Need Some Advice

[Graham Reid]

I started a job for a customer last year and on the quote I informed them that their pool was out of shape and wrinkles would appear in the new liner being fitted, the customer chose to go ahead, they then added other works that had to be completed before the liner was fitted and we proceeded, they paid upfront and had us invoice their company for pump repairs instead of the liner and hot tub.

now they are saying they didnt expect the wrinkles to be so bad and want either the money back or a new liner fitted and I'm wondering what to do, the liner will cost another £3000 and will wrinkle again.

they also didn't pay for the other work stating they would pay when satisfied which amounts to £900.00

 

[The Byre]

If you informed them in writing that the pool structure would lead to wrinkling of the liner, you are probably covered, but as Goethe wrote "The devil is hiding in the details."

With people like that, it's just best to avoid them altogether.

Your case remains me of something that happened to me - Ages ago, I rented a house to an older couple and the husband came down with a brain tumour and had to go to hospital. When he came out, he wanted to sit in the sun on a terrace at the back of the house, so being a nice chap, I had the whole thing rebuilt. As the whole property is in a completely different country and 1,000 miles away, I commissioned builders to do everything from soup to nuts.

The builder told us that the subsoil and scree would have to settle and that they would have to go over it with a vibration plate a few times before putting the stone tiles down. Two weeks until finished. OK for the old man as he was supposed to stay in bed for at least a month.

Then I got a call from the wife. The terrace is totally crooked and out of shape and what am I going to do about it? So I called the builder and asked what the hell had been going on.

"That stupid old fool couldn't wait." they told me. "He got out of bed and started laying the stone tiles himself before we had a chance to bed the scree in properly!"

He was dead within three months.

 

[ethical PR]

Take them to court for the £900. - Letter before action and small claims court.

If you advised them in writing about the fault with the pool lining you are probably covered.

 

[Deleted member 335660]

I started a job for a customer last year and on the quote I informed them that their pool was out of shape and wrinkles would appear in the new liner being fitted, the customer chose to go ahead, they then added other works that had to be completed before the liner was fitted and we proceeded, they paid upfront and had us invoice their company for pump repairs instead of the liner and hot tub.

now they are saying they didnt expect the wrinkles to be so bad and want either the money back or a new liner fitted and I'm wondering what to do, the liner will cost another £3000 and will wrinkle again.

they also didn't pay for the other work stating they would pay when satisfied which amounts to £900.00

Tricky one this but if you write it on the quote then I would be inclined to:

1. Say your sorry they are disappointed with the wrinkles.
2. However refer them to the quote and your warning.
3. That fitting a new liner would not solve the problem.
4. The other work has nothing to do with the liner and you expect payment or you will make a small court claim.

I would be prepared to loose the £900, but a court warning may be worth a try. I can’t see them wanting to go to court having fraudulently changed the invoice nature of work and it might not be in your interest to either.

 

[Darren_Ssc]

I can’t see them wanting to go to court having fraudulently changed the invoice nature of work and it might not be in your interest to either.

Exactly. He continued with the works knowing they would not be of a satisfactory standard. Failed to get any record of the customer agreeing to accept this and also commited VAT fraud in the bargain.

I'm failing to find any sympathy.

For future reference, when discussing works with a client always email them within 24 hrs confirming what was said.

 

[Big G]

Exactly. He continued with the works knowing they would not be of a satisfactory standard. Failed to get any record of the customer agreeing to accept this and also commited VAT fraud in the bargain.

I'm failing to find any sympathy.

For future reference, when discussing works with a client always email them within 24 hrs confirming what was said.

How very unhelpful.

The fact is that he advised the customer that the work may not resolve the problem due to the shape of the pool and they chose to proceed with the works anyway. All that he can do is advise the customer. Why should he turn down work if he advises them that correctly but they chose to proceed?

There is also no evidence that he has committed VAT fraud or that the other party has either. They asked him to change details on his invoice and raise the invoice to the company. He did this at his customers request. As long as the VAT has been accounted for and paid then where is his VAT fraud. The other party may well have committed some sort of fraud by paying for works via the business that do not relate to the business but that is their issue.

@Graham Reid, I would respond formally to them outlining your position regarding the lining and that you had explained that wrinkles may appear due to the shape of the pool but they instructed you to proceed and, as a result of this, no refund can be considered. Also inform them that they owe you £900.00 and detail exactly what this is for and tell them that no further works could even be considered until this is paid. Also place them on notice that, if it is not paid within 14 days, you may issue legal proceedings and reserve the right to rely on your correspondence as evidence that you have outlined your claim and allowed them the opportunity to pay.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

How very unhelpful.

There is also no evidence that he has committed VAT fraud or that the other party has either. They asked him to change details on his invoice and raise the invoice to the company. He did this at his customers request. As long as the VAT has been accounted for and paid then where is his VAT fraud. The other party may well have committed some sort of fraud by paying for works via the business that do not relate to the business but that is their issue.

No evidence of *VAT fraud but having having provided an invoice for works that bore no resemblance to that carried out, he has been party to deception for reasons unknown. An insurance claim on a faulty pump perhaps? The customer could lie, say they don't know why the liner wasn't on the invoice and unless there is physical evidence to prove one way or another the OP will need to answer that question.

*although the invoice to a company for what appears to be a personal job may suggest otherwise?

 

[Darren_Ssc]

The fact is that he advised the customer that the work may not resolve the problem due to the shape of the pool and they chose to proceed with the works anyway. All that he can do is advise the customer. Why should he turn down work if he advises them that correctly but they chose to proceed?

A professional would turn down the work knowing that the job could not be done properly. As an experienced professional he would also know that doing so would lead to no end of problems later on.

There is also no evidence that he has committed VAT fraud or that the other party has either. They asked him to change details on his invoice and raise the invoice to the company. He did this at his customers request. As long as the VAT has been accounted for and paid then where is his VAT fraud. The other party may well have committed some sort of fraud by paying for works via the business that do not relate to the business but that is their issue.

He says as much by agreeing to invoice the customer's business.

I would respond formally to them outlining your position regarding the lining and that you had explained that wrinkles may appear due to the shape of the pool but they instructed you to proceed and, as a result of this, no refund can be considered. Also inform them that they owe you £900.00 and detail exactly what this is for and tell them that no further works could even be considered until this is paid. Also place them on notice that, if it is not paid within 14 days, you may issue legal proceedings and reserve the right to rely on your correspondence as evidence that you have outlined your claim and allowed them the opportunity to pay.

He would be wasting his time since the customer will deny everything and he has no proof otherwise.

How very unhelpful

Really? I gave him free advice how he can avoid this situation happening again. This will save him a fortune in the long run.

All you're doing is encouraging him to keep on being a cowboy and this is unlikely to play out well.

I have the advantage of 20 odd years commercial construction experience. You don't.

 

[Lucan Unlordly]

He says as much by agreeing to invoice the customer's business.

Do we know if either business is VAT registered?

 

[Darren_Ssc]

Do we know if either business is VAT registered?

He implies that he constructed a pool. Not hard to guess he'd be vat registered? Even so, he admits to invoicing the customer's company which is tax fraud, vat or no vat.

 

[STDFR33]

He implies that he constructed a pool. Not hard to guess he'd be vat registered? Even so, he admits to invoicing the customer's company which is tax fraud, vat or no vat.

If the company contracted him (I.e director asks on behalf of the company for works to be done on his own house), that is perfectly legitimate and not for the OP to worry about the benefit in kind implication for his client.