No Claims Bonus Lie and now had car crash

[LegworkUkLtd]

Stupidly I lied about my recent no claims bonus, stating i had five years, rather than the truth - I have none. Never had a crash before and no convictions to my licence, but its always been company cars, and by changing my job more than every 12 months, I never built up a history.

Now the unfortunate part is 3 weeks into my new policy with swinton, I had a crash which was my fault. The underwriters are asking for my ncb proof, and I know worry about the best thing to do.

1. cancel the policy say ive took the car off the road
2. say ive lost my ncb, possibily still cancel the policy but pay the difference
3. someone have a better idea

Quick responses would be very much appreciated - what a nightmare im having, learning a valuable lesson about lying here.

 

[DesignerNick]

Was there another car involved?

 

[robertt]

This reflects very badly on you and the company name you post under.

One thing to note is accidents dont just have the cost of a new car for you. There can be medical (whiplash etc) costs incurred in the future - can be up to 2 years in some cases! There are costs of the fixing of the other peoples cars and hire cars during that period.

There is an article about 'fronting' recently where a womans son died in a modified car and she is being chased up for the 6 fig sum due.

Depending on where and how the accident happened there can also be third party claims made against you.

Insurance is a trust based contract, and your insurance is invalid. That is therefore 'driving without insurance' so may result in a criminal conviction / FPN and/or driving ban and some points on your licence.

Why did you lie in the first place?

 

[DesignerNick]

This reflects very badly on you and the company name you post under.

I thought this too

 

[Michael Gerard]

Robertt has made some salient points - especially that the contract between you and the insurer is based on good faith and the policy will be void if you either fail to inform the company of any material fact (even if they fail to ask you the relevant question), or you have purposely misled them, like failing to disclose previous accidents.

Your 3 suggestions are niaive and any attempt to cover up your misdemeanor will only get you in further and possibly far greater trouble.

Now, I would come clean with the insurance company. State that in fact you have been driving for x years, albeit a company car, and that you [may have] thought that this woulld have earnt you 5 years no claims. That said, although the insurance company will attempt to avoid the claim (I have no doubt on that), your argument must be that this unintended declaration does not materially affect the policy, only the level of discount on the premium.

Worse case scenario is that you will not be covered due to the policy being void and you end up paying for the damage to the third party out of your own pocket. Whether that will be £500 or £5,000, it is a lesson learnt which could have been musch worse.

 

[robertt]

Oh, and when asking for quotes in the future on car insurance ensure you buy a nice pot of KY and bend over before ringing them

 

[steve23]

Looks like Charlie has given you some sound advice.

Very stupid thing to have done in the first place, but it's a rare person indeed who never puts a foot wrong or makes a bad decision.

Just make sure you learn from it and I hope it all works out for you.

All the best

Steve

 

[TheGuru2010]

Very silly thing to do in my eyes, with it been swinton the best advise will be to go with stating you thought it was correct as you had not claimed in the last 5 years, they will charge you more money but this is the best way.

If you come clean you may be done for driving without insurance, fronting a policy & also remeber that having a policy cancelled or a claim refused is a material fact so if this all comes to light you will need to declare this to new insurance providers.

Remeber swinton are only a broker so should be able to sort this provided you just state that you thoght it was years without a claim etc.

Did they ask you to sign a proposal form?

 

bit surprised that you were given insurance without proof of no claims.?

would seem a failing on the brokers part.?

No big deal if no one else involved in crash.

I would just cancell ,and get a new insurance if you get a new vehicle.

Insurance companies are hardly the bastions of honesty come just under lawyers and estate agents I believe.

Ooops I forgot politicians.

Earl

 

[TheGuru2010]

About 50% of the insurers at the moment dont request the no claims bonus untill there is a claim on there.

that is a good point if there is only yourself involved you wont have a problem,

 

[steve23]

I think its fairly common to get the insurance first and then have to produce proof of no claims.

That's what happens to me anyway - if you dont send in the proof within a set time (4 weeks i think) they charge you the full cost etc.

All the best

Steve

 

I think its fairly common to get the insurance first and then have to produce proof of no claims.

So the insurance companies are probably working outside some law or at least ethicaly questionable.?

Earl

 

[TheGuru2010]

So the insurance companies are probably working outside some law or at least ethicaly questionable.?

Earl

More than likely but i think it would be a start if the FSA had a good idea of what they were doing !

 

[LicensedToTrade]

So the insurance companies are probably working outside some law or at least ethicaly questionable.?

Earl

It is a common issue. There have been investigations into some insurers who hold databases of customers that they know have invalid insurance. These will be customers that they know have lied about certain aspects of their insurance application. The insurance company gets less money from the customer in terms of insurance premiums, but they know that they will NEVER have to pay out on that contact as it is invalid. Very sneaky, very underhand but becoming more and more common.

 

[TheGuru2010]

It is a common issue. There have been investigations into some insurers who hold databases of customers that they know have invalid insurance. These will be customers that they know have lied about certain aspects of their insurance application. The insurance company gets less money from the customer in terms of insurance premiums, but they know that they will NEVER have to pay out on that contact as it is invalid. Very sneaky, very underhand but becoming more and more common.

I would assume you are reffering to the CUE database?

http://www.cueuk.org/default.aspx you can see which insurers have acess

 

[LegworkUkLtd]

yes there is a 3rd party who have put accident claims in against my policy - so looking over the advice on here then do i plead that i was unsure of how ncb works, act dumb, and pay the higher premium?? if i do that could i later cancel the policy stating the car was off the road??

 

[TheGuru2010]

yes there is a 3rd party who have put accident claims in against my policy - so looking over the advice on here then do i plead that i was unsure of how ncb works, act dumb, and pay the higher premium?? if i do that could i later cancel the policy stating the car was off the road??

You could but you would still have to pay the premium after the claim.

Who is the acctual insurer?

 

[robertt]

yes there is a 3rd party who have put accident claims in against my policy - so looking over the advice on here then do i plead that i was unsure of how ncb works, act dumb, and pay the higher premium?? if i do that could i later cancel the policy stating the car was off the road??

&

learning a valuable lesson about lying here.

What was that lesson.... ?

 

[LegworkUkLtd]

would i have to pay the full year of premium, its highway insurance.

 

[LegworkUkLtd]

Dont cut the corners to save short term, it may cost you long term. Im only a young lad. Feel pretty stupid to be honest.

&



What was that lesson.... ?

 

[LicensedToTrade]

I would assume you are reffering to the CUE database?

http://www.cueuk.org/default.aspx you can see which insurers have acess

I wasn't referring to a particular database but thanks for that, makes some interesting reading!

 

[TheGuru2010]

would i have to pay the full year of premium, its highway insurance.

Yes you will have to pay the full year premium, the insurer will meet there part of the contact by paying out so they will expect you to meet yours with paying up.

 

[LicensedToTrade]

Dont cut the corners to save short term, it may cost you long term. Im only a young lad. Feel pretty stupid to be honest.

Judging by your false NCB of five years you must be at least 22 years old, so you are old enough to know better! Having said that, you are trying to resolve this now rather than burying your head in the sand which is the right way to approach this.

It is likely that as a result of this your next insurance will cost an absolute fortune!

 

[LegworkUkLtd]

oh dear,

the premium will be £3800 for the year, but i guess its better to do that rather than something else stupid.

 

&



What was that lesson.... ?

Self protection is the mark of an adult.

Earl

 

[TheGuru2010]

Just a question???

Are you sure the insurance company will not try to recover the cost for repairing the other car(if they even do) as the cover provided was based on a lie.
Otherwise everyone could do this.
Surely pleading stupidness is no defence???

They can only do this if the material fact would have made them not quote - as long as they cover himw ithout the NCB and it comes across as a genuine mistake he wont have a problem.

 

[TheGuru2010]

Please all bear in mind this is a silly thing to do, had he have killed someone things would be alot more complicated!!!!

 

[Mpg]

Ok I have done some research into this in the past. Not specifically concerning NCB but modifications etc.

Chances are the Insurance will still have to honour the 3rd party liability. They cannot just void/avoid a policy. If they can void/avoid the policy they can't back date it they can only cancel from when they are aware that there has been a breach. Thus you will still be covered at the time of the accident.

Believe it or not but whilst researching I came accross this little fact. if your car gets taken without consent (TWOC'd) and has an accident with a 3rd party then your insurance will pay out for the 3rd party.

There are only a few things that the insurance company can cancel/void/avoid policies. not declaring business use is one of them.


What this did bring up was as long as you have a min of 3rd party(RTA cover) then it looks like you can tell your insurance anything and they'll still have to cover 3rd party liabilties..

Again Non of the above is for business use

 

[TheGuru2010]

Ok I have done some research into this in the past. Not specifically concerning NCB but modifications etc.

Chances are the Insurance will still have to honour the 3rd party liability. They cannot just void/avoid a policy. If they can void/avoid the policy they can't back date it they can only cancel from when they are aware that there has been a breach. Thus you will still be covered at the time of the accident.

Believe it or not but whilst researching I came accross this little fact. if your car gets taken without consent (TWOC'd) and has an accident with a 3rd party then your insurance will pay out for the 3rd party.

There are only a few things that the insurance company can cancel/void/avoid policies. not declaring business use is one of them.


What this did bring up was as long as you have a min of 3rd party(RTA cover) then it looks like you can tell your insurance anything and they'll still have to cover 3rd party liabilties..

Again Non of the above is for business use

This is not true !!! please reaserch "ab initio insurance" in google & take a read, there is a goverment fund called the MIB which claiments can claim from if they are hit by a uninsured driver etc they meet a certain % of the claim cost - But this in turn is paid for via the honest people out there.

Dont ever think that a insurer wont void a policy its just not true!!

 

[TheGuru2010]

I would be really interested to know the outcome of this, im not saying your wrong as I really do not know, but I just find it amazing that they would still be expected to pay out
Im just going to ring direct line and tell them I forgot to mention my 39 years no claims bonus lol

Remeber this has to come across as a genuine mistake, as long as it is seen as a genuine mistake then the FSA/Ombudsmen would ask the insurer to pay the claim.

I have seen cases where the insured has failed to mention something & the insurer's have refused to pay out, the insured took it to the ombudsmen who rulled the insurer must pay out.

 

[LegworkUkLtd]

i thought the mib only kicked in when the fault driver was not insured.

 

[TheGuru2010]

i thought the mib only kicked in when the fault driver was not insured.

Yes thats correct but if your insurance becomes invalid then you become a unisured driver

 

[LegworkUkLtd]

lets hope all goes ok. thanks for everyones input.

 

[TheGuru2010]

Its not a genuine mistake though lol, but I see where your coming from.

100% agreed this is not a genuine mistake & to be fair he should face the appropiate action but that isnt for me to judge, just giving out what advise i can.

I come across these kind of clients alot & they are always hung out to dry!

 

[LegworkUkLtd]

just to clarify that last post sorry, if they decide my insurance was invalid, the mib pay out and i get done for no insurance... oh crap!!!

 

[TheGuru2010]

just to clarify that last post sorry, if they decide my insurance was invalid, the mib pay out and i get done for no insurance... oh crap!!!

There's no 100% that the MIB will always pay the 3rd party claim, they do check your history etc.

 

[Mpg]

This is not true !!! please reaserch "ab initio insurance" in google & take a read, there is a goverment fund called the MIB which claiments can claim from if they are hit by a uninsured driver etc they meet a certain % of the claim cost - But this in turn is paid for via the honest people out there.

Dont ever think that a insurer wont void a policy its just not true!!

I think you may have misread my post as I didnt say that insurance dont void policies. I was saying its very hard for them to do so apart from certain circumstances. Cancelling 3rd party liabilities is even harder.

I know all about the Mib I have used them in the past.(dodgy broker).


Mib isnt a government fund either

 

[robertt]

This is not true !!! please reaserch "ab initio insurance" in google & take a read, there is a goverment fund called the MIB which claiments can claim from if they are hit by a uninsured driver etc they meet a certain % of the claim cost - But this in turn is paid for via the honest people out there.

Dont ever think that a insurer wont void a policy its just not true!!

Yes - cases like this bump costs up for everyone else.

MIB can come after you to cover the costs though as well, so personal assets will cover it.

 

[TheGuru2010]

Yes - cases like this bump costs up for everyone else.

MIB can come after you to cover the costs though as well, so personal assets will cover it.

Totally Agreed !!! I think they should increase the fine to a minimum of £1000 for uninsured drivers - the fine for them not having insurance at the moment is less than the cost of the premium so it just doesnt bother them !!!

We could easily stamp out more of this none insurance

 

[Michael Gerard]

I think you may have misread my post as I didnt say that insurance dont void policies. I was saying its very hard for them to do so apart from certain circumstances. Cancelling 3rd party liabilities is even harder.

I know all about the Mib I have used them in the past.(dodgy broker).


Mib isnt a government fund either

The Guru is correct: 'Uberrima fides' - Utmost good faith

It is not hard for them at all to cancel a policy and void the insurance where the insured has not been truthful in procuring the cover, and hence I will be amazed if the insurer in these circumstances would make any payout to a third party. In all probability they will cancel the insurance and void the policy for breach of a material fact.