Not insolvent yet!

[Lisa Thomas]

So you are suggesting an IP will do it all for free?

No. We offered to speak to you for free about your options, which might have included how to dissolve the company if it cannot afford insolvency.

If you want to pay AG to buy your shares then that's your prerogative. You will lose control over what happens to the company and there is a risk it will enter an insolvency procedure and you will be subject to an investigation/the insolvency services will investigate your conduct. If there has been misconduct you can be sued, fined, and/or disqualified.

 

[pentel]

Income was 10k per month last year now barely 200/300 per month

Bbl 18k
2 company cars
5k overdraft

Could you advise what the assets of the company are worth ? Without substantial assets this doesn't read like a solvent company.

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

the conduct of any individual who has been a director in the last 3 years prior to liquidation will be subject to the usual reporting by the liquidator to the Insolvency Service.

Sir Philip Green springs to mind!

Sold insolvent BHS for a £1 as I remember then when it eventually collapsed the IS chased him for the pension deficit and Director ban.

 

[Elliot Green]

Could you advise what the assets of the company are worth ? Without substantial assets this doesn't read like a solvent company.

You have to apply the Section 123 of the Insolvency Act 1986 test:
- cash flow ability to pay debts when they fall due
- balance sheet

It is an either or test not an and test.

 

[Elliot Green]

Sir Philip Green springs to mind!

Sold insolvent BHS for a £1 as I remember then when it eventually collapsed the IS chased him for the pension deficit and Director ban.

With the negative publicity and suggestion of subverting the insolvency regime that attaches to the selling of an insolvent company when it is approaching the flatlining stage, in my view a director who adopts this type of approach, now ironically risks highlighting their company for more detailed review than if they go down the more traditional route of CVL.

If nothing else the director loses control of the company records, the narrative and even the appointment that can thereafter follow. In so doing, they lose control of the evidence and are no longer first to the table. In principle, this should not make any difference whatsoever but as we know there are typically only two certainties in life ...

The phrase I like to use when considering selling an insolvent company is you can dispose of the shares but not dispose of any misconduct. Obviously, there may have been no misconduct at all but it is not unknown for directors of insolvent companies to have acted beyond their Section 171 authority.

 

[Mark T Jones]

If nothing else the director loses control of the company records, the narrative and even the appointment that can thereafter follow. In so doing, they lose control of the evidence and are no longer first to the table. In principle, this should not make any difference whatsoever but as we know there are typically only two certainties in life ...

Somewhat related, I've mentioned on here a former client who went rogue and sold a clutch of companies to Mr Neville Taylor (DOB unknown)

We are now talking again (just) and attempting to reach a settlement.

In selling his companies he was assured that it would be a simple case of waiting for the company to be struck off. More important, he was promised that anything going legal would be bounced back to him so he could choose whether to resolve it independently.

Neither has happened - I have 2 CCJs against one of those companies and received no response whatsoever. Another has been liquidated by a leasing company - technically not my customer's problem, but the industry knows full well who is responsible & it will affect his (minimal) credibility with funders.

More perception than legal, but worth bearing in mind.

 

[jimbof]

Hi
Need advice
Ltd company running since 2018

Hit hard times, lost a few contracts

Income was 10k per month last year now barely 200/300 per month

Bbl 18k
2 company cars
5k overdraft

I have contacted bank to help with bbl - last pay as you grow and overdraft - 30 day hold.

We probably can carry on for 3-6 months hoping for pick up.

I saw the adverts for ANSON goldsmith - good reviews on trustpilot who buy your debt. They quite 2k fees.

If they do that the bbl and overdraft goes with the company and I am failing to see any legal repercussions.

Is the foundational argument here - that your company is not yet insolvent - actually false? It sounds like it actually is already insolvent on balance of your debts Vs assets, but are hoping to trade out of it. In that case I think it invalidates your premise that you could legitimately sell it on to this kind of outfit and have zero risk of comeback.

It sounds to me like your company may meet the definition of balance sheet insolvency, which I believe leaves decisions you are taking now subject to scrutiny.

 

[Elliot Green]

Is the foundational argument here - that your company is not yet insolvent - actually false? It sounds like it actually is already insolvent on balance of your debts Vs assets, but are hoping to trade out of it. In that case I think it invalidates your premise that you could legitimately sell it on to this kind of outfit and have zero risk of comeback.

It sounds to me like your company may meet the definition of balance sheet insolvency, which I believe leaves decisions you are taking now subject to scrutiny.

You can't sell any company (solvent or insolvent) and have zero risk. Section 994 petitions exist for wronged shareholders and that is not solvency dependant.

You can dispose of any company's (solvent or insolvent) shares (certainly pre-liquidation) provided you comply with the Articles and any Shareholder agreement(s); you cannot dispose of any misconduct (if indeed applicable).

A solvent company can however ratify breaches utilising Section 239 of the Companies Act 2006. The problem is often directors may not recognise they are in some breach and therefore in such an event cannot demonstrate they complied with the ratification procedures.

If however you are insolvent, ratification is outside the scope of Section 171 powers and therefore is otiose.

Disclaimer: This is not legal advice and should not be relied upon as such. This post is provided for information purposes only. You should seek independent advice on the discrete facts of your case.

 

[Warren G]

And what evidence do you have for this assertion. Again another 1 sentence opinion.

Was looking at same company. Just wondering what solution you came to?

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

I saw the adverts for ANSON goldsmith - good reviews on trustpilot who buy your debt. They quite 2k fees.

company been registered since 2021 yet still files dormant company accounts at Companies House!!!!!!

 

[ChrisCallaghan]

Was looking at same company. Just wondering what solution you came to?

Hi @Warren G , and welcome to UKBF. The OP of this thread has not been present on this site since 6th Feb, so I'm not sure if they are still active here.

Myself and others have shared our thoughts on companies like Anson Goldsmith, and also provided context by sharing information on how a company providing the same services was shut down in the public interest - I hope you find this thread helpful.

It sounds like you may be a director of a company that is currently struggling? If so, do you want to share details of your situation in a new thread in the Legal, Employment and Insolvency section, and see if UKBF members can offer you some support and advice?

 

[Lisa Thomas]

Agree with Chris, despite sounding bias we just want you to get advice from someone who is licensed and offering legal solutions!

 

[Pauls business]

I am active - I just couldnt be bothered to answer all the adverts from IPs. This is the biggest advertising forum i have ever seen and allowed.

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

I am active - I just couldnt be bothered to answer all the adverts from IPs. This is the biggest advertising forum i have ever seen and allowed.

so what did you decide on your plan of action for your insolvent company after reading all of the advice above?

Trading while insolvent, also known as wrongful trading, refers to a company continuing to operate despite being unable to pay its debts as they become due. This practice is a breach of a company director's duty and can lead to personal liability for directors. Directors who continue to trade when they know, or should have known, that there is no reasonable prospect of the company avoiding insolvency, may be held liable for losses incurred

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

I am active - I just couldnt be bothered to answer all the adverts from IPs. This is the biggest advertising forum i have ever seen and allowed.

What do you mean by this Paul although I am very active on here I dont get unsolicited pitches
Just wondering what's going on here

 

[GraemeL]

Some contibutors have shown far too much patience!

 

[fisicx]

What are the legal repercussions?

Legal repercussions of what?

Your opening posts just appeared to ask if using Anson was a good idea.

 

[Scam Baiter]

Greetings all,

I am what some may call a Scam Baiter and have been playing with these guys, as well as Atherton Corporate.

A few things here:

Phoenix Company Rescue aka Anson Goldsmiths Ltd

• They appear to use several addresses in Manchester
• None of the phone numbers on their website work - ie 0808 164 0721
• They are sending 'legal documents' from a firm of solicitors who were dissolved in November 2024 (incorporated June 2023), and seemingly was never registered with the SRA.
• Said legal firm's phone number does not work either.
• They are sending invoices said to be VAT invoices on behalf of Anson Goldsmiths Ltd - but actually, display no VAT number or breakdown of VAT.
• The invoice with Anson Goldsmiths at the top demand payment to a bank account based in the UAE, under an entirely different name - an individual called Qarib Zohaib Chishti - who is NOT a director of Anson Goldsmiths Ltd.
• Accounts filed to date have been Dormant

Atherton Corporate

• This is currently with the Insolvency Service, so should have ceased trading
• Called their number the other week and asked to speak to John Irvin
• Was told Irvine was not available, and I said I would email
• Had a call back a few hours later from someone (not John Irvin), but still offering Atherton's services

Aside from what these companies are actually doing, their setups and trading are totally shambolic - and illegal.

 

[ChrisCallaghan]

@Scam Baiter thank you kindly for your hard work and sharing your findings. I hope visitors to this thread find your research helpful.

Given the Insolvency Services recent and ongoing action against Atherton and connected parties, I'm sure they will already have Anson Goldsmith in their crosshairs, but have you considered reporting your findings to the Insolvency Service?

 

[Scam Baiter]

Hi Chris,

We hand over everything to the Authorities, but I think in this case it would be more prudent to find out why Anson Goldmith Ltd are asking people to send payments to accounts in Dubai which do not relate to the company whatsoever.

It could be that someone is using the AG name, although probably unlikely!

 

[UK Contractor Accountant]

Greetings all,

I am what some may call a Scam Baiter and have been playing with these guys, as well as Atherton Corporate.

A few things here:

Phoenix Company Rescue aka Anson Goldsmiths Ltd

• They appear to use several addresses in Manchester
• None of the phone numbers on their website work - ie 0808 164 0721
• They are sending 'legal documents' from a firm of solicitors who were dissolved in November 2024 (incorporated June 2023), and seemingly was never registered with the SRA.
• Said legal firm's phone number does not work either.
• They are sending invoices said to be VAT invoices on behalf of Anson Goldsmiths Ltd - but actually, display no VAT number or breakdown of VAT.
• The invoice with Anson Goldsmiths at the top demand payment to a bank account based in the UAE, under an entirely different name - an individual called Qarib Zohaib Chishti - who is NOT a director of Anson Goldsmiths Ltd.
• Accounts filed to date have been Dormant

Atherton Corporate

• This is currently with the Insolvency Service, so should have ceased trading
• Called their number the other week and asked to speak to John Irvin
• Was told Irvine was not available, and I said I would email
• Had a call back a few hours later from someone (not John Irvin), but still offering Atherton's services

Aside from what these companies are actually doing, their setups and trading are totally shambolic - and illegal.

Great Stuff - we all knew they were scammers. Just hope the OP wakes up and smells the coffee.

 

[Scam Baiter]

One thing I would add in addition to my previous message is Licensed Liquidators.....they can be pretty aggressive. In my experience some will call 2-3 times per day when they think they've got a potential 'sale'.... Rarely do they explore options such as Administration, they often push the Liquidation option, and are quick to quote their £5K fees.

 

[ChrisCallaghan]

One thing I would add in addition to my previous message is Licensed Liquidators.....they can be pretty aggressive. In my experience some will call 2-3 times per day when they think they've got a potential 'sale'.... Rarely do they explore options such as Administration, they often push the Liquidation option, and are quick to quote their £5K fees.

Sadly I've seen similar with some IP firms. I'll never understand this approach - all it does is alienate a potential client and harm the industry as a whole!