.

For anyone with the inclination to get into the maths of the pagerank algorithm, there is this book: Google's Pagerank and Beyond, but even with that book it will only discuss the possible maths theories behind the Google's implementation of the algorithm, not google's final or current implementation of the algorithm.

In simple terms, where possible I would try to avoid too many external links, I'd try to avoid too many links full stop. If you want to litter your pages with social bookmarking links perhaps consider using non-search engine friendly linking methods (some fancy Javascript or Flash which doesn't detract too much from the content for the users). Also question whether you really need to link to that W3 HTML and CSS validator on every page.

As for nofollowing internal links to say a contact us page, why would you link to a contact us page on your own site but essentially say "I cannot vouch for this page".
 
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No-one outside of google knows exactly how pagerank is implemented, and it is one of things that google make extremely difficult to reverse engineer, since externally we only see a rounded integer number and one that could be a few months old, we don't get to see the internal realtime number accurate to various decimal points.

We do know that google patented pagerank in 2001, we do know that nofollow as a concept wasn't created until 2005, and we do know that Google changed their handling of pagerank and nofollow links in 2009. But that's about all we can really know, and it is difficult if not impossible to know for sure about the internal implementation of algorithm, and possibly how google might treat some links differently to others (the patent is pretty vague and gives Google a hell of a lot of leeway in terms of what it can do, and what it has done since the patent).

Which means that some of the information on this thread might be right, some might be chinese whispers in origin perhaps based on original source which is vague, some might provide abstract approximations, some might relate to aspects of the ranking algorithm (not the pagerank algorithm), and some of the information on this thread might sound likely or feasible but be plain wrong, including what I'm going to say next (I think it might be right, but I also think there's a chance it could be wrong) ...

The pagerank algorithm in the patent allows for an iterative and cyclical flow of pagerank with a dampening factor, ie. your home page could pass pagerank onto a section page, but that section page in turn could pass pagerank back to the home page, which in turn passes some of that pagerank back to section page and so on (in an ever-decreasing feedback loop, with less and less pagerank being passed due to a dampening effect/factor).

If such an algorithm is used, then it is possible for a section page to indirectly lose pagerank by linking out and/or linking nofollow too much, because it reduces the share of the pagerank it returns back to the home page, which in turn reduces the pagerank that the homepage can pass back to the section page.

For anyone with the inclination to get into the maths of the pagerank algorithm, there is this book: Google's Pagerank and Beyond, but even with that book it will only discuss the possible maths theories behind the Google's implementation of the algorithm, not google's final or current implementation of the algorithm.

In simple terms, where possible I would try to avoid too many external links, I'd try to avoid too many links full stop. If you want to litter your pages with social bookmarking links perhaps consider using non-search engine friendly linking methods (some fancy Javascript or Flash which doesn't detract too much from the content for the users). Also question whether you really need to link to that W3 HTML and CSS validator on every page.

As for nofollowing internal links to say a contact us page, why would you link to a contact us page on your own site but essentially say "I cannot vouch for this page".

Hi Paul im new to controlling my site, So what you are saying is that all the forums and social media we join and all the free listing ad's link to my site weather they are good or bad one's.
 
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So what you are saying is that all the forums and social media we join and all the free listing ad's link to my site weather they are good or bad one's.
I don't quite see how what I said could be interpreted in such a way to come up with that statement. I'm not quite sure I understand that statement. Could you clarify please?

I guess this is a good example of how SEO advice or information can be interpreted in different ways.
 
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I don't quite see how what I said could be interpreted in such a way to come up with that statement. I'm not quite sure I understand that statement. Could you clarify please?

I guess this is a good example of how SEO advice or information can be interpreted in different ways.

What i meant was that if i sign up to a forum and put my site on profile they make a link to my site weather they are a good site or not, Has i said im new to this so im just trying to take it all in at the mow, just so i can update my site myself.

Thanks
Gary
 
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What i meant was that if i sign up to a forum and put my site on profile they make a link to my site weather they are a good site or not
Yes, having a profile link and then posting, should get you a link, from this forum at least. But assessing the value of such links is the tricky bit. Some links are more valuable than others, and that's where it starts getting complicated.
 
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Internal Links
The position of the link relative to other content on the page is also important. A link positioned higher on a page is considered more important than one placed lower down.
External Links
Just like with internal links, Google will use the pages you link to to determine the subject matter of your page. This works irrespective of whether or not the link is to an internal page or an external one.
 
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