Moving Abroad With Work - Any Advice / Experience?

[BusterBloodvessel]

Hi All,

Hope you don't mind me posting this on here, I am hoping some of the collective could share some thoughts or experiences

I have been "sounded out" with work about whether i would be interested in relocating from the UK to Northern Spain (Zaragoza) to take on a new role within the group. This would be at marketing director level and actually a really exciting chance to launch some of our USA brands into the European market, certainly the kind of thing I'd like to get my teeth stuck into. It would be for a minimum of 12 months with the option to extend if possible. Salary wise I would be similar to today but with my accommodation and moving costs paid for.

As it stands, I'm 31, I rent a house (off my brother - I can get out of the rental at any time with no notice), have been single for the last year, and my only commitment is to my dog! It seems on the face of it like an amazing opportunity, and the thought of living in Spain (a country I've always loved) really appeals to me - I love the culture, the food and the way of life.

That said, I'm also hugely apprehensive. One thing I'm aware of is that you can't expect to go there and for it to be like a holiday all year round! The language barrier concerns me (I would LOVE to learn Spanish and have always wanted to, but realistically I'm not sure it's something I would be very good at!)....and I guess the biggest thing is the possibility of feeling lonely/isolated, and struggling to make new friends. I am worried that I could end up either borderline alcoholic sat in a spanish bar every night (maybe not such a bad thing!!) or sat in an apartment bored and just looking forward to my next trip home! I'm not the most outgoing of people in terms of actively going out "hunting" for new friends...I know some people would be straight in with joining the local yoga club or gym or whatever and meeting people that way and it's something I'd probably find quite difficult.

Has anyone done or been offered anything similar? What choice did you make, and if you moved, did you stay out there or come back? How did you find it all. Any thoughts from anyone would be hugely appreciated! As well as any pointers on potential pitfalls or things to be asking my employers at this stage.

Thanks in advance!

(P.S. there is a whole separate issue of what I would do with my business in the UK that I currently work on part time outside of my job but I'm ignoring that part of the decision for now!! )

 

[Darren_Ssc]

You'll need to learn Spanish, contrary to what people tell you, most Spanish people don't speak English, a lot don't even speak Spanish (not a version you'll recognise anyway).

And, if you don't already have friends there, don't expect any locals to fall over themselves to keep you company.

Housing can be dirt cheap or comparable with here but, unlike here, a good neighbourhood doesn't always mean you get good neighbours. So expect to move around a bit.

Also cost of living isn't as cheap as it used to be unless you smoke and drink a lot, then maybe it is?

On the plus side, you like dogs so that's gonna be useful.

 

[Jeff FV]

Can’t really help with much, except share my experiences of learning Spanish.

A year ago, shortly before our holiday (what are they again!!) to Spain, I decided I was fed up of being the embarrassing Brit abroad and decided to learn a little of the language. I was 50 years old, and had just scrapped an O level in French years ago - I.e. I would not say I was a natural when it came to learning languages!

I began By using Duo Lingo - a free app for your phone - a good place to start, and good for vocabulary building, but not enough on its own.

Having made a start, and having had a couple of days break in Girona (a northern Spanish city I highly recommend visiting) I vowed to continue with my Spanish. I did some research and ended up buying “Spanish Uncovered” and have been working my way through that. (I think I bought it in a Black Friday deal, quite heavily discounted.)

I have also been having a weekly Spanish lesson with a tutor in Mexico, on the iTalki platform. I pay $7 for a 30 min lesson via Skype and this has been really helpful for my listening and speaking skills, as well as my general ability in the language. If you want, I am more than happy to let you know who my tutor is, and I highly recommend him.

I have also begun to read some Spanish books, - written for those learning the language- this is a great way to consolidate and improve your language skills. However, I wouldn’t have reached the stage of being able to read these books if I hadn’t done the self-study course mentioned above.

I would now cite learning Spanish as a hobby, and I am really enjoying it. May, one day, go and live there, however probably more likely to go for extended (say 2 months) stays when semi-retirement eventually beckons.

For info, in order of difficulty, from easiest to hardest, I would rank the following as thus:

Reading Spanish
Writing Spanish
Speaking Spanish
Listening Spanish (el gente hablan muy rapido!)

 

[MBE2017]

I moved to Sweden many years ago for two years for a previous employer. I was a workaholic at the time, and due to the costs concerned I only took the job on the basis they bought myself an apartment in my name, best signing on bonus I ever received. This was 35+ years ago, but it set myself up in my twenties.

The lingo was not such a problem, leaving the georgeous co workers alone was.

 

[Opinion87]

el gente hablan muy rapido!

This!

 

[Darren_Ssc]

This!

Indeed, you can get to a stage where you can say what you need to say but the reply you get in return will be at a speed of 500% faster than your brain can process.

I'd echo Jeff's recomendation of duolingo to give you a bit of start and the confidence to actually use the odd few words but there is no substitute for one to one tuition from a native.

 

[Mitch3473]

Having lived there for 7 years I can only agree with Darren.

 

[The Byre]

Just go and stop moaning! Either that or wonder for the rest of your life would have happened if . . .

Your employer offered you this opportunity for a reason - and if you turn them down, they will think twice before making the mistake of offering you another opportunity. The last time I offered someone an opportunity like that, she turned it down and she was out of the company within a couple of years.

"Lack of commitment!"

 

[Socio South West]

Fast forward 50 years... there you are sitting in the high backed chair in the old folks home... Will you be sitting there thinking ..
a) The move to Spain was one of the best things I ever did in my life
b) That move to Spain was a disaster, but good experience
c) I wonder what would have happened if I had taken that job in Spain

The current situation excepted, links to the UK are pretty strong and will remain so after Brexit is finally completed. Life is about experiences - go for it, but don't look back and regret.... look for the positives in it, even if it goes t*ts up.

 

[Opinion87]

I have zero regrets.

 

[Chris Ashdown]

Tell us more about this group of companies, are they all working on the same market or is the one in Spain doing something totally different, in some groups they made be made up of all different industries just look at Virgin

It makes a lot of difference if they are a different industry all you will be doing is using their facilities and as you say your not outgoing it could be a very lonely experience

Whilst they offer a 12 month contract there will most likely not a job to come back to if it does not work out

Advice would be to check out the office and area at company expense before you make up your mind, also there are companies who teach crash courses in foreign languages over a matter of weeks and you would also need some help in understanding the contract laws in Spain

 

[Mitch3473]

Just go and stop moaning! Either that or wonder for the rest of your life would have happened if . . .

Your employer offered you this opportunity for a reason - and if you turn them down, they will think twice before making the mistake of offering you another opportunity. The last time I offered someone an opportunity like that, she turned it down and she was out of the company within a couple of years.

"Lack of commitment!"

and you might meet the Senorita of your dreams

 

[Darren_Ssc]

and you might meet the Senorita of your dreams

Not likely.

 

[sminter1st]

Now is the best time to go, when you have no family to uproot with you. On your deathbed regrets are usually of things you didnt do, not what you did, so go for it. Whatever happens it will be a great learning experience about yourself personally and career-wise. I've worked in Greece and Taiwan and regret nothing, even though it's not all sunshine and roses, and definitely not like being on holiday all year, although tourists/people home in the UK may believe it is.

A quick google shows there is an expat community out there in that area, not only from the UK, so there should be social opportunities while you are improving your Spanish.

A thumbs up from me for Duolingo as well.

 

[Gfplux]

I live in Luxembourg. I have been retired for a long time.
You should go to Spain.
When I was close to your age I moved from a job in Leicester to one in London.
Wow, I had thought Leicester was the centre of the world. I found that London was a different world. It was the best thing I did.
I have since travelled the world. It’s been a bumpy ride but without that first move out of my comfort zone I would not have been able to earn enough to retire at 52 and live in a multi international country.
Go for it, go for it.

 

[chickenlady]

My other half has just come back from 5 years based in France (but working all over the world) in an English-speaking office on secondment. He was fortunate that there were people from all over the world based in the same office (hence English speaking). There were good reasons why I did not go, but if circumstances had been different, I would have been off like a shot. Some people had their families with them, others did not. There was an active social life to be had if you wanted it with his work mates. Nobody knows you so you can do whatever you like! His French improved in that he could read a menu and order from it but his biggest regret is not learning more.
The tax arrangements were a bit complicated - make sure your employer knows what they are doing and what your exact status will be - he could only come home or work in the UK for a very limited time each year - but do go. If you are planning to take the dog, the pet passport things are changing and you have to plan quite a way in advance.

 

[billybob99]

Anywhere outside the UK is good, can't get any worse.

 

[The Byre]

Anywhere outside the UK is good, can't get any worse.

Nothing is so bad that it can't get worse!

1. The depression has not yet started.
2. The C19 screw-ups are far from over!
3. All that public debt!
4. Stock market bubble!
5. If you think they made a total Handcock of C19, just wait 'till you see what they'll do with Brexit!

On the up-side, our eldest granddaughter passed all her A-Levels with straight-As in five subjects after sitting the exams at the usual time and in the usual place. That was in Berlin.

 

[Mitch3473]

Anywhere outside the UK is good, can't get any worse.

You'd be surprised at the amount of people that say that. As they say, the grass is always greener on the other side, well it aint. But it's great finding it out....

 

[paulears]

I'm towards the end of my career now, and I always avoided working abroad until I got to 50 and joined the band I'm in. I've now worked in amazing places and the language thing, that I always used as the 'excuse' really doesn't hold water.

If the management think you'll do well - just go! What happens if it goes wrong, you come home - but I bet you won't! Very best wishes on this - you're young enough and detached enough to give it a good shot.

 

[BusterBloodvessel]

Thanks everyone and apologies for the slow replies! Can’t really argue with any of what’s been said can I! I think if I looked back in 10 or 20 years and I was still living in the same town and drinking in the same pub I’d kick myself. Incidentally I had a ‘similar’ experience 10 years ago in one of my first jobs - twice, actually! Once my friends were travelling and road tripping across America for 6 weeks (something I’ve always wanted to do) and I had the chance and the money from a small inheritance to join them. Second time my band were offered a chance to play approximately 20 gigs across America over the course of a month. On both occasions I didn’t go as my then boss wouldn’t give me the time off work and I decided to stay stuck in a low paid parts advisor job. I have regretted both on so many occasions it’s unreal!

I’ve had a further conversation with work and given them the “yes, I’m definitely interested” and had a further conversation about what I’d be looking for and what concerns id have. It’s now with them putting a more detailed proposal together and we’ll take it from there. One thing i have asked them to consider is the option after 12 or 18 months, once the team is in place and the project up and running, to return to the UK if Spain doesn’t suit me, But keeping the same role with regular visits back over there and they seem quite open to that.

Watch this space....!

 

[Mitch3473]

A mate of mine from years ago was a right nutcase and spent his life making nuts and drinking....his firm got taken over and his boss asked if wanted to go to the States to work in the parent company...he, his girlfriend and young son went as they had nothing to loose. A while ago he came back for a few weeks and I got talking to him in the pub....the same pub with the same faces doing the same things that we drank in years ago. He now has his own screw making factory on the US/Canada borders, lives on a ranch and now makes screws for NASA quicker and better than the Americans can. For an idiot, he turned out successful. If he didn't go in the first place he'd probably be inside on HMs pleasure.

 

[The Byre]

I’ve had a further conversation with work and given them the “yes,

Start the Duo Lingo lessons now! (My wife is learning Spanish with Duo Lingo right now, so perhaps we'll see you down there!)

 

[Jeff FV]

Start the Duo Lingo lessons now! (My wife is learning Spanish with Duo Lingo right now, so perhaps we'll see you down there!)

Agree with this, but also recommend you start some lessons via iTalki
https://www.italki.com/

Happy to recommend my Spanish teacher - I pay $7 for a 30 min Skype lesson. My tutor is really good, patient, funny, helpful. He also speaks perfect English, which helps!

Happy to just give you the name of my tutor, but if you sign up to iTalki on my recommendation (that’s joining iTalki, you don’t have to pick my teacher) we both get $10 of credit.

 

[gpietersz]

From having lived in two countries, and seen communities from each in the other, a few dangers to watch out for:

1. Do not enter into major commitments (like buying property, for example) until you have got to know the country.
2. Make friends with locals, you will get to know the place faster and better.
3. If there is a British community where you are going, distrust it, especially if they try to sell you things, or persuade you t invest in something. At best you will be overcharged, at worst you will fall victim to affinity fraud.

 

[Spur Support Services]

I used to work in a Spanish group and some of our employees went on secondment and had a great time.
Yes, you do need to learn the language, especially if you are dealing with smaller businesses, but I learnt some Spanish and to be honest, I think its a beautiful language and seemed much more logical than our own.

If you are a cyclist or motorcyclist, then omg, just go.
Re lonely isolated... well, that's up to you.
If you feel lonely and isolated in the UK, then it's likely that your lifestyle choices here are contributing to that.
Your lifestyle choices in Spain will similarly effect how lonely and isolated you feel there.
For me, I caved when I moved down South to Somerset from Yorkshire.
So, I've never really experienced loneliness or isolation, because I chose to make myself part of active groups.

But on a more serious note, ensure you understand the tax aspects. A 12 month contract is unlikely to break UK tax residency rules, which may have implications for UK tax.
However, you are clearly going to be working in Spain and will also be subject to Spanish tax.
UK and Spanish NIC/Social Security also needs to be considered.
Ask your employers if they will pay for you to get tax advice from a UK Tax Adviser and from a Spanish Tax Adviser, as part of your deal.
And in Spain everyone has to complete tax returns (Dec YE), so again try to get the accounting fees for that included in your package.
Ensure that you know whether your accommodation and moving costs will be a taxable benefit for Spanish tax purposes and whether that changes depending on the length of your assignment.

I hope this helps.
Definitely go, but go with your eyes open and as much information as possible, so that you don't feel aggrieved when some tax related complexity rears its ugly head

 

[Newchodge]

Can’t really help with much, except share my experiences of learning Spanish.

A year ago, shortly before our holiday (what are they again!!) to Spain, I decided I was fed up of being the embarrassing Brit abroad and decided to learn a little of the language. I was 50 years old, and had just scrapped an O level in French years ago - I.e. I would not say I was a natural when it came to learning languages!

I began By using Duo Lingo - a free app for your phone - a good place to start, and good for vocabulary building, but not enough on its own.

Having made a start, and having had a couple of days break in Girona (a northern Spanish city I highly recommend visiting) I vowed to continue with my Spanish. I did some research and ended up buying “Spanish Uncovered” and have been working my way through that. (I think I bought it in a Black Friday deal, quite heavily discounted.)

I have also been having a weekly Spanish lesson with a tutor in Mexico, on the iTalki platform. I pay $7 for a 30 min lesson via Skype and this has been really helpful for my listening and speaking skills, as well as my general ability in the language. If you want, I am more than happy to let you know who my tutor is, and I highly recommend him.

I have also begun to read some Spanish books, - written for those learning the language- this is a great way to consolidate and improve your language skills. However, I wouldn’t have reached the stage of being able to read these books if I hadn’t done the self-study course mentioned above.

I would now cite learning Spanish as a hobby, and I am really enjoying it. May, one day, go and live there, however probably more likely to go for extended (say 2 months) stays when semi-retirement eventually beckons.

For info, in order of difficulty, from easiest to hardest, I would rank the following as thus:

Reading Spanish
Writing Spanish
Speaking Spanish
Listening Spanish (el gente hablan muy rapido!)

todo el mundo habla muy rapido!

I learnt Spanish at school, in the 6th form. I year to O level, 1 year to A level, 50 odd years ago. When I am in Spain I am frequently asked what part of Spain I am from.

I have also learnt French and German. Spanish is by far the easiest. My husband is currently usine duo lingua which he is enjoying but it annoys me - a lot of it is just wrong, for example: when a spaniard would say voy a la tienda, it teaches: Yo voy a la tienda. However if you are living there and meeting Spanish people, you will pick it up quickly. The spanish are lovely people. If you make an effort, they will make an effort. Go for it.