New Formal Dress Code

[logongra]

I really only have a small issue but I would really appreciate any views you have.

I work in retail though I work in a back administration office and we are not public facing. Three years ago our company changed its dress code policy for office staff to business casual. However they have now decided they want to return to formal dress they have issued a new formal dress code which for me as a male member of staff, it will mostly mean a change from wearing a short sleeved polo type shirt to wearing a long sleeved collared shirt and a tie. I find this a little disappointing. It has not been said officially, though we are sure that the change back to a formal dress code has come about due to some staff taking advantage of the "business casual" dress policy that was allowed. Although I much preferred the casual dress, I don’t really have a great problem with the change back to formal dress.

When we previously had a formal dress code, our manager then was never over strict about it, however the manager we now have has told us that the new dress code will be strictly enforced at all times, and she will be formally disciplining any member of staff if they attend work inappropriately dressed in anything outside of the dress code.

I think that she is a very good young manager, she is easy to get on with and likeable, though she tends to go by the rule and she is in favour of the return to a formal dress code.

To me it just seems rather extreme to say she will formally discipline members of staff for any non-compliance, I thought that in the first instance, just a talking-to with an individual member of staff would be enough. When I asked about that, she stated that we have just been given the talking-to!

I do realise that she may well have been told by higher management that she needs to inform us that the formal dress code is going to be strictly enforced and that any staff not fully complying will be disciplined. Though I still feel that she could use some discretion and in any first instance, just speak to any individual who is seen to be not complying.

Not all of my colleagues see it the way I do, some feel that this is the best way for our manager to ensure the dress standard is maintained. Some also feel that back office staff should still be required to dress in the same way as the staff who are public facing so they are in favour a return to a formal dress code.

I would just like to hear some opinions really, like do you feel that my manager could show some discretion at first, or is she right to say that she will formally discipline any staff who are seen not complying with the formal dress code?

 

[The Byre]

Top hat, white tie and tails is the answer - ask your idiot manager if that is formal enough for her!

 

[logongra]

I take it that you feel she's got it wrong then!

 

[Chris Ashdown]

The company has seen the dress in action before and now wants to smarten it up a bit and has discussed it with all staff

What more do you want the manager to do give you maybe three months to apply the rule

I cannot see any problem in that the manager following the companies rules and don't understand where our German friend finds fault with her doing her job

 

[logongra]

No Chris, I don't expect our manager to give three months notice before applying the rule, I just feel that to go straight to a formal discipline procedure seems very strict without first just having a quiet word with a member of staff who is seen inappropriately dressed. However I appreciate you giving your honest view.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

If they were bringing in a new procedure on the epos I could see your problem as mistakes could be made whilst learning , but a dress code is so simple there is no excuse apart from maybe a house fire

 

[logongra]

I accept that Chis, I will certainly not intentionally disobey any dress code rules. However I can see one or two situations where a new dress code could be broken unintentionally, such as a male employee forgets to put his tie on - remember we haven't needed to wear a tie for the past three years. Do you feel that our manger would be justified if she disciplined him for that?

 

[STDFR33]

If a dress code has been conveyed to staff, and it is clear what is and isn't allowed, only the stupid or defiant will 'forget'.

 

[logongra]

OK Accountancy Lab, I accept that. Though if you were our manager, what would you do in a situation like I have mentioned in my reply to Chris.

 

[STDFR33]

OK Accountancy Lab, I accept that. Though if you were our manager, what would you do in a situation like I have mentioned in my reply to Chris.

The sensible thing to do would be to have a quiet word.

 

[logongra]

Yes I agree with you there. Still it might be a good idea to keep a spare tie in my desk drawer rather than put this to the test!

 

[Mr D]

Perhaps a quiet word, one on one, about the ability to go over the top on disciplining staff. Point out first that you will comply just that you feel straight to disciplinary will be resented by staff.
Do not raise the issue publicly, be discreet.

Managers can make mistakes, they can be over rigid with rules but sometimes they get to enforce what they are told to.

 

[logongra]

I think that's good advice Mr D. My manager could well have just put over to us what she was told to by her own management. Thank you.

 

[obscure]

To me it just seems rather extreme to say she will formally discipline members of staff for any non-compliance, I thought that in the first instance, just a talking-to with an individual member of staff would be enough. When I asked about that, she stated that we have just been given the talking-to!

If the talking to you have all just received doesn't work, what would be the point of doing it again? It clearly wouldn't be working with the individual who 'forgot' to get dressed so firmer action is needed.

 

[soundengineeruk]

Three years ago our company changed its dress code policy for office staff to business casual.

Would this not fall under implied contract term.. ?

 

[paulears]

If a manager has to implement procedures that will not be welcome, it's a part of their job, and often not their ideal, either. The worst thing is a member of staf who is clearly going to be resistive, abrasive and potentially a stirrer. The manager clearly would prefer to have flexibility and not a rigid policy. However, what option do they have when a staff member says no. They must implement their disciplinary process, they are unable to do anything else. The mistake was to oppose it before any incidents happened. You've put yourself in the corner as a possible problem. It's such a pointless quest, which you cannot win, and trying to alienates you. Soundengineeruk probably lives in black clothes, probably, if under 40 in shorts too. I've seen sound and lighting people, quite uptight when some clients have no shorts rules. I've even seen an occasional one refuse, and on the next contact with that company been nowhere to be seen. I don't see shirt and done up tie as a uniform, just a dress code that is appropriate to the needs of the business. The manager has a role to do. Make their life difficult and it always backfires.

 

[soundengineeruk]

Soundengineeruk probably lives in black clothes, probably, if under 40 in shorts too. I've seen sound and lighting people, quite uptight when some clients have no shorts rules

Old career long time ago. Last decade and half I have had to change my wardrobe to just more than black.

If a manager has to implement procedures that will not be welcome, it's a part of their job, and often not their ideal, either.

I thought it was a policy change not a procedure change...

A employee could refuse to comply with the change in policy..

Not following either procedure or policy could mean an employee face discipline action for it.. however, does not mean the employer Is right.

something I found on thompsons.law.co.uk

It is perfectly legitimate for employers to tell their employees to dress in a certain way at work. However, if they dismiss someone for not complying with the code, the employee may be able to bring a claim against them.

Whatever code they introduce, employers need to be consistent in their approach and have a good reason for imposing it – perhaps because their employee has contact with the public. Or for health and safety reasons.

 

[DontAsk]

However I can see one or two situations where a new dress code could be broken unintentionally, such as a male employee forgets to put his tie on -

Keep a spare one in a desk drawer, along with a shaver and anything else you need to comply. It really is a no brainer.

 

[logongra]

That's a good idea, but keeping a spare tie might not be enough!.
At another staff meeting today, it was put to my manager (not by me) that someone could possibly break the dress code unintentionally such as a male member of staff forgets to put their tie on. Her answer was that whilst she can accept that possibility, she would have no way of knowing what is intentional and what is not.

She reiterated that under the current dress code, male staff can wear short sleeved polo type shirts though this will be replaced by a long sleeved formal collared shirt and a tie at all times, so If they are seen dressed outside of the new dress code i.e. not wearing tie, whether or not this is intentional, they will be disciplined.

She may be anticipating that some staff will try to take what they can with this, and with some good reason - they certainly have done in the past with the casual dress code! She is a young manager and generally good at her job, staff do get on with her well, though she does like to go by the rule. This still comes across as being harsh to me, though perhaps I am just not used to having a strict manager.

The previous manager we had wasn’t strict at all, though that may be a reason why some staff took advantage of the casual dress code we’ve been used to and we now have to return to more formal dress. I can’t recall anyone ever being taken through a discipline procedure or even warned about the possibility of being disciplined whilst he was in charge, so this is all new to us.

Some of you may feel that this type of strict management is best for everyone and that our manger now is being perfectly fair and that we can have no complaints. If so then I would like to hear your views.

 

[paulears]

For goodness sake - are you all on some kind of death wish? This is not strict management, it's just management. The bosses make the rules, the staff grumble a bit and comply.

Seriously - I am amazed. This is not some kind of crazy pink fancy dress they are compelling people to wear, or making everyone wear teenage clothes when there are workers in their 60s that would look silly - they want shirts and ties, not joker's hats. The questions "What happens if somebody accidentally forgets to put their tie on" is school stuff, not adult level. You are presumably a team, so if if Fred arrives 30 seconds before start time, having missed the bus, Jane will say "Fred - tie!" and he'll slap it on. It looks like mutiny on the bounty - planned 'accidental' misbehaving, trying to get the new rule rescinded.

Having the correct image really does work in a positive way - dressing in an appropriate way to make clients happy is perfectly normal. In retail, the trend to smart but casual was a big shift that worked, but in the few banks that remain open, you still see ties. Maybe you don't like it and think it unfair? That's fine - but do you really want to rock the boat with the manager so much that your career could be harmed. Managers often need to get people to do unpleasant things, and many managers even do nasty jobs themselves to preserve 'favours'. I know I do this. I've lost count how many times I have cleared up sick, poo and done other things instead of delegating it, because it doesn't matter to me, but I cannot afford to rock the boat on something so silly. However, this also means that when I do need to make people do unpleasant things, they do it.

In my role in entertainment, most backstage people are not the nicest to look at - grubby blacks, and unofficial phone game playing in the quiet sections when there is little to do. I would rather have them present and on their phones than in the crew room - in case of emergencies, but if we get a documentary crew in, I have to ban the phones, make sure everyone is wearing the right clothes and not perhaps what they bend the rules to. If I tell somebody who has shifted from black to dark blue, then perhaps to a lighter blue - that I want them back in black, I mean it - and no excuse that they forgot would hold water.

 

[soundengineeruk]

Some of you may feel that this type of strict management is best for everyone and that our manger now is being perfectly fair and that we can have no complaints. If so then I would like to hear your views.

We are looking from the outside in so it can be interpreted different ways. Me personally I prefer causal business dress and for the work I do and non-public facing role I probably question it to why the change.

If it is someone want to make their mark or got a bee in their bonnet, then they need grow up and be mature about it. I got discipline once whist working at financial services company for wearing steel toe cap shoes. I refuse to change my shoes and got a written warning...

However, it was torn up when I raised a grievance against the manager for basically putting my health & safety at risk. The company had on site data centre and majority of my time was spent in there, so there is heavy server and units in there and not crushing my toes for no one.

Returning back to employment I wear business casual, however there is term in my contract for dress up days when VIPs or prospective clients visit.

For goodness sake - are you all on some kind of death wish? This is not strict management, it's just management. The bosses make the rules, the staff grumble a bit and comply.

The bosses can make the rules, it does not mean they are right... People usually don't leave jobs, they leave managers.. Paulears, you do know this is 2017?

 

[logongra]

"grumble a bit and comply".Yes paulears that's really about it! Although most staff are not happy about this, I’m certainly not aware of any member of staff who is likely to refuse to comply with the dress code, whether anyone will try to get away with what they can, remains to be seen.

"This is not strict management". Well all I can say is that it is a lot stricter than I have been used to! I appreciate every ones view paulears so thank you for posting yours.

 

[Newchodge]

You are putting too much emphasis on the phrase 'disciplinary procedure'. the first stage is a discussion and a verbal warning to comply. What is wrong with that? And, frankly, Fred or even Frank, forgetting to put on his tie when he has already remembered to put on his shirt is just farcical.

 

[logongra]

Newchodge, I'll admit I don't know a lot about discipline procedures as I've never been subject to anything like that. Though as we have not been required to wear a tie as part of our office dress for 3 years, I don't see the scenario of forgetting to put a tie on as farcical at all. I appreciate you posting your comments though.

 

[paulears]

I'll lighten it up a bit. Three years ago, one of my Assistant Stage Managers was a very, very camp and lovely guy. Everyone else wears blacks - stage uniform black trousers, usually a black polo shirt or T shirt, black shoes and that is it. The idea is not to be seen. My ASM would wear a pink top, or a pink hat, or perhaps pink shoes, and every time I'd say "Matty - lose the pink shoes tomorrow", he'd wear black ones with pink socks - you get the idea. In the end, I'd had enough and waggled my finger in front of his nose and said "TOMORROW - BLACKS. No pink shoes, no pink socks, no pink trousers and no pink top - GOT IT?" He nodded.

Next day - I got black shoes, trousers and top - and a bloody pink feather boa. "Matty - what happened to black? " His response - "Black is just so drab...."

 

[Newchodge]

Newchodge, I'll admit I don't know a lot about discipline procedures as I've never been subject to anything like that. Though as we have not been required to wear a tie as part of our office dress for 3 years, I don't see the scenario of forgetting to put a tie on as farcical at all. I appreciate you posting your comments though.

The major change, according to your first post is moving from a polo type shirt to a long sleeved collared shirt. How can anyone 'forget' their tie when wearing such a shirt?

 

[logongra]

I know more than one company who's dress code specifies a long sleeved collared shirt but they do not specify that a tie must be worn so the two do not necessarily go together as part of a dress code.

 

[Newchodge]

I know more than one company who's dress code specifies a long sleeved collared shirt but they do not specify that a tie must be worn so the two do not necessarily go together as part of a dress code.

Your dress code has changed from a polo shirt to a long sleeved collared shirt and tie. If you can remember to put on the right shirt you can remember to put on a tie!

 

[Chris Ashdown]

You all went to school and no doubt wore a uniform so the idea is not something new you

A manager is there to run a business and not there to be your friend, in most cases they have been in your position and throe hard work and diligence moved up the ladder

A young manager will have to be holding up the company standards or their area manager will soon get someone new

I am sorry but you come across as a 15 year old spoil schoolboy who has no knowledge on how to behave as a worker and looking to pick a fight which you can only loose, I suggest you quickly change your attitude or you will soon be out of work

 

[logongra]

Newchodge, yes that is indeed our new dress code. Hopefully we will all remember our ties and nothing more will need to be said! Thank you for your comments.

 

[logongra]

You are entitled to your opinion Chris and I appreciate honest views whatever they might be.

 

[soundengineeruk]

You all went to school and no doubt wore a uniform so the idea is not something new you

Yep, but kids would push the boundaries with this. Plus, when I was at school they would make you wear goggles for woodwork and metal work, but you still had to keep you tie on... Great health & safely practices from the teachers.

A manager is there to run a business and not there to be your friend

Yes I agree partly. I have made number of friends who were my direct reports and lost some has well. Yes, we can be friends, but don't forget I'm your manager has well, so don't be surprised or upset if I pull you up. However, usually a friendly word solves the problem...

I am sorry but you come across as a 15 year old spoil schoolboy who has no knowledge on how to behave as a worker and looking to pick a fight which you can only loose, I suggest you quickly change your attitude or you will soon be out of work

As i said before we are on the outside looking in... it could be assumed that he is good worker who keeps his head down and keeps out of trouble. However, it does not mean he agrees with this change or looking for answer to questions.

Yes, I've been labelled troublemaker number of times and tried to be disciplined numerous of times as well; In the last decade & half only 1 written warning and never sacked; It not because I'm smart arse, it is down to holding my manager and their managers to same standards as my team.

So, if the dress code policy changed and a manager above me forgot his tie I would raise it to his manager & HR as don't like double standards.

 

[logongra]

Yep, but kids would push the boundaries with this. Plus, when I was at school they would make you wear goggles for woodwork and metal work, but you still had to keep you tie on... Great health & safely practices from the teachers.



Yes I agree partly. I have made number of friends who were my direct reports and lost some has well. Yes, we can be friends, but don't forget I'm your manager has well, so don't be surprised or upset if I pull you up. However, usually a friendly word solves the problem...



As i said before we are on the outside looking in... it could be assumed that he is good worker who keeps his head down and keeps out of trouble. However, it does not mean he agrees with this change or looking for answer to questions.

Yes, I've been labelled troublemaker number of times and tried to be disciplined numerous of times as well; In the last decade & half only 1 written warning and never sacked; It not because I'm smart arse, it is down to holding my manager and their managers to same standards as my team.

So, if the dress code policy changed and a manager above me forgot his tie I would raise it to his manager & HR as don't like double standards.

However, it does not mean he agrees with this change or looking for answer to questions.

That is exactly how I am soundengineeruk.

 

[ethical PR]

Lordy, just bring a few spare ties into the office if you are worried about forgetting and set an alarm on the phone to remind yourself to put one on when you get dressed

 

[NewGardenStyle]

A friend of mine works in a bank's data processing center. They switched policy to formal dress code, and to protest he turned up on Monday morning dressed as a Druid. He was sent home to change and given a warning.

 

[logongra]

That's interesting to hear NewGardenStyle, I'm not aware of anyone (including myself) who intends to do any protest dressing when our formal dress code comes in next month, If they do, I reckon my manager will deal with them is the same way your friend was dealt with! Thanks for posting.

 

[DontAsk]

Newchodge, yes that is indeed our new dress code. Hopefully we will all remember our ties and nothing more will need to be said! Thank you for your comments.

Buy a stock of those v-necked jumpers that have a shirt collar sewn into them and add a tie. Simples. You may even be able to buy the whole thing.

 

[Allan03]

For me that's fine. its management decision and its your manager who telling you that dress code policy. I think much better to follow it, so you don't beat around the bush.

 

[logongra]

I will be complying Allan03, I just wasn't sure that my manager went about this in the best way.