Newbie enquiring about renting a shop

[fairylights]

Hi everyone,

I have dabbled in some online selling for a short time but find it very mundane and being stuck at home not meeting people, is becoming tedious.

I worked full time all of my life in the emergency services and unfortunately lost my job in 2007 after suffering a stroke. Hence the online stuff to help pay mortgage etc.

I have an opportunity to lease a shop literally over the road from my house and have told estate agent this morning i am very interested to move forward with this.

Last week i asked him to email the lease/contract terms and conditions so i can peruse and get it checked out legally. I never heard anything so called the estate agents this morning and have been told there is no lease/contract as such, because the owner of the property has decided (due to other prospective persons backing out previously) that all of these costs are to be met by myself? The owner has suffered considerable losses over time (shop been empty for nearly 2yrs) because of this and these are the reasons for doing things differently this time around.

I have expressed concern and disagreement over this but have been told this is the only way the owner will now proceed. Estate agent has mentioned that I would get this sum back once I had signed on the dotted line and moved into the property, or the amount could be offset from the 3 months deposit.

Is this the normal procedure, as it seems very strange and has quite frankly put me off from moving forward.:|

I have never run a shop before in my life and I was very excited about it until this spanner has been thrown into the wheel

Thank you, I would be very grateful for any help

 

[herewegoagain.]

Hello Fairylights, It is usually normal for the ingoing tenant to pay the landlords legal fees - I would not pay any deposit for negotiations etc.

Do you really NEED a shop? what is the location like? what is the footfall like? it will be just another (probably big) expense.

If you are happy and making enough money, I would stay as you are...

I am thinking of going online only in the new year as my costs would be vastly reduced...

If you do go ahead, try and get the premises on a monthly licence, as being tied in for 3 or 5 years (this day and age) in a lease is very binding in these unpredictable times !!

Whatever you do, dont offer the full price - it is a renters market out there - there are a hell of a lot of empty shops... There is probably a good reason why it has been empty for 2 years...

I would take professional advice...

all the best


PS: another thing about a shop - a lot of people (in my opinion) dont think of is how much if a 'tie' it can be - if you are running the shop on your own, what happenes if you need childcare? hospital appointments? you will be stuck there 45 hours a week minimum (say over 6 days....)

I am not being negative, just giving the realities...

 

[fairylights]

Do you really NEED a shop? what is the location like? what is the footfall like? it will be just another (probably big) expense.

If you are happy and making enough money, I would stay as you are...

I am thinking of going online only in the new year as my costs would be vastly reduced...

If you do go ahead, try and get the premises on a monthly licence, as being tied in for 3 or 5 years (this day and age) in a lease is very binding in these unpredictable times !!

Whatever you do, dont offer the full price - it is a renters market out there - there are a hell of a lot of empty shops... There is probably a good reason why it has been empty for 2 years...

I would take professional advice...

all the best


PS: another thing about a shop - a lot of people (in my opinion) dont think of is how much if a 'tie' it can be - if you are running the shop on your own, what happenes if you need childcare? hospital appointments? you will be stuck there 45 hours a week minimum (say over 6 days....)

I am not being negative, just giving the realities...

Many thanks for your reply, yes the location is right in the heart of the village with plenty of shoppers, opposite a busy supermarket etc. I volunteer at the charity shop (also opposite me) and they make a 6 figure annual figure. I know that's different because all of their stock is donated but that gives you some idea of the footfall.

Lots to think about but I take on board what you say about costs when online selling wouldn't be anyway near the outlay etc.

Thank you, really appreciate your thoughts and will give it much more thought.

 

[herewegoagain.]

Youre welcome, the locations sounds good, have you done a foot-fall count?
What do you sell BTW? is there any local competition?

I would say 'careful' with being a supermarket so close....

One thing I have noticed over time, even though some of my products are cheaper than in the supermarket near me, all I see (all day long) is people blinkered wandering around with Sainsbury's carrier bags......

 

[fairylights]

No, not counted footfall, just go by what charity shops tell me and its a very small village area with only a few shops. I would be selling nail art accessories, craft supplies, gift wrapping paper etc and some jewellery.

No-one in the village sells wrapping paper or haberdashery type items, wool etc so i think it would sell well. My only concern is this would take every scrap of savings so that worries me

My son is giving me lots of grief about it as he says its a stupid idea so not easy times lol!

 

[sarky]

Landlords always try to get tenants to be responsible for the landlords' legal fees. The best approach is to say no.

You have no control over the landlord's solicitors - do you think they'll go easy on the fees? Of course not. They'll think it's jam today and jam tomorrow.

 

[herewegoagain.]

No, not counted footfall, just go by what charity shops tell me and its a very small village area with only a few shops. I would be selling nail art accessories, craft supplies, gift wrapping paper etc and some jewellery.

No-one in the village sells wrapping paper or haberdashery type items, wool etc so i think it would sell well. My only concern is this would take every scrap of savings so that worries me

My son is giving me lots of grief about it as he says its a stupid idea so not easy times lol!

mmmmm.... IMHO I think the shop could have 'legs'...if it all adds up financially...

You really need to do a proper footfall count - if youre not sure how to do this, send me a private message - glad to help...

The good thing is this type of shop is expandable, for example, you could add hand made greetings cards, even (for example) rent a desk and a chair out as a full on nail bar..... - that would help with costs and income... !!

I would not put all of your savings in, you need to keep some as a contingency,

A little problem I could see would be the identity of the shop - as it would be selling several things,

A less expensive way to test the water to see demand would be a market stall..... thoughts??

regards Dave

 

[fairylights]

mmmmm.... IMHO I think the shop could have 'legs'...if it all adds up financially...

You really need to do a proper footfall count - if youre not sure how to do this, send me a private message - glad to help...

The good thing is this type of shop is expandable, for example, you could add hand made greetings cards, even (for example) rent a desk and a chair out as a full on nail bar..... - that would help with costs and income... !!

I would not put all of your savings in, you need to keep some as a contingency,

A little problem I could see would be the identity of the shop - as it would be selling several things,

A less expensive way to test the water to see demand would be a market stall..... thoughts??

regards Dave

Thank you Dave,

Yes I did think of market stall but thought the takings would be less as wouldn't be able to charge the market price? ...hmmm, not sure. Also, its hard work on your own and I don't think I would be able to do all the heavy lugging to and from the car.

I think the shop would do very well personally as the village needs a bit of a boost and hopefully bring some more shoppers in! The only problem is, last week Tesco opened up one of their mini stores a mile up the road so this has taken some of the footfall away. But in all honesty, we have a doctors surgery and very busy chemist here so there will always be people in the vicinity.

I had an email from the estate agents this morning saying

You are not being asked to pay for the legal fees. You are asked to provide for cover against the landlords costs, in the event that you change your mind! It is common for tenants to change their mind, and landlords having to pay costs because of their fickle attitude. In this case, the elderly landlord regards their cash as carefully as you, so we have a stalemate.

Wasn't very impressed with him suggesting I am fickle but do think he could have worded slightly more professionally..lol!

What do you think? I am opening this on a shoe string so not happy about having to initially find cover for the fees, even though I shall allegedly get them back!

 

[sarky]

Personally I think it's a negotiating tactic. Letting his property has an expense involved. If he doesn't want the expense perhaps he's prefer not to let the property.

Also, I'd suggest not agreeing to 'fully repairing and insuring' leases that are common. It's not fair to expect tenants to repair property that might not have been maintained.

This happened to me: the agent said 'the roof's been done recently, so no worries'. Me: 'what about everything else, is that OK?' Agent: 'well you'd need to get a surveyor to assess that'. Me: 'bye'.

 

[Christine Hough]

Maybe the previous prospective tenants were 'fickle' because the landlord was intransigent/unreasonable?

If the tenants want a shop, and the landlord wants to rent then there should be a meeting ground. That previous possibilities have fizzled out is a tad worrying.

 

[herewegoagain.]

Thank you Dave,

Yes I did think of market stall but thought the takings would be less as wouldn't be able to charge the market price? ...hmmm, not sure. Also, its hard work on your own and I don't think I would be able to do all the heavy lugging to and from the car.

I think the shop would do very well personally as the village needs a bit of a boost and hopefully bring some more shoppers in! The only problem is, last week Tesco opened up one of their mini stores a mile up the road so this has taken some of the footfall away. But in all honesty, we have a doctors surgery and very busy chemist here so there will always be people in the vicinity.

I had an email from the estate agents this morning saying

You are not being asked to pay for the legal fees. You are asked to provide for cover against the landlords costs, in the event that you change your mind! It is common for tenants to change their mind, and landlords having to pay costs because of their fickle attitude. In this case, the elderly landlord regards their cash as carefully as you, so we have a stalemate.

Wasn't very impressed with him suggesting I am fickle but do think he could have worded slightly more professionally..lol!

What do you think? I am opening this on a shoe string so not happy about having to initially find cover for the fees, even though I shall allegedly get them back!

It is a worry about the Tesco opening further up the road... It is very warming that you want to add to the community, with the opening of a shop - if it was me (after that email from the agents) I would tell them where to get off !!!

A person has a right to change their mind !! - you are not messing the agent about... and if the agent/landlord are like this now - what are they going to be like when you are in the shop?? not being negative, but please be careful...

There are plenty of empty shops out there... I know it sounds hard, but you can locate your business anywhere, the landlord is the one stuck with the empty shop !!

Maybe a specialist craft market would be the trick - it is unfortunate but the lifting part comes with the territory mate !!

With Christmas not too far off - it would be an ideal time to test demand... as long as your prices arent over the top, you can charge a fair price...

kind regards Dave

 

[fairylights]

Personally I think it's a negotiating tactic. Letting his property has an expense involved. If he doesn't want the expense perhaps he's prefer not to let the property.

Also, I'd suggest not agreeing to 'fully repairing and insuring' leases that are common. It's not fair to expect tenants to repair property that might not have been maintained.

This happened to me: the agent said 'the roof's been done recently, so no worries'. Me: 'what about everything else, is that OK?' Agent: 'well you'd need to get a surveyor to assess that'. Me: 'bye'.

Thanks sarky,

Yes i agree, the shop sits below 2 flats so i hope they wouldnt expect the shop tenant to be responsible for the 'building' as such. The wording on the lease term states that they are? Unfair i think!
The letterbox is broken, there is no phone line connected and the alarm is also broken! Landlord won't fix any of this so i think he wants his bread with lots of jam as you previously mentioned!

Not happy with the estate agents attitude as speaks to me as if he is dealing with a 'silly girl' ...hmmmm! I am 55 and ex law bod!

 

[fairylights]

Maybe the previous prospective tenants were 'fickle' because the landlord was intransigent/unreasonable?

If the tenants want a shop, and the landlord wants to rent then there should be a meeting ground. That previous possibilities have fizzled out is a tad worrying.

Thanks Christine,

Yes, you they were my thoughts exactly! The estate agent doesn't help as he is quite aloof and i don't think he has his clients best interests at heart ...i.e. landlord. The shop rent is clearly going to be his nest egg so you would think he would prefer to be getting some money per month, rather than paying for an empty shop?

I have told the estate agent that he cannot expect me to put a some of £800 on the solicitors account, just in case i back out. when I havn't seen the lease yet, as they state there isn't one? The one i have been sent is purely a basis of what it 'might' contain apparently!!

 

[fairylights]

It is a worry about the Tesco opening further up the road... It is very warming that you want to add to the community, with the opening of a shop - if it was me (after that email from the agents) I would tell them where to get off !!!

A person has a right to change their mind !! - you are not messing the agent about... and if the agent/landlord are like this now - what are they going to be like when you are in the shop?? not being negative, but please be careful...

There are plenty of empty shops out there... I know it sounds hard, but you can locate your business anywhere, the landlord is the one stuck with the empty shop !!

Maybe a specialist craft market would be the trick - it is unfortunate but the lifting part comes with the territory mate !!

With Christmas not too far off - it would be an ideal time to test demand... as long as your prices arent over the top, you can charge a fair price...

kind regards Dave

Thanks Dave,

I shall look around for another shop perhaps as I havn't been very happy with attitude of agents....he is very good at 'not' giving me a direct answer, but that's goes with the territory i guess. As you say, probably best in the long run if they aren't being very helpful before i move in! There clearly are some problems if its been empty so long.

Shall give the market angle a serious think, i wasn't being a lazy mare with the lifting (honest..lol!) just can't do it anymore.

Shame as i honestly think i could give this village a boost but perhaps something/somewhere else will become available?

 

[VSpy1]

As a thought, why cant you download a free commercial lease and agree a rent over a couple of months? That way you get to test the market in the shop you might want for a longer term...

 

[Christine Hough]

Because even for a two month stay it sounds as if Fairylight would have to invest quite a lot improving the building.

"The letterbox is broken, there is no phone line connected and the alarm is also broken! Landlord won't fix any of this "

not to mention signage, racking, till etc.
I would not try to make something work if my gut instinct was not to trust the landlord. Even if it is near home. It is a renters market. Also look very objectively at location, footfall and the sort of people who will buy from you.

 

[fairylights]

Because even for a two month stay it sounds as if Fairylight would have to invest quite a lot improving the building.

"The letterbox is broken, there is no phone line connected and the alarm is also broken! Landlord won't fix any of this "

not to mention signage, racking, till etc.
I would not try to make something work if my gut instinct was not to trust the landlord. Even if it is near home. It is a renters market. Also look very objectively at location, footfall and the sort of people who will buy from you.

The landlord did agree to the first 3 months free, i initially offered half of the annual rent for the 1st year to help with start up. The terms were then complicated a couple of days ago, when i was told i would need to put down 3months rent deposit as well, (trust issue apparently) and now of course, they also want me to put down the other amount.

I have emailed the agents this pm to say they and/or the landlord, is making too many stipulations and i had therefore backed out. Seems odd to me as the shop is up for sale or rent but when i initially enquired about the price, agent wouldn't discuss it, just said owner would rather rent?!!

 

[vivid steve]

If you do decide to go for it, and the landlord will only accept a fully repairing and insuring lease. Get a set of photo's lodged with the lease that show the condition of the building before you move in.

A classic Landlord tactic, is to with hold a tenants deposit for dilapidation's, when you move out. When the previous tenant was also charged but the landlord did not complete the schedule of works.

On the lighter side, the only way to make a small fortune from retail, is start with a large one!

Good luck...
Steve

 

[isurveyor]

Hi, What about speaking to the charity shop and asking them if you can have a little bit of their retail space? Offer to give them a percentage of what you sell or indeed a fee for some of the space in the shop. You could agree to work in the hsop and assist with what they do, or pay a little more and have them sell your things. it is a stop gap to see how things would go in the physical retail sector. It ewill not tie you in to a long deal and cost should be relatively low. I would try and work up to the shop rather than jump in just now. A lease can be a costly experience and it is not just the rent. You will also have consider business rates, insurance, utilities, repairs etc. They are also tend to be long term agreements, so you are tied in to these costs for a long time. Speak to the charity shopp, or another shop in the village and try and come to a small licence agreement. Just a thought, good luck.