New to business......any advice on a mobile fresh fish van/trailer?

[finglas]

Hi All,

first post on here so I hope it finds you all well.

I am 27 and currently looking at setting up a little business. I still stay at home so I feel I have some safety in that sense and it makes me think that the time to try something like a small business may never be better, at least in that regard. I have saved some money and I am still currently working but would like to put some of the savings to good use.

I stay in a town in Scotland and as far as I'm aware there is no fish mongers across the town, plus there is more than 70k people where I stay. There is one fish van (more of a trailer) that operates wed/thurs/friday and it seems to do well. I initially questioned why there was none, and the I suppose the basic answer is that the supermarkets swallowed them up....however.....I feel there is some amount of a trend towards people wanting to buy fresh produce that is most likely of better quality than you can get in a super market.

I'm not proposing this idea as a way of myself making a fortune but more as a way of gaining experience and confidence in business. The only issue is, I have no experience of selling fish. My plan was to get a trailer (I have a suitable car) and then get the necessary permits and try and buy the fish wholesale from a market in Glasgow and sell it on from the trailer/van.

I know I'm not re-inventing the wheel but I am hoping it would allow me to potentially make a bit of money and get myself some confidence and business experience.

Does any one have any words of warning or advice or even encouragement?

best wishes to you all,

jamie

 

[ecommerce84]

Are you single? Because everyone I’ve ever met that works in fish usually has a distinct odour most of the time.

May not be so bad if you have a loving partner, but if you’re out on the pull on a Saturday night after a day selling fish, you may find yourself going home alone!

On the business side of things - is this other van in the town in which you’d like to trade? Would there be enough business for you both?

We have one in our town that comes on a Wednesday and a Saturday - there isn’t enough trade for anymore days and a second seller would likely just split the existing sales and neither would end up making any money.

It may also be that who ever assigns the pitches (be if council or local market operator) would not allow a second fish trader so I’d check that early on if you do decide to proceed.

Edit: Or (on re-reading), are you planning on doing it in a different town to which you stay that has the existing fish trailer?

 

[finglas]

Thank you Ecommerce. I am single but I'm not too worried about the smell, hopefully my charm can outweight that......haha

Anyway yes the van is in the same town but the location I was thinking of is about 5 miles away and the town has at least 70k people in it, so when I say town it is still large!

Thank you again,

Jamie

 

[Mr D]

Learn to prepare the fish. Learn to sell the fish.

Some people do not mind taking a whole fish and preparing it for cooking. Just messy and takes time.
People may well want prepared fish steaks, marinated salmon, filleted fish etc. Stuff they can get at the supermarket or fishmonger.

Stuff that you may struggle to find at a decent price but could learn to do.

And you would need to dispose of the organic waste.

Perhaps have a van - and cover 6 towns a week.

Just expect to get scars, have decent washing facilities and a good first aid kit.

 

[finglas]

Thanks Mr D. I've noticed the other chap here in town that sells fish he works three days a week but I don't think he prepares the fish. I assumed he bought it ready filleted at the market.

I feel confident I could learn to process the fish without too much of an issue. I have rod and line fished since before I remember so I am fairly comfortable gutting and filleting. This has no bearing on my idea of a fish van, more just referencing it to let you know I'm not completely handless or squeamish!

Thank you again,

Jamie

 

[Mitch3473]

I think it's a great idea but I'll eat most things that swim. Strangely, for an island surrounded by rich waters we dont eat as much as maybe we should. As an ex chef in a previous life you can live or die buy your waste, learn how to manage your stock and learn how to fillet and prepare fish, learn how to maximise the fishes potential, not just fillets but fish cakes, deep fried fish skins, fish cheeks, make fish stock and freeze it, have you tried to get hold of it, you cant ?????, present your fish well and if you can prepare it in front of your customers, they'll love it and probably buy more. Upsell fish based products, parsley, lemons, sauces, pickled/dried/salted fish, expand your range when you can. But most importantly get good suppliers/fishermen to supply you, get them fresh off the boat if possible and let your customers know. And charge a premium for a premium product.
Good luck.

 

[finglas]

I think it's a great idea but I'll eat most things that swim. Strangely, for an island surrounded by rich waters we dont eat as much as maybe we should. As an ex chef in a previous life you can live or die buy your waste, learn how to manage your stock and learn how to fillet and prepare fish, learn how to maximise the fishes potential, not just fillets but fish cakes, deep fried fish skins, fish cheeks, make fish stock and freeze it, have you tried to get hold of it, you cant ?????, present your fish well and if you can prepare it in front of your customers, they'll love it and probably buy more. Upsell fish based products, parsley, lemons, sauces, pickled/dried/salted fish, expand your range when you can. But most importantly get good suppliers/fishermen to supply you, get them fresh off the boat if possible and let your customers know. And charge a premium for a premium product.
Good luck.

Thank you Mitch, I appreciate the encouragement. That sounds like great advice too. I suppose all they avenues are areas I could grow into in a sense, as I find my feet just trying to do the basics initially. As you say, getting the best fish possible and charging a premium for a premium product. What I need to find out is if I can get a hold of really good fish at a market. I'm just outside of Glasgow so I would be heading in there to buy and I do know there is a few markets in there so fingers crossed it's possible to get good stuff.

Thank you again,

Jamie

 

[Mark T Jones]

Quick rundown of some pros & cons:

Pros:

• Sainsburys have announced they will be shutting their fresh produce counters - other supermarkets are sure to follow. This is a huge opportunity.
• Fish is percieved as a healthier option than meat (don't worry about the debate, just run with it) - so as a broader nation there is a move towards favouring fish over meat. (not sure healthy eating applies in Scotland?)

Cons:

• Early starts - 6.00 AM at market.
• Selecting the right stock.
• Storing it.
• Preparing it.
• Compared to mass-produced meat 'equivalents' fish is very expensive. See what fishermen do & it's easy to see why; but that doesn't necessarily translate over the counter. Scots aren't famously flash with the cash.
• The smell.

Random fact:

A big portion of Europe's Langoustines are landed in Scotland. 90% are then exported to places like Spain & France, so Brits can go on holiday & come home raving about how wonderful the 'local' seafood was.

 

[Ian J]

In and around my town there are two garden centres that have trailers selling meat and fish

 

[GraemeL]

Cons:

• Early starts - 6.00 AM at market.
• Selecting the right stock.
• Storing it.
• Preparing it.
• Compared to mass-produced meat 'equivalents' fish is very expensive. See what fishermen do & it's easy to see why; but that doesn't necessarily translate over the counter. Scots aren't famously flash with the cash.
• The smell..

One more, the wasteage. Which can sink all profits.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

There is a documentary about Peterhead fishing boats that shows a guy who sells fish via his van, he buys on the market and basically does a fixed round each day with fish landed that day, a bit like ice cream salesmen. gets regular customers and also does restaurants etc

Think you would need a chilled transit or trailer to keep ice which keeps the fish fresh

Possibly take a long time building up customers unless heavy marketed first

Doubt you would need licence apart from street trader type as not in a fixed location for more than a few min

 

[pentel]

It might be a good idea to get a job in a fishmongers / on a fish counter so that you get some experience before going your own way. That way you get paid to learn. If you go straight into it with no experience then you will be paying for your own trial and error lessons with no guidance.

 

[Alison Moore]

Seems a great time to do it, so many people are relying on home deliveries rather than visiting supermarkets, I would have thought there would be quite a demand for fresh fish van that (almost) comes to your door. A lot of people are getting on board with the whole 'buy local and 'buy British' ethos too, so if a lot of the fish are locally caught then it's worth really promoting that.

My only concern is... we used to live in a coastal town, with independent fishing boats, but the only people I knew who sold fish outside of the fishmongers were some of the fishermen themselves. They'd catch the fish, trade in the area for a day or so, then go back out catching some more, so whether there's a trade for someone outside of the industry, I'm not sure.

 

[Ian J]

It might be a good idea to get a job in a fishmongers

Where do you find one of them nowadays

 

[GraemeL]

@Ian J Where I live! Market stall on Sat and Tue (as used by Mr J Oliver) and also a glass front shop that is open 5 days a week, having started up about 2 years ago. It's really fresh produce and the proprieter is an ex chef so he advises on cooking; also sells fabulous Xmas seafood platters, smokes his own trout and gives free delivery without minimum order. It does require effort!

 

[Gordon - Commercial Finance]

(not sure healthy eating applies in Scotland?)

Oi! What's that supposed to mean!??

 

[finglas]

Thanks everyone, really appreciate the helpful responses.

I admit that lacking in knowledge I would need to familiarise myself with procedures and the best way to keep things refrigerated and fresh. Experiences in a fish mongers wouldn't be all that easy because I don't have many of them too nearby. Certainly none in my town of 70k people but there are some in Glasgow.

I do find myself that it is fairly hard to get fresh decent fish these days. The stuff from the supermarkets doesn't compare really to the quality I have had from fish mongers in Glasgow. Issue for me there Is the trip to buy it in Glasgow is quite substantial. As I said there is a fish van a few miles away but he seems loose on his business plan... he is meant to be there wed/thus/fri and yet today when I visited, he wasn't there and last Time I went on a friday he was all but sold out.

Anyway I definitely appreciate I have a lot of unknowns and I know I would probably benefit from the knowledge gained through a job in the field but to be honest I'm just raring to get going with a business and im trying to find some ideas!

Thank you again ,


Jamie

 

[Mitch3473]

Quick rundown of some pros & cons:

Pros:

• Sainsburys have announced they will be shutting their fresh produce counters - other supermarkets are sure to follow. This is a huge opportunity.
• Fish is percieved as a healthier option than meat (don't worry about the debate, just run with it) - so as a broader nation there is a move towards favouring fish over meat. (not sure healthy eating applies in Scotland?)

Cons:

• Early starts - 6.00 AM at market.
• Selecting the right stock.
• Storing it.
• Preparing it.
• Compared to mass-produced meat 'equivalents' fish is very expensive. See what fishermen do & it's easy to see why; but that doesn't necessarily translate over the counter. Scots aren't famously flash with the cash.
• The smell.

Random fact:

A big portion of Europe's Langoustines are landed in Scotland. 90% are then exported to places like Spain & France, so Brits can go on holiday & come home raving about how wonderful the 'local' seafood was.

Not forgetting lobsters and crabs, huge amounts transported live in aerated tanks.

 

[Ian J]

I do find myself that it is fairly hard to get fresh decent fish these days. The stuff from the supermarkets doesn't compare really to the quality I have had from fish mongers in Glasgow.

Much depends on where you live. I lived in the North East for a number of years and used to pop down to North Shields Fish Quay if I wanted fish and we moved from there to Torquay with Brixham Harbour on our doorstep. We moved to the Midlands just over 20 years ago and are as far from the sea as it's possible to get which reflects on the freshness of the fish that's available.

A few years ago we were on holiday in Spain and bought a whole hake from the supermarket which tasted delicious. When we got back I bought a small hake from Sainsbury and it didn't taste anything like the one that we had eaten in Spain and I assume that the difference was the lack of freshness

 

[Financial-Modeller]

...Issue for me there Is the trip to buy it in Glasgow is quite substantial...

Not sure of your local Geography, but can you buy direct from the fishermen with a shorter journey than going to the market?

 

[Socio South West]

Where I live on the East Devon/West Dorset coast the fishermen have recently become much more creative with their marketing instead of blindly selling either to wholesalers or sending van loads off to Brixham market.
Several have got together and sell off the back of vans in various car parks and other meeting places, and supply direct to local fish shops who, with a few less middle men in the chain, offer much fresher fish at very competitive prices.

As @Mark T Jones points out, the apparent demise of the supermarket fish counters is going to offer opportunities for anyone who can get a hold in the market and @finglas deserves encouragement.

However, I would recommend that he learns how to prepare all cuts of all fish - as much as there are those that like to have a whole fish, I believe they are in a minority - and if customers from supermarket counters are added to the customer base, they will certainly be looking for prepared fish.
So when your local scallop diver arrives on your doorstep at 8pm at night with 60 dozen scallops straight from the sea.... be prepared!

 

[finglas]

Thank you again. I think the fish from the market is very likely better than that which Is available in supermarkets. I intend on going to the market and seeing what i can buy to do a taste test and see if it really is a premium product.

I suppose it wouldn't be impossible for me to buy straight from the fishermen but I've no idea where I'd start there to be honest, maybe if I got into the market and established some connections then they lines of communication may become more apparent.

I appreciate all your thoughts!

Jamie

 

[Mitch3473]

You could start by waiting on the quay when they return, get talking, tell them your plans, they may have some thoughts and ideas, who knows but you'll never find out until you talk.....

 

[simon field]

^^^ That.

 

[Joseph K]

Hi Jamie, my advice is learn the trade and build up a good reputation on how you sell your fish. Best wishes to you too.

 

[finglas]

Thanks mitch and simon, I'm not even sure yet where the fish is brought in but I'm sure I could find out without too much difficulty. I will investigate. Thank you!

Joseph, thanks for the advice and the kind words. I appreciate it. Best wishes to you.

Jamie

 

[Mitch3473]

Thanks mitch and simon, I'm not even sure yet where the fish is brought in but I'm sure I could find out without too much difficulty. I will investigate. Thank you!

Joseph, thanks for the advice and the kind words. I appreciate it. Best wishes to you.

Jamie

Try all the local coastal ports, be they towns or villages. Even the small coastal villages will have a couple of proffesional boats, maybe a few part timers, they all catch fish and shell fish. For eg. We have 2 tiny fishing villages near our holiday rental in Pembrokeshire and 2 of the guys that fish out of them sell nothing but dressed crabs they catch, from their garages. The fishmonger I use even has the boats names in front of the fish just to add that personnal touch. It works....

 

[finglas]

Thanks again Mitch, that sounds excellent. I have plenty to research now. Hopefully i can try and make some progress soon. I have been working reduced hours because of covid so I'm trying to use my spare time to try and do something productive!

Jamie

 

[Scalloway]

The UK has a list of designated ports where fish can be landed.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/designated-ports/list-of-designated-ports

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Trouble is you need a regular supply which means the fish markets, small local guys don't go out every day and dont have a good selection of fish types, the markets always have fish with demand making the prices

 

[bodgitt&scarperLTD]

The UK has a list of designated ports where fish can be landed.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/designated-ports/list-of-designated-ports

That must be for big vessels with massive quota? I know three working beaches locally on the south coast- the fishermen land their catches in full view so I doubt they're smuggling.

 

[Scalloway]

Designated ports are for catches over 100kg of deep sea species. I live in Scotland where the vast majority of fishing boats are of a size that can carry far more than that. The small boats used in the South of England would not cope with the North Sea but are ideal for the local industry.

 

[Mark T Jones]

Oi! What's that supposed to mean!??

Oh dear. I must have been hacked

 

[Scottishgifts4u]

We’ve got a fish van in our town (about 10k pop). It comes once a week so presumably does elsewhere the rest of the week.

We used him for a while but to be honest it was working out way too expensive although the product was good.

You’ll need to build up a client base and the only sure way to do that is to go knock on doors. Are you up for that?

 

[Mitch3473]

Is the OP going to park up on a car park or similar or actually drive round the roads honking his horn as the ice cream vans do.....