Myob/Mamut big problem for our business

[stevegriff]

We switched to mamut early 2009, after 12 years with myob, as we were in the emarket for a product that had more functionality on the purchasing side.
Big mistake , the switchover was hampered by there so called integration tool which was a joke and the fact the staff didnt seem to know how to setup the network version. A year on we found we gradually found ourselves in more and more of a mess as we found glitch after glitch in our
data. Many of these were down to settings we didnt know about but the
bottom line is its just badly designed and thought out. The lack of import features meant it just couldnt do what we wanted it to. I was told it had
full import functionality but actually its very limited and tricky to use.
Most proceedures are very slow. We had to switch our accounts to quickbooks to resolve some vat issues which meant alll our vat returns were wrong although mamut support insisted all our settings were correct.
When we switcheded we found it took half the time to do the books
even though we had to re-enter everything.
Be warned this is not a good road to go down, we didnt realise anything
was wrong until the 2nd vat return but when it came to the year end
our accounts were spaghetti, our (myob) accountants are still trying to sort out the mess.

 

[MackerG4]

I am a MYOB user trying to raise awareness, in whatever media I can think of, of what Mamut is doing to us. I am issuing the following message. Perhaps members of this forum who have an interest can either distribute this message or send their own to try to get the media to pick up the story and maybe get Mamut to reverse their decision.

------------
Imagine if you will this scenario: Tata Motors, in an attempt to force people to buy new cars from them, disable all the cars that were previously produced by Jaguar Land Rover so that they are rendered useless. It just wouldn't happen. But this is exactly what software developer Mamut Software Limited are doing to owners of MYOB accounting software.

Since the 90s MYOB accounting software was sold in the UK. Aimed mainly at small business the software became very popular with both Windows and Mac customers. Then in 2008 MYOB (an Australian company) decided to withdraw from the UK market and handed over their UK interests to Mamut Software Limited (26-28 Hammersmith Grove, London W6 7BA). Mamut had their own accounting software at the time but it was regarded by the MYOB user community as inferior to MYOB and too highly priced.

Recently Mamut have withdrawn their support for MYOB. This is fair enough. However in a recent announcement they have declared that they are going to DISABLE ALL WORKING COPIES of MYOB on 31st December 2011.

When the application is opened the software automatically makes contact with a web server which checks that the copy in use is registered correctly and owned by the user. Mamut are going to use this verification process to disable the software for future use. The companies who are using it will find that there accounts system will become read-only and will no longer be able to make use of it to add new records etc. So on 1st January next year many SMEs will suddenly discover that their accounting systems are unusable, with the obvious catastrophic consequences. This deliberate act is designed to force customers to go and buy a different package. Oh, and Mamut offer a very expensive package with no easy path to migrate from MYOB.

Software developers do stop supporting various applications over time. They then try to promote an alternative or an upgrade. All this is fair enough. But to deliberately disable bought and paid for software which works well and has a pivotal role in the operation of many small businesses is a sinister new twist and, of course, a disgrace.

 

[Davek0974]

This happened to me recently, I was using MYOB first edge, an excellent product for macs. I was told about the cessation of support and many arguments ensued between myself, myob and mamut. Naturally the end result was "no longer supported, goodbye".

It was basically ransomeware - pay hard for an upgrade or go away.

It would have been very acceptable to just remove support and stop providing updates therefore letting us carry on for ever on the same product, but they are too focused on their own agenda to worry about paying customers I guess.

I have recommended heavily that people stay a million miles away from myob and mamut for this poor service.

I have since started using Adminsoft accounts, a free package that does so much more than first edge, it's brilliant and requires no verification, my accountant likes it too.

 

[stevegriff]

The whole situation sucks but there are plenty of good accounting packages out there which dont have to be that expensive.
Mamut is definitely not one of them, its a very poor piece of software in all aspects. Dont be tempted to try it. If you have stock , and we have very complex stock , then separate stock and accounting. It means you can get a specialist in each filed which is better. We are using quickbooks for accounts and Positive retail manager for stock which is a high end epos
system.
Mamut dont seem to have a clue how to design either a stock package or an accounts on as both are fundamentally floored.

 

[shaftedbymamut]

I only just read about this in MacUser, and I have to say I'm appalled.

If I understand correctly, the verification process was introduced to do just as it says, verify the software is legitimate, and disable it if it isn't.
It was/is an anti-piracy measure. And that is entirely reasonable.

Mamut have hijacked this functionality & are now using this to turn the software off, and by doing so are essentially saying that the software we've all bought and paid for is not legitimate.

It's outrageous, and given that the function is being used for a purpose it wasn't designed for, possibly illegal.
There's probably also a legal issue about having something I legitimately own denied me.

I've been using MYOB for over 10 years, have upgraded a couple of times and am now on V15 Accounting Plus, but have never used support from MYOB, or indeed Mamut. I have never needed to. I don't use payroll, and the software I have does what I need.

What Mamut are proposing is that I am blackmailed into paying for something that I don't need, want, and in the case of their support, won't use.

Treating a user base like this is a bizarre way to run a business, especially one in a competitive sphere such as software, but they are obviously hoping that enough people can't be bothered with the aggravation of switching systems & fork out.

 

[Davek0974]

That about sums it up, they could have just unlocked it and discontinued support, that would have been the best option.

 

[Steveval]

Is anyone taking legal action ?... if so, I would be interested in joining.
I am a MYOB Accounting Plus V14 (Windows) user & do not require the payroll functionality, nor do I require tech. support.

I am perfectly happy with the MYOB software & think it is crazy that the datafile reconfirmation process will be terminated on 31 December 2011 !

There seems to be total agreement that MYOB was/is a decent program and that Mamut is rubbish. We paid for the upgrade (?) to Mamut but although I am quite computer and accounting literate, I couldn't get on with it at all, - I even had to phone support to find out how to enter a new line on a invoice! Not at all user friendly. I went straight back to MYOB and binned Mamut.

I have read all of this thread and notice that "our man from Mamut" has gone very quiet. Has any decision been made regarding the switch off? Has a legal opinion been requested or offered by anyone? Surely a firm of solicitors, somewhere, must use MYOB and be willing to act (earn?) on an action? Surely there is a computer boffin somewhere who can stop the program accessing this server that switches off the program? Or is the "switch off" embedded in the software itself? Has the FSB been active in this and helped to mobilise the troops? I'm sure it could collect enough disgruntled MYOB users to pay for an action, - and what about all the insurance policies that promise to pay for legal action?

Business is difficult enough at the moment, without having to pay for new software and training. Let's make some waves.............

 

[Deleted member 116728]

Ladies and Gentlemen of this thread.

I have been watching this thread for sometime now and feel this an appropriate time to add to it.

We need to face up to some simple facts.

MYOB had taken the decision to pull out of the UK market therefore leaving us MYOB users high and dry.

We were potentially looking at having to go out and find a whole new set up and software to learn and all the cost implications that go with such a monumental change.

Along came Mamut.

Mamut recognised a business opportunity and invested heavily buying the MYOB customer base. And what business does not want a return on it's investment.

Will someone remind me why WE invest in our businesses?

Mamut have taken the MYOB product and improved on it. They have invested in further development of the product and are now asking we users to support them.

We should be thanking Mamut not pillorying them.

Compare the cost implications of a whole new install and all the training required against a simple upgrade!

In today's economic climate, I'm sticking with mamut and the new version.

As a side matter, the new version really is head and shoulders above the old.

Thank you Mamut and keep up the good work

 

[shaftedbymamut]

Actually they aren't asking us. They are telling us, that unless we do, we're stuffed.
That's a big and significant difference.

 

[Deleted member 116728]

Sir/Madam of 'shaftedbymamut'.

You are in business. You have invested in your business. You expect a return on your investment.

Mamut have offered MYOB users a lifeline and yet you complain.

Consider the scenario if Mamut had not stepped in and offered a workable, affordable, alternative.

Remember that in business time is money, and how much is your time worth?

How much of your time would you spend researching an alternative?
How much of your time would you spend meeting sales people?
How much of your time would you spend watching demonstrations?
How much of your time would you spend agonising over which will be best for your business?
How much of your time would you spend with the installers?
How much of your time would you spend being retrained on the new programme?
How much of your business time would be spent training staff to use a new system.

Just what are the implications to your business going through such a change?

Compared to what Mamut are asking of you, The alternative is far more unthinkable.

 

[shaftedbymamut]

You miss the point completely. Mamumt haven't offered anyone a lifeline, they've grabbed users by the gonads and are demanding money. Failure to capitulate will result in termination.

Read through the licence agreement and identify anywhere where it says that the software can be arbitrarily terminated through non verification of the data files. It doesn't. Not by MYOB, and not by any successor.

 

[Deleted member 116728]

MYOB had taken the decision that the UK market wasn't worth their efforts.

Take Mamut out of the equation and what have you got left. NOTHING!

2011 MYOB as a business no longer exists in the UK. You are using an application that has very limited lifespan. You are facing a major upheaval in your business because you are going to have to find an alternative.

What is there to understand that without Mamut stepping in you would have been left with NOTHING!

NOTHING from NOTHING = NOTHING!

Right now you have a choice, so you have something.

Something is much better than NOTHING.

I for one am grateful to have something. That means I do not have to go through the unthinkable.

I'm not having to find an alternative and all the cost implications.
I'm not having to retrain all my staff and incur the costs of doing so.

I have a working system that comes with a first class support team and I am one happy bunny because I can see a future without too many changes needed.

My something is much better than your Nothing.

Again I say. Thank you Mamut.

Come on. It's little price to pay for something.

 

[shaftedbymamut]

I am using an application that was bought and paid for, and which continues to function as it needs.
Take Mamut out of the equation and we'd be left with software that we all paid for, working as we expected.
Have you read the licence? I notice you didn't respond to that.

 

[and180y]

Bought Mamut, tried to use functions we had asked for only to find they were extra, bought them, asked about other functions that were supposed to be part of it and had to upgrade to a different package.
Had so many problems with the epos side crashing and not reporting back to the accounts package (apparently it it coded by someone else).

In my experience and after countless calls to support (who rarely get back to you, and if they do normally repeat the question you asked them) and even having one of their re-sellers onsite for half a day trying to sort it out then having to bin the software, it is the biggest piece of crap I have ever tried to use. (at one point Mamut support were too busy to help and passed the problems onto a third party in another country to try to sort the issues out!!)

Moving away from it was the best thing we did, I honestly feel it held our business back by about 18 months!!

 

[Deleted member 116728]

Just as you have the right to change your business Terms & Conditions, the owners of the software have the right to change their Software Licenses.

And you should also consider.

If, and not so uncommon, your data file should become corrupt and you don't notice it until it's too late and your back up copies the corrupt file, who you going to call?

Ghostbusters certainly won't help you.

 

[and180y]

If, and not so uncommon, your data file should become corrupt and you don't notice it until it's too late and your back up copies the corrupt file, who you going to call?

Ghostbusters certainly won't help you.

In my experience neither will Mamut!!

 

[Deleted member 116728]

I use payroll and have the tax codes installed.

This facility alone is invaluable in my business.

I consider the support I buy and pay for worth every penny.

 

[Deleted member 116728]

Okay.

You still don't get it do you!

No MYOB, NO choice.

If something goes wrong you are out on limb with no possibility of help from anywhere.

At least with Mamut holding the fort you have someone to turn to.

 

[Deleted member 116728]

To And180y

Which accounts package are you referring to?

I'm only involved with what was MYOB on Apple mac and Account Edge on Mac.

 

[and180y]

Okay.

You still don't get it do you!

No MYOB, NO choice.

If something goes wrong you are out on limb with no possibility of help from anywhere.

At least with Mamut holding the fort you have someone to turn to.

For a price, it seems?

 

[and180y]

To And180y

Which accounts package are you referring to?

I'm only involved with what was MYOB on Apple mac and Account Edge on Mac.

Can't remember the original package but I'm sure we ended up on E4 or 5 (Mamut)

 

[Deleted member 116728]

Do you work for your customers for free? I certainly don't.

My company sells a specialist product and we expect to be paid for every product sold.

Simple business ethic here.

We sell specialist support for the product and our customers happily pay us for the specialist knowledge we have had to learn in order to pass on to them.

This is why there is an old saying of "each to their own".

So Mamut are specifying that you must have a support plan in place to use their software.

To my mind that's a good business practice. A fully fledged contingency plan.

I have the peace of mind that if any of my operators have a problem they have a professional to turn to to help them resolve the problem quickly and efficiently.

 

[and180y]

Do you work for your customers for free? I certainly don't.

My company sells a specialist product and we expect to be paid for every product sold.

Simple business ethic here.

We sell specialist support for the product and our customers happily pay us for the specialist knowledge we have had to learn in order to pass on to them.

This is why there is an old saying of "each to their own".

So Mamut are specifying that you must have a support plan in place to use their software.

To my mind that's a good business practice. A fully fledged contingency plan.

I have the peace of mind that if any of my operators have a problem they have a professional to turn to to help them resolve the problem quickly and efficiently.

Good business practice? In my experience it was a necessary part of trying to use the software!! Hopefully they now have some support guys who actually know the product and can fix the issues, they couldn't when we tried to use their software!!

 

[Deleted member 116728]

Please note I can only speak of MYOB and Account Edge. I have no knowledge whatsoever of Mamut PC product.

 

[KM-Tiger]

So Mamut are specifying that you must have a support plan in place to use their software.

To my mind that's a good business practice. A fully fledged contingency plan.

No, that's a roll over and pay the ransom business practice.

A better business practice is to assess the business risk against the support cost. How that works out for you could be quite different to how it works out for others.

Personally I stopped paying for support for the bookkeeping software I still use back in 2004. I simply did not need support any more and the software still works fine.

The offers to "upgrade", cajoling, and veiled threats based on FUD, which emanated from the North East eventually died out, and I carry on using the software that I paid for.

 

[shaftedbymamut]

Just as you have the right to change your business Terms & Conditions, the owners of the software have the right to change their Software Licenses.

Of course they do, as do I. But those new terms and conditions only apply to business from that point on. You cannot apply these retrospectively.

 

[Deleted member 116728]

It's clear that a lot of people have a lot of different views about Mamut and specifically their practice of requiring users to have a support agreement in place.

Let me put this in to perspective from where I stand.

My company sells a specialist product. We have 3 competitors in our marketplace and 2 of those sell the very same product.

We have adopted Mamut's principle of insisting that OUR customer buys the product with a support agreement.

This came about because we found our competitors customers telephoning us for support that they couldn't get from our competitors. We weren't charging for the calls and so ended up the laughing stock.

Once we discovered this, we knew we had to put a stop to it or risk financial ruin.

We also know that of so much product sold, we will receive a quantifiable number of calls for support and we needed income to provide a support team that would meet the number of calls we would receive.

We introduced the Mamut policy, explained it fully to our customers, and our customers agreed that we were right to do so.

The income generated keeps our own support team fully trained in current and forth coming product, and ensures that we have sufficient support staff to man the phones a reasonable number of hours per day.

We are no different to Mamut in that respect. Mamut know that a number of people who buy product will need support at some time or another and in order to ensure that they have sufficient well trained staff they specify that you the user pay for that support.

It's your choice whether you use it or not, but also correct that you pay something toward the fact that it's there just in case.

Bit like the AA and RAC really. You pay them just in case.

 

[Deleted member 116728]

At the end of the day you have a choice.

Go with a product you know, and at a not unreasonable cost,

or,

go find yourself another with a different supplier and commit to all the additional costs you are going to incur doing so. Not forgetting all the upheaval.

Mamut are not going to change and from where I stand I support them for taking this stance. You can see why from my previous thread.

it's a long drawn out argument concerning support.

So many people invest fortunes in IT and then don't capitalise on their investment because they won't spend anymore money on it.

IT is a living beast that's changing and improving all the time. You either accept it and make the most of it, or stick your head in the sand and let the rest wash over you.

just look at how Twitter and facebook have impacted on business. Personally I think Twitter and facebook is shite but i have to accept that they are the way of the future.

Paying your bit towards a support team whether you use them or not is not unreasonable in today's business world.

It's like paying Tax & N.I. The National Health isn't free and you don't have a choice. I haven't been ill in the last 15 years but I'm still glad I'm paying my bit to keep the local hospital open for that day I might need it.

 

[shaftedbymamut]

Adopt the Mamut approach? Did you go back to all previous customers and tell them that unless they stumped up ongoing cash, you were going to disable their products?

 

[Deleted member 116728]

Lets address some additional simple facts.

Professional software written by a professional software house is continually updated and improved and new customer driven goodies added.

This is the same approach that computer manufacturers take. Their products are continually updated and improved.

Example.
Apple are now offering 64bit processing. That means any software running in 64bit mode is twice as fast as 32bit software.

Apple are almost at the point where software that run under G3/4/5 PowerPC processors will not run under the latest operating system.

This is not the fault of the software houses who then have to issue completely new versions to keep up.

But who pays for this development? We the users of course.

We cannot continue to operate in the dark ages of computers, technology advances and so does the software.

There comes the point in time when you have to move on and switch off the old.

In this instance, Mamut has made the decision for you and to be fair, they have given everyone concerned plenty of notice. They haven't just arbitrarily taken the decision and moved on, they have thought about it, the impact on the customer base and provided plenty of time for people to get used to the idea.

Computers and the software they run don't go one for ever just as motor cars don't.

There comes the time when it is uneconomic to continue to support something that is obsolete.

So Mamut say that day has come and the replacement is here ready for you to move to, it takes all your existing data and is bang up to date.

At a reasonable price you can migrate.

Well if that's so bad that you want to stick in the dark ages stop complaining and let the rest of us move on.

 

[johndon68]

Apple are now offering 64bit processing. That means any software running in 64bit mode is twice as fast as 32bit software.

No it doesn't, there are any number of factors outside of the processor that impact on the speed of an application...

John

 

[shaftedbymamut]

Nobody is disputing the fact that if you want to you can. That's your or anybodys choice. What's wrong with this action is the coercion and threat of having software disabled if not.

I'll ask you these again. What did you do to your customers, did you threaten them with disabling their products? And what does your original MYOB licence say?

 

[Spiny]

Professional software written by a professional software house is continually updated and improved and new customer driven goodies added.

Agreed, and I think no-one would want it any other way, but the point is, that those companies never switch off older software, the updates are optional !

This is the same approach that computer manufacturers take. Their products are continually updated and improved.

Right again, but again you miss the point, said computer manufacturers do not come round your house & confiscate your older computer, they give you the OPTION of buying a new one OR soldiering on with your old one !

Apple are almost at the point where software that run under G3/4/5 PowerPC processors will not run under the latest operating system.

And? What are Apple doing about that? Are they remotely disabling the ageing software? I think not ............ I still have 2 old iMac G3's happily running OS9.

This is not the fault of the software houses who then have to issue completely new versions to keep up.

Right again, it's not their fault, and so they should issue new versions to keep up, but they should not impose these updates upon people who do not require them by using, what in my opinion is blackmail.

But who pays for this development? We the users of course.

But who SHOULD pay for this development? ........... The people who need/want it of course, not the people who were perfectly happy with what they had and paid good money for!

We cannot continue to operate in the dark ages of computers, technology advances and so does the software.

Yes, it does, so as an example I refer back to Apple again, and as a Mac user you should appreciate what I'm saying here, Apple develop software, great software, the best IMHO, they tempt you with improved Operating Systems and Quality Hardware, and it works that way, people buy their products because they are better than the rest (IMO), but not once in my 17 years as an Apple user have I had any software disabled or any computers confiscated because they were offering an updated version/model.

There comes the point in time when you have to move on and switch off the old.

Why switch off the old, why not leave it running, thus keeping prospective customers happy, then tempt them into buying your new products because they are better?

In this instance, Mamut has made the decision for you and to be fair, they have given everyone concerned plenty of notice. They haven't just arbitrarily taken the decision and moved on, they have thought about it, the impact on the customer base and provided plenty of time for people to get used to the idea.

I beg to differ, Mamut certainly have NOT thought about the impact on the customer base, hence the numerous complaints on various forums.

Computers and the software they run don't go one for ever just as motor cars don't.

OK, so let them age with dignity, grow old & outdated, and eventually die from natural causes! DO NOT impose Euthanasia upon them!

There comes the time when it is uneconomic to continue to support something that is obsolete.

Good Point, excellent point actually ............ so stop supporting it, issue a patch to disable Online Confirmation, thus keeping customer base happy, then tempt your grateful customer base into buying your "Improved & Supported" software, simple business ethics my friend, not bully boy tactics.

At a reasonable price you can migrate.

Really? Define reasonable please? Maybe you migrated at a reasonable cost, but not everyone has a "reasonable" option. I for example run OSX 10.3 on an ageing but perfectly operational G4 at work, if I upgrade my OS to 10.4 as required by Mamut's Software, updating my imagesetter's drivers alone would cost me around £400.

Well if that's so bad that you want to stick in the dark ages stop complaining and let the rest of us move on.

Fine, go ahead, move on, but dark ages? MYOB is working perfectly, give me my patch (hell, I'd even pay for it) & leave me be & I'll make no fuss, but use bullyboy tactics/blackmail & I'll complain all day long, right up to the point of taking my business elsewhere.

Can you seriously not see what Mamut are doing here? Or are you on their payroll?

 

[Deleted member 116728]

For my part I have moved on and I am very happy with where I'm at with the software and service agreement from Mamut to move my business forward.

It appears to me that some of you have come into this thread without really looking at the history.

There is a response from Mamut (Pg 3), that clearly explains the circumstances that they find themselves in with regard to this and a lot of the comments against Mamut are unfair.

You cannot hold Mamut responsible for the decisions of MYOB.

As I understand it, it was MYOB who altered their software so that after MYOB version 13, without you the user knowing, the software needed activation before you could use it (same as Adobe and Quark). The Servers that MYOB put in place to accommodate this are being turned off by MYOB, not Mamut.

Mamut are not the bad guys here, MYOB are. MYOB are turning off the system and telling us POMS to take a hike. Mamut have no control over this.

Now take Mamut circumstances with regard to UK customers.

Mamut recognised there would be a whole load of pissed off MYOB user bunnies. Mamut decided to buy and develop the MYOB code and rename it so that it was under their brand name thus at least giving MYOB users a lifeline.

This goes on all the time. Think of Norton products that are now Symantec. Symantec come along and charge you for an upgrade but at a reasonable cost.

So instead of all you MYOB users arriving at work one day and finding your accounts system no longer works, Mamut have an alternative offer for you.

Mamut have contacted you and are saying that for a reasonable cost (just like Semantic and Norton), you can carry on with a transparent migration. The only real difference is that Mamut are stating from the outset that their business model requires each and every user to have a support plan in place.

Personal opinion is that this is a good thing.

You might not agree with my opinion but that's where I stand.

It's not fair to keep battering Mamut around the head for something that's beyond their control.

If you want to batter them about the service contract arrangement that's different.

But at least write about the correct issue.

 

[Spiny]

So, are you telling me that Mamut could not write a patch for MYOB Accounts to pacify their existing customer base?

 

[Deleted member 116728]

I don't know about such matters and I suspect MYOB would still hold the legal right to bounce all over Mamut with regard to the original MYOB Software License.

I don't know is the answer. Why not call Mamut and ask?

 

[KateCB]

Thats funny - why not call Mamut and ask. I think you work for them Bookeeper, or you are on retainer - call Mamut and ask..... its just SO funny.

MYOB are at fault - they should have provided a patch so that people who wanted to 'stay in the dark ages' could; we have the latest version, paid a lot of money for it as an SME, and it worked perfectly. There was no need to upgrade/change. I paid good money for it, it is mine, MYOB had no right to 'disable it' it is not theirs, its MINE.

Mamut wanted what felt like a years salary to change to what we had with MYOB, the wanted us to buy support for 2 seats - we are a small company with 2 users of accounting software who sit 10 feet apart - why we would we need 2 support licences? The cost was prohibitive for what was offered, and frankly the people at Mamut were so supercilious, thinking they had me, and that I would HAVE to pay their exhorbitent fees - they were wrong, I didn't, I bought Sage.

Sage was cheaper than Mamut, does more, is probably as complicated, I actually hate the program, and it hates me, however that aside, it does everything and more that the Mamut version offered does, at about 60% of the cost, and our accountant speaks Sage, so he is happy.

I am not FORCED into support, I don't have to buy it, I can upgrade to latest versions if I want to, or not.....

No, MYOB were wrong, but so are MAMUT, and no amount of their representatives trying to baffle us with bull on here will change any of that.

 

[Deleted member 116728]

I hate to be a killjoy but where software is concerned you NEVER own it, it's not YOURS just as it isn't MINE either, you pay a license fee for the right to use the application code on your hardware. You pay for what the license states.

I think you are talking PC version MYOB here. I've already stated I know nothing of the PC change.

My Apple Mac move to Account Edge Plus Network Edition was pennies compared to what I was facing going out and getting an alternative and so I am happy with what I now have.

I am not retained by Mamut, I just believe that people should be fair and correct with their comments.

P.S. Yet again Apple Mac proves to be the better buy. Pennies to change, not thousands of pounds. Typical costly Windows situation.

 

[KM-Tiger]

I hate to be a killjoy ...

Sorry, don't believe you.

but where software is concerned you NEVER own it, it's not YOURS just as it isn't MINE either, you pay a license fee for the right to use the application code on your hardware. You pay for what the license states.

Quite correct, you buy a licence to use software.

However, unless clearly stated to the contrary at the time of purchase, a reasonable person expects that licence to continue, not be arbitrarily withdrawn completely, though security updates and support may well come to an end.

For example, I bought a licence from Microsoft in 2000 to use Windows 2K. I'm still using it and intend to continue despite support being withdrawn in 4 days time on July 13th. I'm happy to accept the risk that I'm on my own if anything goes wrong. I do not expect Microsoft to connect to my computer and turn the OS off.

Whatever the fine print may say, I'm not surprised that business owners have an expectation that a supplier behave in a reasonable way. Otherwise they are in the same league as those photocopier companies that used to rip businesses off with their almost impossible to cancel contracts with impenetrable T&C's.

One of the strengths of a public forum such as this is that devious business practices can be exposed, and others can take up the cudgels to try and stamp them out.

 

[Deleted member 116728]

I'm not surprised that business owners have an expectation that a supplier behave in a reasonable way.

This is the very reason I have defended Mamut when most of this thread have blamed them for MYOB's misdeeds.