New business, no start up costs.........

[MessyPaws]

I've just started up my own business with no start up money. It's a business whereby I take my dogs into primary schools in order to teach young children about dog safety. I started this because of the increasing number of dog bites on children each year int eh UK.

I use my own dogs which ahve been extensively trained. They are family pets so their maintenance isn't a business ocst as such, although I suppose I could put it all through the business. Petrol is the only real cost and that depends on how far I go.

Anyway, I've contacted every primary school and specail school in the whole of the Midlands area, going as far as Wales, Loncolshire etc. About 2000 schools in total and have had responses from about 8 of them.

is it just me or are they not interested? If I can get them to respond then it's usually a yes but the problem I'm having is getting anythign out of them at all.

Does anyone have any ideas on how I can get schools to answer me? I haven't yet used teh medi - I thought of maybe Central News, local radio stations etc.

SO, anyone have any ideas please or advice for a newbie?

Thanks

Laura xx

 

[BizGurl]

Not too familiar with the Midlands, but Loncolshire :|

 

[vvaannmmaann]

Do you have PLI? How do you intend getting to the schools,fuel will be expensive,so that will be a business expense.
As for the schools,they will be terrified of wee Johnny getting bitten and them and you being sued.
Nice idea,but needs some more thought perhaps?

 

[S-Marketing]

What van man said, plus dont forget CRB checks and qualifications in dog handling so they know you know what you are doing. Without all the above its not an idea worth bothering with.

 

[MessyPaws]

Everything necessary is in place. I first thought of this 3 years ago. It cwertainly wasn't a case of thinking up the idea and going into a school the following day.

We have the relevant dog handling/behavioural stuff, CRB checks, more than enough insurance, risk assessments, dynamic risk assessments, all the H&S issues considered.

Also, I do make is very clear that we can do the talks without the dogs if preferred. There si no obligation fo rany school to accept the dogs if they don't want them there but we haven't have any refuse them yet.

We have also worked with the KC to get more info, planning through the scheme/talks themselves.

It's only the petrol so far that is an expense. I suppose advertising could be we don't really need to advertise when we can easily reach educational institutions with a free e-mail.

Also, in terms of area, I meant that we'd contacted schools as far as Lincs. We have gone into Lincs at all or contacted anyone from there. I wanted to make sure the whole of teh Midlands was covered and basically picked out all of the central local authorities.

I have thought of seeing if individual authorities would allow dverts on their sites but I doubt it somehow.

Laura xx

 

[Ralph at NWL]

I'm wondering if contacting the schools directly is your best bet. I'm sure they have very tight budgets and probably very little scope for extra spending, or even flexibility on what they spend their existing budgets on.

Maybe you would be better of approaching local education authorities to see if you can get a sign up for an entire area rather than picking off schools individually.

The other thing that comes to mind is trying to get a story in the paper (national would be great but if not local), or on local TV or radio. Make the story about the good work you can do to increase awareness, reduce the risk of attacks etc. Then, when the story is all set up invite along a local MP or council member to get their view on it. If you are seen in the public eye as wanting to offer a valuable service then the powers that be may feel obligated make things happen

 

[S-Marketing]

What the idea needs is marketing. If it was as easy as simply writing to schools someone would already been doing it.

Another thing to consider is the types of dogs you use. If you are writing to schools telling them you can bring in some spaniels it will probably be looked upon favourably. Sugget a GSD, Akita or Rottie and you have shot yourself in the foot before you even start.

 

[I Love Spreadsheets]

Sorry to be blunt but I don't think it is something that the majority of schools would be interested enough in to spend money on. They have very limited funds and they will have higher priorities for brought in education. Internet safety and anti bullying training will be of far higher interest to the schools because it makes the school a safer place and they are seen to be protecting children in their care.

I suspect dog bites is not high up on their priorities and if it was they could probably organise something of mutual benefit with the local branch of the RSCPCA, the PDSA or many of the dogs charities in the area.

Its a wonderful, well intentioned idea but I suspect you are not going to make any money out of it.

 

[David Earle]

Nice to see somebody coming up with an original business idea.

It might be worth posting an example here on the forum, of the letter you send to the schools, perhaps there is something about the design or wording of it that could use a little bit of help? Could make all the difference.

 

[jhardy2008]

i think you need to do proper follow up to get positive response.

 

[bizloanservices]

You could consider going through the respective school's governing body - find out who's a Governor at the target school and try to get an 'in' via them.

However, I do agree with the comment about school budgets. Funding budgets for this financial year were release two months or so ago and many schools are facing harsh decisions. When a school is faced with a budget cut and thinking about redundancies you are going to be very low on the priority list.

 

[i-Brokeit]

this is a great idea, the best of luck to you.

 

[Ralph at NWL]

Hi there

As a lot of people have said the idea is original and maybe the problem is your target market doesn't have enough of a vested interest in it.

Maybe you could consider who else could be interested in this other than schools. maybe residents associations and parents groups would have more of an interest in having this service.

 

[Country Services]

Anyway, I've contacted every primary school and specail school in the whole of the Midlands area, going as far as Wales, Loncolshire etc. About 2000 schools in total and have had responses from about 8 of them.

is it just me or are they not interested?

Hi Laura
Sorry to hear you have not had much response to your nice idea. Though actually 4 per thousand is not that unusual for a mailing response. A follow up phone call to each one would almost certainly improve your numbers
Even though you have covered this, I should think the main objection for many schools will be health and safety, and not so much with regard to dog bites. It only takes one set of parents to complain because little Johnny has a tummy upset after stroking your dog, and the whole thing becomes a hassle for the school.

Perhaps the best thing to do is just to go ahead with the ones that are interested and hope that word will spread about how informative and enjoyable your visits are. You may need to take time to build this up through word of mouth.

Good luck
Pippa

 

[LicensedToTrade]

I get the feeling that you aren't being entirely honest. You went from 'starting a business with zero start-up costs' to suddenly remembering about all the momeny you spent on an enhanced CRB, dog handling certs and public liability insurance.

Which is it?

What is it they say? Never work with children and animals

 

[Lincs1]

I think response is so low because the first image that comes into mind is a dog on the school grounds, there are many many reasons why in general they are not allowed. Maybe unless a guide dog? not sure, but they have a certain certification I'm sure.

I know you say the dogs do not have to come with you to be able to conduct your teachings, but then that leads to the other problem of there already being a scheme running with the same goals. I don't know how well they're doing though, maybe they have encountered the same problems as you.

Having said all that, I hope you can find the advice you need to pass these hurdles as I also believe that interacting with dogs safely is an essential skill for children, people often over look how valuable the knowledge and confidence is to have.

People might say it's the responsibility of the parents to teach the child these things, but if these are the same parents who quickly pick their child up in a panic to get away from the path of a dog because they 'think' it's viscous and have no confidence or experience then I despair.

I know you've wanted to keep costs down, but maybe renting a community hall/scout hut building once a week to hold your own dog safety training classes? Just an extra idea that might see more activity. Yes the parents would have to pay, but maybe there's a grant within the Government system that would pay you on the behalf of those parents who can't afford it? a community grant of some sort too as in a sense it is beneficial to the community.

Just an idea as I think you'd be far better off maybe using a bit more capital to make your business more viable by not focusing on schools.

 

[iArtist]

I think it's probably not proving that popular because when a dog bites it's usually the dog that is the problem not the child or the adult being bitten. Thus really you should perhaps be focusing your training on dogs rather than children? You'd certainly get more takers as a dog trainer.

I have been bitten a couple of times as a child and I can safely say it wasn't me that was the agent provacateur it was the ill-behaved dogs. I was once bitten in the face by an Alsation. She was 'on heat'. She jumped up and bit me while her owner and I were walking her. No provocation at all.

Meanwhile small dogs are often the worst because their owners never properly discipline them when they start barking, snapping and biting. I now have a large dog so I have to make sure he is properly behaved at all times and he has kids crawling all over him and he is as passive as anything. If he so much as growls at a child he will know my wrath.

In the dog world, there is a heirarchy, they recognise a leader and they recognise being kept in their place. Anything less leads to dangerous dogs.

Meanwhile re kids, my children are taught by me to be sensible around our dog (leaving him alone when he has a bone...no doggy rides, etc.) and have been told not to approach others dogs but rather to ignore them...as per dog whisperer instructions

It's not really a 'lesson' that requires a professional, it can be said in one simple sentance.

I think this is perhaps why your service isn't meeting with great success, there is simply no need for it. Dog training though...another matter...big market... and lots of money to be made.

 

[Lincs1]

Unique gift, I agree with what you say.

But what would your response be if a child jumped out of the bushes and shouted in your dogs face, scaring it into lashing out in fear.

Would you still suggest your dog be taken to training lessons and the child be given extra sweets for tea?

 

[Country Services]

I think it's probably not proving that popular because when a dog bites it's usually the dog that is the problem not the child or the adult being bitten. Thus really you should perhaps be focusing your training on dogs rather than children?

Although this does not account for every child bitten, recent research shows that children are much poorer than adults at reading dog’s body language and do not see the warning signs that most dogs give off before they bite.

Whilst there is no doubt at all that this is not the child’s responsibility, if helping children to be aware of danger signals reduces the number of children that get bitten, this has to be a good thing.

Unfortunately the sort of people that fail to supervise their dogs properly, or that encourage aggressive behaviour in their dogs, are usually the last people you can persuade to get involved in dog training.

Pippa

 

[Billmccallum]

The real question you need to ask yourself is "how does this activity fit into the school curriculum?".

Any school activity must have a primary purpose that is curriculum based, so how can you tailor your offer to meet their needs?

 

[MessyPaws]

We use our own scheme which has been approved by the KC and also works alongside the national curriculum with separate sections of training for KS1, KS2 and those with special needs (although it's not so specific for special needs as we don't always know the extent of the disabilities before we go into a school).

With regard to costs, insurance is already paid for the dogs and to get PLI for up to £5m per year is relatively cheap - a hell of a lot cheaper than I thought it would be. With regard to the CRB check, I am a qualfiied teaqching assistant and had one already under my belt that was paid for by the school I was working in at the time. Didn't cost me a penny.

The dynamic/risk assesments and H&S issues I have been able to deal with myself as I used to be an independent H&S advisor. So again, no coast other than my time to look stuff up and make sure everything needed was already in place.

In a nutshell, anything and everything that has a cost, can be obtained either a lot cheaper via a different channel or completely FOC if you know where to look or how to go about getting it.

We have contacted individual schools and local authorities. So whether schools are independently run or centrally controlled it should make any difference. We have contacted everyone we could think of at the time. I hadn't thought of contacting the Chair of Governors at eaxch school though. May be worth a try as I know have every schools e-mail on my system.

We don't just have GSDs and Akitas. We have a Collie x and a Lurcher that we use also. usually we give the schools that say yes the choice of which 2 dogs they want us to bring. Only one has asked for the Lurcher. All of ther others have asked for the 2 large male GSDs we have. So I don't think that anyone is put off by us using GSDs at all. As stated beofre, wealso make it clear that we don't have to use the dogs. We can still teach the children to stay safe without the dogs setting foot inside the school grounds.

Fortunately I can get free advertising on local radio and on TV locally but haven't considered local or national papers yet. I'll look into that next.

 

[papverpoppies]

We use our own scheme which has been approved by the KC and also works alongside the national curriculum with separate sections of training for KS1, KS2 and those with special needs (although it's not so specific for special needs as we don't always know the extent of the disabilities before we go into a school).

With regard to costs, insurance is already paid for the dogs and to get PLI for up to £5m per year is relatively cheap - a hell of a lot cheaper than I thought it would be. With regard to the CRB check, I am a qualfiied teaqching assistant and had one already under my belt that was paid for by the school I was working in at the time. Didn't cost me a penny.

The dynamic/risk assesments and H&S issues I have been able to deal with myself as I used to be an independent H&S advisor. So again, no coast other than my time to look stuff up and make sure everything needed was already in place.

In a nutshell, anything and everything that has a cost, can be obtained either a lot cheaper via a different channel or completely FOC if you know where to look or how to go about getting it.

We have contacted individual schools and local authorities. So whether schools are independently run or centrally controlled it should make any difference. We have contacted everyone we could think of at the time. I hadn't thought of contacting the Chair of Governors at eaxch school though. May be worth a try as I know have every schools e-mail on my system.

We don't just have GSDs and Akitas. We have a Collie x and a Lurcher that we use also. usually we give the schools that say yes the choice of which 2 dogs they want us to bring. Only one has asked for the Lurcher. All of ther others have asked for the 2 large male GSDs we have. So I don't think that anyone is put off by us using GSDs at all. As stated beofre, wealso make it clear that we don't have to use the dogs. We can still teach the children to stay safe without the dogs setting foot inside the school grounds.

Fortunately I can get free advertising on local radio and on TV locally but haven't considered local or national papers yet. I'll look into that next.

If you say you can do the talk without the dogs, does that not rather defeat the object.

I feel that it is the breed of dogs you are using (no disrespect to them) but I can imagine the parents would freak out if told someone was bringing 2 GSD to visit their little boy or girl.

Many years ago there was a scheme to introduce a dog to schools, the idea was to have the dog spend the day/s there - I believe the idea never got off the ground, so maybe that is why you are not getting a favourable reply.

Have you thought of not using schools; but setting up this idea privately ie hiring a hall and running classes for children and their parents, but again I would look to your breed.

You could combine it with (correct management/caring of dogs) lots of families want to own a dog but really have no idea how to go about it.
Point them away from mass bred dogs on puppy farms, and what to look for when buying a puppy or even a rescue dog.

Pops ~xx~

 

[iArtist]

Unique gift, I agree with what you say.

But what would your response be if a child jumped out of the bushes and shouted in your dogs face, scaring it into lashing out in fear.

Would you still suggest your dog be taken to training lessons and the child be given extra sweets for tea?

I say you're living in la la land because that never happens.

Kids are generally taught by parents how to be around dogs. It's not rocket science afterall. Kids do behave badly around dogs at times but if the dog is known to be unsettled by childen then the owner should make sure the dog is muzzled or out of reach of the childern.

I strongly believe that parents need to educate kids about these things, otherwise it's yet another cost out of the tax payer pocket to relieve parental responsibility.

Meanwhile if your dog bites...muzzle it.

 

[iArtist]

I forgot to add, if such an absurd situation were to occur (kid jumping and screaming in my dogs face) and my dog bit the child I would most definately punish the dog, muzzle it in future or have it destroyed.

My dog would not bite a child in these circumstances or any other for that matter and if your dog would then muzzle it. My mom's dog is a bitey dog (terrier) and she muzzles it for dog walks because the dog is a very timid dog and bites out of fear as you describe. Her dog is the problem.

The child who jumped out and screamed would also need some retraining but a biting dog is NOT one I would have around my children or any others under any circumstances.

There are dogs that bite and dogs that do not and the dogs that do have no place in a family home or around children and it's about time we stopped making excuses for them and their anxious owners.

 

[MessyPaws]

Well said. But at the same time as humans we have to bear in mind that we have invited these animals into our lives and homes, then when they "misbehave" tehy get punished adn that's from day one. Dogs behave like dogs. They're only naughty by our standards of right and wrogn which is completely different to that of a dog.

Part of the problem is dog owners with dogs they haven't trained, either can't or won't control appropriately. The other side of the coin are the children that are growing up today who are genuinely afraid of dogs - not because they've had bad experiences with them, but because their parents have instilled an unnecessary fear.

I have had children run up to my dogs (only a couple of times though) and scream in their faces. The dogs weren't phased by it becauswe they've been well socialised and trained.

From a personal perspective (nothing to do with business now) I think EVERYONE who owns a dog should be licensed. Not charged for each dog but specific checks etc to be done to esnure they have the ability/capability and willing to raise, train and maintain a specific breed of dog for the dog's lifetime. Furthermore, it should be a legal requirement that EVERY dog is taken to training and the KCGCS right up to the Gold level should be a minimum.

 

[papverpoppies]

I was speaking to someone who was fund raising for the Dogs Trust yesterday, and he told me that - they already work with schools.

So, maybe the reason you cannot get a look in, is because this Charity (which is well recognised and accepted) has that ground covered.

I, am not saying there is not plenty of scope for others, but as with anything, the education department will probably only look to organisations that are well recognised, especially in areas such as this - where the chances of something going wrong could/would be horrendous.

Pops ~xx~

 

[iArtist]

Well said. But at the same time as humans we have to bear in mind that we have invited these animals into our lives and homes, then when they "misbehave" tehy get punished adn that's from day one. Dogs behave like dogs. They're only naughty by our standards of right and wrogn which is completely different to that of a dog.

This is actually not correct.

In dog world, dogs are governed by a pack leader and that pack leader would NOT allow members of it's pack to step out of line and should they do so would bring them right back into line with a bite.

Family dogs need to be taught that all humans in their household are their pack leader and only on the say so of that pack leader can they 'act' a particular way.

That is normal dog behaviour.

It is not normal for a dog to bite a child who shouts at them unless the dog believes it is that childs pack leader and the dog is 'abnormal' with regard to how dogs ordinarily behave.

A dog in the wild would most likely run insitnctively from a child or would give it a 'warning' via it's body language. Then a warning with a bite. It wouldn't just launch a savage attack.

Dogs become dangerous because we've domesticated them, not the other way around. The same applies to all previously wild animals because all wild animals have a natural fear of humans and so avoid us.

I know this because I studied animals, animal care and so on for two years and worked in a zoo.

Animals require discipline and fear of humans to ensure we are safe around them. That doesn't mean beating them it means keeping an appropriate distance and understanding the natue of that beast in it's natural environment.

 

[iArtist]

Interesting facts re dangerous dogs:

Most aggressive dogs in UK top -10! Starting with most aggressive.

http://www.dogbiteclaims.co.uk/dangerous-breeds.html

1. Dachshunds
2. Chihuahua
3. Jack Russell
4. Australian Cattle Dog
5. Cocker Spaniel
6. Beagle
7. Border Collie
8. Pit Bull Terrier
9. Great Dane
10. English Springer Spaniel

The Dachshund, otherwise known as the Sausage dog, was originally bred to hunt badgers. They came out as the most aggressive breed
-----------------

Lots more interesting facts re dog breeds in that article.

 

[papverpoppies]

Interesting facts re dangerous dogs:

Most aggressive dogs in UK top -10! Starting with mso aggressive.

http://www.dogbiteclaims.co.uk/dangerous-breeds.html

1. Dachshunds
2. Chihuahua
3. Jack Russell
4. Australian Cattle Dog
5. Cocker Spaniel
6. Beagle
7. Border Collie
8. Pit Bull Terrier
9. Great Dane
10. English Springer Spaniel

The Dachshund, otherwise known as the Sausage dog, was originally bred to hunt badgers. They came out as the most aggressive breed
-----------------

Lots more interesting facts re dog breeds in that article.

Any dog in the wrong hands has the potential to do damage.

I think it is wrong that anyone is allowed to just 'own' a dog, especially some of the larger breeds.

If people actually took the time to research the dog that is right for them and their family, and asked questions instead of diving in head first, a lot of heartache and pain (on both sides) might be avoided.

Pops ~xx~

I should add that in my conversation with the Dogs Trust last week they told me they rehomed sixteen thousand dogs last year.
That is ONE organisation out of the countless up and down the Country taking in the strays and unwanted dogs.

 

[We Do PPI Claims]

i like it as an idea, what ages do you generally target

 

[MessyPaws]

We target kids between 5-14 years old - partly because children are 5 years old when they go to school (we don't go into nurseries) and the majority of bites etc occur up to the age of 14 (generally).

We attend all primary schools and special schools. Even though the kids in Special schools are up to 18/19 years old they still get a lot out of it if they're older.

The Dogs' Trust do go into schools but here in Birmingham, they ONLY go into "problem" areas which are few and far between here. So I doubt this has anythign to do with it.
As already stated by someone, there is a very low response rate from schools generally anyway, regardless of what's on offer but I will persevere. I hae asked that schools mail me back even to say no thank you out of courtesy and fortunately, the responses (positive and negative) are coming through now.

Things are starting to pick up now. We have bookings for later this term and also next academic year.

 

[iArtist]

Could it be competition and any fee you're charging?

This dog training school
http://www.perfectk94u.co.uk/

does talks in schools for free and I suspect others do too.

Their offer is thus:

"Dog Awareness Scheme - FREE ! This scheme is aimed at creating a safer environment for both children & dogs. It is available to schools, youth associations, cubs, scouts, brownies and the like. It main aim is to educate young people in how to safely approach an unknown dog. It can be a 1 off visit or continue for up to 7 weeks.C.R.B CHECKED"

There is also this chap:
http://www.dallysays.co.uk/

and if you Google, there are lots more (see here)

It could be that more market research is required before launching into this business. It does sound like it's a market that is perhaps already widely catered for.