Online Marketing Consultants

[oliver27]

Hi,

I've had a thought that maybe our company could benefit from a freelance online marketing specialist to guide us in terms of what to do to drive sales.

Firstly, where could I begin to search for such freelancers?

Secondly, how much is the average cost (I know I know - how long is a piece of string, but any rough indication would be appreciated)

Thanks

 

[neils3]

Hi Oliver,

In this industry you really pay for what you get. What help in particular are you looking for from the consultant?

Thanks
Neil

 

[Annoying Donkey]

Firstly, where could I begin to search for such freelancers?

I'd say by recommendation. Ask around your local business community. If their rankings have survived the panda and penguin updates, then they're probably a reasonable bet

Secondly, how much is the average cost (I know I know - how long is a piece of string, but any rough indication would be appreciated)

No such thing as average. Forget cost, look at ROI. A good marketer should be able to offer some indication of how much he can make for you. And maybe some or all on a performance basis. e.g. retainer plus percentage of resulting profits.
Unfortunately, you'll likely find the really good ones are in demand, so difficult to get their interest...

 

[oliver27]

Hi Oliver,

In this industry you really pay for what you get. What help in particular are you looking for from the consultant?

Thanks
Neil

Online marketing consultancy, so (I presume this is how it would work), they would sit down with us and discuss the business model and understand the concept, then suggest strategies to drive ROI. I'm not sure whether they would actually carry out the work or not, or if it would more a mentoring kind of role.

I'd say by recommendation. Ask around your local business community. If their rankings have survived the panda and penguin updates, then they're probably a reasonable bet

No such thing as average. Forget cost, look at ROI. A good marketer should be able to offer some indication of how much he can make for you. And maybe some or all on a performance basis. e.g. retainer plus percentage of resulting profits.
Unfortunately, you'll likely find the really good ones are in demand, so difficult to get their interest...

So google them? Or LinkedIn? If the retainer and then commission is a common practice in this industry, then I would much prefer that anyway, so that's a good idea

 

[Annoying Donkey]

So google them? Or LinkedIn? If the retainer and then commission is a common practice in this industry, then I would much prefer that anyway, so that's a good idea

I suggest your local community. Networking or C of C or similar. Ask any business associates who they use.
You get to speak to them face to face. Apart from actual marketing skills you also want someone you can work with...
I'd personally be wary of finding people through the internet in any way shape or form.

 

[intelligentppc]

I charge £100 per hour.

 

[Annoying Donkey]

I charge £100 per hour.

How many hours would it take you to make me £1,000,000...

 

[intelligentppc]

It took me 6 years to make that kind of money with Google!

 

[AllUpHere]

I charge £100 per hour.

Is that £100 including the Vat?

 

[intelligentppc]

Is that £100 including the Vat?

There is no VAT.

 

[AllUpHere]

There is no VAT.

You aren't VAT registered?

 

[intelligentppc]

Sending you a PM AllUpHere

 

[AllUpHere]

Sending you a PM AllUpHere

No worries. PM away.

 

[leveldisc]

Hi,

I've had a thought that maybe our company could benefit from a freelance online marketing specialist to guide us in terms of what to do to drive sales.

Firstly, where could I begin to search for such freelancers?

Secondly, how much is the average cost (I know I know - how long is a piece of string, but any rough indication would be appreciated)

Thanks

Hi Oliver,

I'm in the process of starting up as an Online Marketing Consultant (after 10 years doing promoting my own sites - 100K per annum ppc spend) and will be offering free consultations and recommendations between now and the spring. My primary focus is paid search (i.e. adwords, bing yahoo ads), but there is overlap with SEO, Conversion rate optimisation, social media, google shopping

So I would cost nothing at the moment If that's of interest drop me a line.

Generally speaking, if you looking at paid search, consultants / agencies roughly charge 10-20% of your spend, but obviously there is a minimum charge.

My first post done !
Hope no one is offended.

 

[Bill1954]

Offended ? of course we're offended
You didn't use the G word

 

[OakMarkLondon]

Hi Oliver27,

If you want to shop around you could try couple of websites that work with freelancers such as: odesk, people perhour, elance, freelancer. The prices will wary and you can read customers reviews about the quality of work.

<<< Links removed by Mod >>>

 

[intelligentppc]

Generally speaking, if you looking at paid search, consultants / agencies roughly charge 10-20% of your spend, but obviously there is a minimum charge.

Here is the problem in a nutshell. Unless the monthly spend is £5k or over it doesn't make financial sense for an expert marketing (or PPC) consultant to take it on - it's too much work for too little return. Consultants are far better chasing the medium-sized enterprises who have budgets in the £50k/month range - then they can charge a fee of around £5k/month and give it some serious time and attention.

Much better for the small companies to do DIY marketing based on tutorials/courses etc - warning though, don't choose impartial tutorials like G's free ones or you will be encouraged to spend more and more money.

 

[hughsie0016]

[QUOTE="Much better for the small companies to do DIY marketing based on tutorials/courses etc - warning though, don't choose impartial tutorials like G's free ones or you will be encouraged to spend more and more money.[/QUOTE]

I agree and there is the case that most small owners have limited budgets so do look to the "Self Teach" route. I would add that prices can be a kept a lot lower if marketing becomes more targeted.

In other words, don't try and conquer the whole internet world in one go i.e. feel you have to be using every social media channel, advertising on every ad platform etc.

Then there is also using common sense that if you are going to seek out video tutorials, make sure they are from a reputable source and not just a "great looking" YouTube video where you try and implement what is being suggested...and it doesn't work and you end up losing money and time as a result.

 

[oliver27]

[QUOTE="Much better for the small companies to do DIY marketing based on tutorials/courses etc - warning though, don't choose impartial tutorials like G's free ones or you will be encouraged to spend more and more money.

I agree and there is the case that most small owners have limited budgets so do look to the "Self Teach" route. I would add that prices can be a kept a lot lower if marketing becomes more targeted.

In other words, don't try and conquer the whole internet world in one go i.e. feel you have to be using every social media channel, advertising on every ad platform etc.

Then there is also using common sense that if you are going to seek out video tutorials, make sure they are from a reputable source and not just a "great looking" YouTube video where you try and implement what is being suggested...and it doesn't work and you end up losing money and time as a result.[/QUOTE]

Thanks - do you have any suggestions on a good video tutorial then?

 

[intelligentppc]

I'm working on one but it's not going to be ready for a couple of months. It will cost roughly £3-400.

 

[webgeek]

Sign up for the freshbananas.co.uk course. You will be glad you did, whether it's for the videos, thorough explanations in text, q&a forum where items are asked about and answered, or knowing that the team behind the course (spearheaded by long-time UKBF forum moderator Tin) are single-handedly responsible for top rankings of some of the more competitive and highly profitable search phrases that I've ever come out of a small agency.

If you've only got a few hundred quid to spend, do you go with the sure thing or play the long shot, knowing the result will determine whether you eat steak or shoe leather for dinner next month?

Seriously, the guy has a list of wins under his belt that would make Rand @Moz proud, because his approach simply works.

 

[OldWelshGuy]

People tend to have time or money, when they have both they have made it and don't really need to work.

If you have time and enough for the course, I would say go for it.

 

[Silky]

First of all I wouldn't jump at the first person who posts on a thread on a forum.... *shudder* (Or the masses of private messages you'll have).

What is it exactly you need help with?
SEO? PPC? Web development? Copy? Read the posts on here and you'll soon see who's worth listening to - not necessarily the same person for each of the above (in fact I'd say probably not). Checking out the website of the person in question and their testimonials can be quite telling too.

I'd second the recommendation above about Freshbananas - even if you're not confident of handling the online marketing yourself, learning about it means you're much less likely to fall for any bull (and believe me, there's a heck of a lot of it around).

Use the forum for advice too, you get a wide variety of approaches and answers and can find whatever suits your business.

 

[neils3]

Much better for the small companies to do DIY marketing based on tutorials/courses etc - warning though, don't choose impartial tutorials like G's free ones or you will be encouraged to spend more and more money.

I totally agree, hiring an agency to do the marketing is very costly for small businesses, that learning the skills and doing it yourself can be very effective. Especially now because so much of SEO is becoming less technical and more about promotion.

Don't try and do everything, focus on a few things at first and master them.

 

[Annoying Donkey]

that learning the skills and doing it yourself can be very effective.

I'm sure Richard Branson flies his own planes, services them, serves the food and drink (OK, he does occasionally serve food and drink on his planes, more PR than working in his business). Possibly the worse thing any business owner can do is try and do everything in his business - sure fire way to breakdowns and bankruptcy. IMHO the best thing he can do is delegate everything...

 

[intelligentppc]

I'm sure Richard Branson flies his own planes, services them, serves the food and drink (OK, he does occasionally serve food and drink on his planes, more PR than working in his business). Possibly the worse thing any business owner can do is try and do everything in his business - sure fire way to breakdowns and bankruptcy. IMHO the best thing he can do is delegate everything...

I agree with the sentiment here, but what I was getting at was that for small businesses it doesn't make financial sense to outsource a low-budget PPC campaign. It doesn't make financial sense for the agency either.

The spend must be over a certain level to make this kind of relationship viable for both parties.

 

[OldWelshGuy]

There is no one size fits all solution, although SEO hand holding could be an option, where you pay a small monthly fee and get guidance advice and help, but you do most of the grunt work.

 

[Silky]

I'm sure Richard Branson flies his own planes, services them, serves the food and drink (OK, he does occasionally serve food and drink on his planes, more PR than working in his business). Possibly the worse thing any business owner can do is try and do everything in his business - sure fire way to breakdowns and bankruptcy. IMHO the best thing he can do is delegate everything...

The problem with SEO is knowing who to trust to delegate it to. We've tried to delegate a couple of times and realised so many so-called 'experts' are in fact experts at self-promotion rather than delivering the goods. SEO isn't the black art so many trump it up to be, and it doesn't take long to at least understand the principles so it becomes second nature throughout the business for anyone involved in writing for or updating copy for the website. Learning a little about SEO (and again I'd recommend Freshbanana's course here) also means you're less likely to be ripped off in this area and know when someone is talking rubbish.

 

[Annoying Donkey]

I agree with the sentiment here, but what I was getting at was that for small businesses it doesn't make financial sense to outsource a low-budget PPC campaign. It doesn't make financial sense for the agency either.

I disagree. If the business is viable, a good marketer could make a huge difference. Just introduce a performance bonus/profit share into the equation and both can make enough money.

There is no one size fits all solution, although SEO hand holding could be an option, where you pay a small monthly fee and get guidance advice and help, but you do most of the grunt work.

I think an offering like this would work very well for the client. Though most marketers would probably prefer a larger client. Lots of small jobs means more overheads.

The problem with SEO is knowing who to trust to delegate it to. We've tried to delegate a couple of times and realised so many so-called 'experts' are in fact experts at self-promotion rather than delivering the goods. SEO isn't the black art so many trump it up to be, and it doesn't take long to at least understand the principles so it becomes second nature throughout the business for anyone involved in writing for or updating copy for the website. Learning a little about SEO (and again I'd recommend Freshbanana's course here) also means you're less likely to be ripped off in this area and know when someone is talking rubbish.

So delegate to your own trainee
I do agree that learning - at least the basics - is a good idea. But that doesn't require a course, just read Google's guidelines... And unfortunately a little knowledge can be dangerous. I bet every SEO can relate a story of a prospect wanting to rank for totally inappropriate keywords, because they "read somewhere"...

 

[webgeek]

Too many people confuse what they think they need with what is on offer:

1) VA - they do what you ask, but you need to know what needs done, and explain how to do it
2) Consultant - they know what needs done, but you need to actually do it, and already know how to do it
3) Consultant + Trainer - they know what needs done, teach you how to do it, and expect you to do it
4) Full Service Provider - they know what needs done, and will do it, but probably won't teach you how to do it too

You need a clear conception as to what you want/need.

If your rankings are in the dog house, do you:
a) have a clear understanding of any problems and what needs done to rectify and how to do each thing needing fixed? (VA)
b) understand the problem and roughly what needs done, but not exactly step by step how to do each thing? (high-end VA, service provider or consultant)
c) need a hand to diagnose the problem exactly? (consultant)
d) need a hand to diagnose and then explain how to fix each thing? (consultant + trainer)
e) need someone the figure it out and fix it for you? (service provider)

Issues can arise if you expect a service level different from what the other party is expecting to provide.

Note: A £1000 a day technical SEO may diagnose everything but won't have time to fix much if your budget is consumed before their first coffee break, just as you can get a whole lot more mileage from hiring a trainer/consultant then DIY'ing the tasks, especially if you get ongoing training, evaluating of your work along the way and clear instructions at the outset.

If you're paying fiverr prices for a VA to do your work as if it was assembly lines putting together toasters, don't expect them to have the engineering schematics memorised, along with the average power consumption over 12 months by a family of 4. They will need guidance, motivation, monitoring, so don't expect them to impart technical advice with rationale's.

No matter where you fall on the scale of doing, knowing, learning, if you first make sure you understand the fundamentals, you'll go far in choosing the right helpers for the right projects, thus saving you time and money.

 

[Silky]

So delegate to your own trainee

We do - I have someone now in house that helps with SEO and despite our knowledge being all gleaned from forums, blogs like Moz and the internet, we've some great rankings and some good volume number 1 spots. We're far, far, far off being experts but we have something an external agency doesn't - passion about our business; an in depth understanding of our product /consumers / suppliers and competitors and their behaviour; solid relationships with relevant parties. All have proven beneficial. No black art has been required to improve our rankings, but rather an understanding of what works on the web for our consumers and Google and instilling this discipline across anyone working on our site. If we can do it, anyone can.

I do agree that learning - at least the basics - is a good idea. But that doesn't require a course, just read Google's guidelines...

Google's resources are dry and not particularly easy to understand for the uninitiated - tune into Moz Blog over the Weetabix each morning, post questions on here and anyone will soon get a feel for where they should be heading to improve their site.

 

[Annoying Donkey]

We're far, far, far off being experts but we have something an external agency doesn't - passion about our business; an in depth understanding of our product /consumers / suppliers and competitors and their behaviour; solid relationships with relevant parties.

IMHO few businesses truly know and utilise this sort of information. We have a travel industry client who also holds a lot of data. We absolutely shocked them with the results we achieved for them. This was in 2011/2012 when they were predicting poor results, possibly their worst year in their history. They ended up having record sales

Sometimes a business owner can be too close and myopic. An outsider can bring a different perspective.

tune into Moz Blog over the Weetabix each morning

IMHO Moz is overrated, but probably better than most sources. Thing about G webmaster guidelines is that it defines what G wants, from the nags mouth...

 

[OldWelshGuy]

Google are VERY good at speaking in what i can only describe as masonic style dialogue, where the ACTUAL meaning has to be gleaned from reading a combination of texts they have produced.

It really is a tough task as they DO say what they want, but rarely is it directly even when they make out they are speaking directly.

 

[Silky]

IMHO few businesses truly know and utilise this sort of information. We have a travel industry client who also holds a lot of data. We absolutely shocked them with the results we achieved for them. .

Basic (very basic) marketing. Know your product, know your customers, know your market, know your competition. Miss out any of that and you're on a sticky wicket in my humble (marketing) opinion. It doesn't need massive research, but an eye on trends and activity so you're not left behind or don't miss an opportunity.

 

[InternetMarketingPlatinum]

IMHO few businesses truly know and utilise this sort of information. We have a travel industry client who also holds a lot of data. We absolutely shocked them with the results we achieved for them. This was in 2011/2012 when they were predicting poor results, possibly their worst year in their history. They ended up having record sales

Sometimes a business owner can be too close and myopic. An outsider can bring a different perspective.

IMHO Moz is overrated, but probably better than most sources. Thing about G webmaster guidelines is that it defines what G wants, from the nags mouth...

I don't agree about Moz being overrated. Yes it shouldn't be your only resource but it's very good.

If someone wants to learn SEO I certainly wouldn't just point them in the direction of Google Guidelines

 

[Annoying Donkey]

If someone wants to learn SEO I certainly wouldn't just point them in the direction of Google Guidelines

They tell you what G wants. Which should be a good indicator that those offering 1000 links for 99p, or 100 directory entries, or 100 search engine submissions, or whatever are not what G wants...
You don't need a course to figure this out...

 

[InternetMarketingPlatinum]

They tell you what G wants. Which should be a good indicator that those offering 1000 links for 99p, or 100 directory entries, or 100 search engine submissions, or whatever are not what G wants...
You don't need a course to figure this out...

Yes pbviously but like I said I wouldn't just point them in that direction. I would point them in that direction but not just that direction.

 

[Annoying Donkey]

Yes pbviously but like I said I wouldn't just point them in that direction. I would point them in that direction but not just that direction.

Small business owners are busy. They don't have money to throw around. They want something quick and cheap. An hour spent studying the G guidelines and then subsequently evaluating any offering from an online marketing consultant is economical in time and money...

 

[InternetMarketingPlatinum]

Small business owners are busy. They don't have money to throw around. They want something quick and cheap. An hour spent studying the G guidelines and then subsequently evaluating any offering from an online marketing consultant is economical in time and money...

Ok I see your point but what about a good blueprint which is created with the guidelines in mind, written by a trusted thought leader in the industry such as Moz

 

[zigojacko]

Moz is a great learning resource for anyone that wants to read real studies and research from some of the most reputable names in the industry. Sure, it gets some flack because there's plenty of sceptics out there who think giving Google what they want doesn't work and is flawed but nonetheless, testing is what proves how Google really works, and that's done a lot over at Moz. It would certainly be worth paying attention to what is said over there.