Need some advice. Any feedback or help would be greatly appreciated

[John_2888]

Apologies if this is in the wrong thread but I'm currently in a bit of a pickle and looking for some advice. I have just completed a BA degree in Sound Engineering were I obtained a first and I have previously completed the Open University Professional Certificate in Accounting (equivalent to AAT level 4), this also give exemptions from the first 3 ACCA exams. I'm now in a position where I am a postgrad looking for work (I do not have a huge amount of work experience currently on my CV).

Ideally, a job relating to sound engineering was my hope, however, it has been hard to find something related to this and I'm starting to consider alternative option in the mean time. I'm currently cleaning to pay the rent and would like to aim to get something else. Having previously done the Professional Certificate in Accounting I'm now considering what would be a way to secure some kind of entry level accounting role such as an accounting assistant, maybe on a part time basis. My concern is that I have forgotten most of the knowledge I had learnt from the Professional Certificate of Accounting as this was around 3 years ago that I studied this.

 

[The Byre]

Sound engineering in the UK - no chance unless you have attended the Tonmeister course at Surrey Uni or possibly did AV post-production to degree level at NFTS. Every other course is/was a total waste of time and money.

My 30 cents worth - get a regular office job and take it from there.

The obvious question is - what the F do you really want to do? What is your ambition in life?

 

[John_2888]

Sound engineering in the UK - no chance unless you have attended the Tonmeister course at Surrey Uni or possibly did AV post-production to degree level at NFTS. Every other course is/was a total waste of time and money.

My 30 cents worth - get a regular office job and take it from there.

The obvious question is - what the F do you really want to do? What is your ambition in life?

I would have to completely disagree with you that every other sound engineering degree is/was a total waste of time and money.

 

[The Byre]

If your degree course was worth more than a bucket of warm spit, you'd have a job by now!

Sorry to have to be negative about your chances as a sound 'engineer' but this is a field I have looked at in great depth. There are about 50 commercial recording studios in the UK, some 100 post-production houses and another dozen or so larger PA companies. The broadcasters do not employ many sound people, a handful at most as they now give that job to 'production assistants' (who do audio rather badly BTW). Only a very few are required every year as employees or even as freelancers.

There are 137 'audio engineering' degree courses (or music tech or similar titles) each churning out some 20+ graduates every year. Add to that all the 'Dewee, Cheetem & Howe' courses and the 'Wysuckie College for the Totally Dumb' private rip-off audio courses (SAE, etc.) and you have some 3,000 or more 'graduates' chasing a handful of openings.

And I do mean just a handful!

If you are running a large inner-city studio and you need a second in-house guy or girl, you go for the best that applies and the best have a five-year MA and all can play two instruments, write arrangements and read a score. i.e. a Tonmeister.

So back to the question - what do you want to do?

 

[JEREMY HAWKE]

@The Byre Im not going to dismiss the OPs degree It is something that I don't have and it is not all about the money . All I have is a bit of paper that says I can fish the river culm

 

[John_2888]

If your degree course was worth more than a bucket of warm spit, you'd have a job by now!

Sorry to have to be negative about your chances as a sound 'engineer' but this is a field I have looked at in great depth. There are about 50 commercial recording studios in the UK, some 100 post-production houses and another dozen or so larger PA companies. The broadcasters do not employ many sound people, a handful at most as they now give that job to 'production assistants' (who do audio rather badly BTW). Only a very few are required every year as employees or even as freelancers.

There are 137 'audio engineering' degree courses (or music tech or similar titles) each churning out some 20+ graduates every year. Add to that all the 'Dewee, Cheetem & Howe' courses and the 'Wysuckie College for the Totally Dumb' private rip-off audio courses (SAE, etc.) and you have some 3,000 or more 'graduates' chasing a handful of openings.

And I do mean just a handful!

If you are running a large inner-city studio and you need a second in-house guy or girl, you go for the best that applies and the best have a five-year MA and all can play two instruments, write arrangements and read a score. i.e. a Tonmeister.

So back to the question - what do you want to do?

Alluding to the idea that the degree is not worth any more than a bucket of warm spit is absolutely ridiculous and again I completely disagree with this.

I'm not disagreeing with you that a job in Sound Engineering is not something that is very difficult to get and has very limited job posts. However, that does not stop me and many others from pursuing their passions (mine is primarily in composition).

 

[The Byre]

All I have is a bit of paper that says I can fish the river culm

At least that bit of paper is useful!

These kids are being conned. It is one HUGE LIE that is being peddled to youngsters who cannot know any better. The lie (that there are jobs and careers out there) is being perpetrated by colleges that used to be polytechnics and all they want is the thousands of pounds that pour in when some poor sap signs on the dotted line.

They think they are going to actually learn about music and technology and all they get is some fool showing them how to use software like ProTools and where he thinks microphones should go. They come away knowing one piece of software and most cannot read a score or a circuit diagram. That 'Music Technology' without any music and without any technology!

These colleges have marketing directors whose job it is to lie. They produce glossy brochures and interactive websites showing young good-looking people behind large Neve-designed mixing desks being windswept and groovy.

that does not stop me and many others from pursuing their passions (mine is primarily in composition).

If that is what you want to do - do it! Start with film music.

Of course, one of the top agencies is not going to take you on, but a young struggling film-maker will! Ask for points on gross - just-in-case the thing sells!

Story - I once asked Bryan Grant, who at the time ran and part-owned Brit-Row, the UK's largest PA company, what his advice to anyone starting in live sound would be. (He began as an unpaid roadie for an unknown band touring colleges and pubs called The Pink Floyd.)

His advice was golden! "Find your Pink Floyd! Do it now!"

In other words, find your rising star and help them. Find that aspiring and brilliant first-time young filmmaker and tell them that you could help them with the score for their great opus! Keep doing that for a few years, leap-frogging from project to project, each one better than the one before and soon people will start asking for you and your work (if you are any good!)

Keep banging on and in ten years' time, the folks at Hot House Music will want to talk to you about contracts and percentages!

 

[simon field]

Alluding to the idea that the degree is not worth any more than a bucket of warm spit is absolutely ridiculous and again I completely disagree with this.

I'm not disagreeing with you that a job in Sound Engineering is not something that is very difficult to get and has very limited job posts. However, that does not stop me and many others from pursuing their passions (mine is primarily in composition).

People don't want to see degrees, they want to see experience.

Treat the music thing as a hobby - get your name about with the local young up-and-coming bands, hang out where they hang out, offer whatever services you offer as a way to build a portfolio of real experience.

Until then, if you've already forgotten everything you learned to be an accountant, just get as much cleaning work as you can and then when you're at bursting point you can delegate.

Good Luck!

 

[Mr D]

Alluding to the idea that the degree is not worth any more than a bucket of warm spit is absolutely ridiculous and again I completely disagree with this.

I'm not disagreeing with you that a job in Sound Engineering is not something that is very difficult to get and has very limited job posts. However, that does not stop me and many others from pursuing their passions (mine is primarily in composition).

So pursue your passion.
Just don't expect it to be as a sound engineer employee.

Nothing wrong with cleaning.

 

[John_2888]

At least that bit of paper is useful!

These kids are being conned. It is one HUGE LIE that is being peddled to youngsters who cannot know any better. The lie (that there are jobs and careers out there) is being perpetrated by colleges that used to be polytechnics and all they want is the thousands of pounds that pour in when some poor sap signs on the dotted line.

They think they are going to actually learn about music and technology and all they get is some fool showing them how to use software like ProTools and where he thinks microphones should go. They come away knowing one piece of software and most cannot read a score or a circuit diagram. That 'Music Technology' without any music and without any technology!

These colleges have marketing directors whose job it is to lie. They produce glossy brochures and interactive websites showing young good-looking people behind large Neve-designed mixing desks being windswept and groovy.

Some colleges marketing tactics are questionable, however, I never thought I would just walk into a role related to sound engineering working in a studio after graduating. I took it due to wanting to study an area I am passionate in. However, I will say that a degree in sound engineering is far from just learning a piece of software like Pro-Tools or where to place microphones as you suggest. Writing a 15,000 word research project, alongside presentations and two other self directed major projects (45 mins of music compositions for an educational charity and a major project that consisted of 45 minute solo performance that combined live electronic computer music processes with an acoustic piano) alongside many other essays and documentation in final year is far beyond learning just Pro Tools, which btw was offered in first/second year completely independent to the degree modules as part of the 101, 110, 210 Pro Tools courses!!

 

[Stas Lawicki]

It's a tricky workplace world out there. Your problem is that unless you go into something very specific, most employers or recruiters (!) wont have a clue what your degree means or how it might fit the job you are applying for. That's not to underestimate or devalue your efforts at uni, but you've got expect that the majority of the marketplace won't have a clue how your degree reflects your skills as a person. There is another way...

If I was you...

Keep up the cleaning work to pay the rent for now.

Keep applying for specific roles within your field, but also look at others that are closely related. I would imagine there are loads of opportunities out there, such as; AV sound engineer for live gigs, shows, events, exhibitions, for custom installs and commissioning for resi and commercial projects. Then there might be recording for various outlets like local radio, bloggers. Talk to M&E contractors and AV contractors about work they may have. Set yourself up as a sole trader and specialist sound engineer, offer assistance in calibration and re-calibration. Fault finding/rectification/expert witness etc. PA systems, stadia system maintenance - find out who needs and who does it. Large buildings, complexes, council buildings, museums etc - they all have PA and address systems, and they all need maintaining. At least this way people might relate what you have studied with the task at hand. They may need some convincing though - as might you!

Think outside of this box that people talk about. Don't be too narrow in what you want now - figure that out as you go. You might stumble across something you really enjoy that isn't quite what you had in mind. You might stumble across the perfect role you imagined.

The accounting thing might work if you are willing to start from the bottom - there are loads of accountants out there looking for people. But it sounds (no pun) like you perhaps wont like this at all and will soon get fed up. In which case, keep grafting with the cleaning.

Don't pressure yourself. Find the thing you truly like and don't assume you can only do the one thing you studied for. Get out there, make some mistakes, try different things - settle on the thing you enjoy.

Perfection doesn't exist, so don't waste your life or opportunities in search of it.

Good luck!

 

[Deleted member 59730]

I studied photography many years ago when it was only City and Guilds. When I left the course I hand typed 120 letters to all the top photographers in London asking for a job as an assistant. I posted them all on one day and got 23 appts which I arranged in one week. I worked on the assumption that out of 120 studios at least one assistant would have handed in their notice in that week when my letters arrived. Most of those appointments did not have a vacancy but all of them would give me their time and advice. At the end of the week I had a job as an assistant at a very low wage. After 4 weeks my boss asked if I had any qualifications!. I stayed for 4 years before going freelance working for the top Ad agencies in London.

 

[The Byre]

the idea that the degree is not worth any more than a bucket of warm spit is absolutely ridiculous and again I completely disagree with this.

What you learn at uni is just one-third of what they are there for. And TBH, although your course seems to have been somewhat better than most, the overwhelming majority of those 137 courses are worse than useless because they teach bad habits, incorrect techniques,out-dated methods and miss huge chunks of vital aspects of what it takes to be an audio engineer.

They usually miss live sound, sound design, ADR, Foleys, SFX, acoustic engineering and just think in terms of recording studios for music (probably the smallest part of the audio career field) and little else.

The other two-thirds are your colleagues and the uni's links to industry. You did not mention any internships that you should have had within the music and film and TV industries. The uni should have been organising these for you.

Your colleagues are also vital. You get one another gigs. That's how the creative industries work! One guy/girl gets a gig as an arranger or editor somewhere and the producer asks if they know any film sound designers - "Well, there was one guy on our course who was really good at this."