Motor dealers in trouble...

What I would say is decide what car you want (which isn't easy)

When it's time to change my car I can spend six months reviewing the market and deciding what I want and then I end up buying something completely the opposite at the last minute.

A few years ago I wanted a Porsche Cayenne and went to a dealer to look at a second hand one, decided that it was too big and bought the Porsche Boxster that was parked next to it and which couldn't have been more different from what I was supposed to be after.
 
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Colin Beveridge

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Mar 12, 2019
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When it's time to change my car I can spend six months reviewing the market and deciding what I want and then I end up buying something completely the opposite at the last minute.

A few years ago I wanted a Porsche Cayenne and went to a dealer to look at a second hand one, decided that it was too big and bought the Porsche Boxster that was parked next to it and which couldn't have been more different from what I was supposed to be after.


That's what I do too! Not with cars, just everything else, there's too much choice and information out there! I actually hate buying things now, trying to buy a new mobile phone just now, go on amazon and there are 18000 results... Someone needs to create a website that just sells 3 of each 'product' and cheap one, mid range and expensive. I'd love that.
 
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You really believe you cannot be paid commission on 0% interest? The cost of the goods are simply adjusted.

0% finance is a subsidy paid by DFS to the funder

Yes, cost of goods are adjusted, it’s effectively a form of discount

They don’t receive commission on it (what would be the point if they are paying for it?)
 
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Colin Beveridge

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Mar 12, 2019
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You really believe you cannot be paid commission on 0% interest? The cost of the goods are simply adjusted.

I would disagree with that, the cost of the goods are the cost whether you take credit or not. We could do interest free credit on balances up to £4000 and it would cost us £140 or there about. Its just a tool to try and sell more units. DFS would sell a lot less couches if they didn't offer credit, interest free or not. It's the competitive nature of retail that they are doing interest free. My last mountain bike I bought cost £2300, I stuck £1000 down and took the rest interest free as they offered it. The shop would have to pay a subsidy to do the credit. DFS may have their own finance company but even then it will cost them money to lend it for nothing when they could be investing it.
 
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MBE2017

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  • Feb 16, 2017
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    Cost of goods in law has to be the same whether bought cash or on finance, otherwise the 0% finance would not legally be 0%.

    That doesn’t mean the selling cost is not adjusted, finance helps increase sales, most salespeople are rewarded on sales, the average ticket price increases, either way a commission is made.

    Technically the funds are zero percent, but no-one lends money for free in the real world.
     
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    For a business forum, there seems to be an overall lack of awareness of (1) how retail finance works and (2) how manufacturing margins work.

    (1) There are two extremes in retail finance and most schemes are somewhere between the two. At one end you have the regular outside finance and the retailer gets a commission. He/she can, of course, give that commission to the customer (i.e. subsidise the credit) if there is enough margin or if they are desperate to move product.

    At the other end, the credit is supplied by a company owned by the retailer (or sometimes the manufacturer) and very often, the goods are cheap and of low value and the credit is 0%. Typical here is really nasty furniture and shoddy white goods and laptops. The finance company gives the consumer two years to pay at 0%, but the contract defaults to 25% p.a. over four years if payment is not made in full before the two years are up. The trick here is that the finance company makes it as difficult as possible for the consumer to effect payment. There will be no telephone contact possible and the registered address changes about once a year. The retail outlet, of course, denies all knowledge or responsibility for the finance agreement. The less savvy customer can end up paying about two-and-a-half times the original price for goods that were probably close to worthless in the first place!

    (2) There is usually a huge gross margin on mass-produced products. There has to be! We were talking about cars - it costs at least one billion dollars to get that first car off the production line! Sometimes more, if it is a totally new model designed from the ground up.

    There are also huge marketing and follow-up costs, which can cost almost as much as making the thing in the first place - recalls, advertising, legal and technical paperwork, dealer margin and support, transport, warranty claims, getting caught cheating emissions figures, - 1001 things the customer seldom thinks about.

    And each variation (EU model, Japanese model, US model, left-hand-drive, right-hand-drive, Diesel, petrol, automatic, manual, etc., etc., etc.) costs millions extra. The Honda Accord had to be offered in Europe in about eight basic models. Tech. documentation had to be made in 24 languages and spare parts stored in dozens of warehouses across Europe. All that crazy duplication of effort costs millions and millions. Honda pulled the plug on the slow-moving Accord across Europe and concentrated on sub-compacts and SUVs. In the US, Honda offers the fast-selling Accord at just $25k RRP with two engine types and that's about it. No manual, no RHD and just one set of documentation. A $25k Accord in the US is profitable. The £30k Accord in the UK was not!

    The car dealers may (and are!) be squeezed until they burst, but the manufacturers are steadily reducing model options to cut costs and get profits back up to where they need to be. They are also duplicating cars and their parts across marques - VW has four basic car platforms that are spun-out into about 130 marques and models: the Golf and the Passat rear their heads in dozens of guises!

    Put chunky wheels and suspension on a Golf and it becomes a Toe-Rag!
     
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    Cost of goods in law has to be the same whether bought cash or on finance, otherwise the 0% finance would not legally be 0%.

    That doesn’t mean the selling cost is not adjusted, finance helps increase sales, most salespeople are rewarded on sales, the average ticket price increases, either way a commission is made.

    Technically the funds are zero percent, but no-one lends money for free in the real world.

    I think most people understand - when pushed - that anything added for 'free' is in reality another form of discount (though it os often nice to ignore the fact to get a warm, cuddly feeling).

    Many industries are similar, people think retailers like DFS sell furniture, in reality they use furniture to sell finance.

    This, however isn't the case. They use free finance to sweeten the deal.
     
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    At the other end, the credit is supplied by a company owned by the retailer (or sometimes the manufacturer) and very often, the goods are cheap and of low value and the credit is 0%. Typical here is really nasty furniture and shoddy white goods and laptops. The finance company gives the consumer two years to pay at 0%, but the contract defaults to 25% p.a. over four years if payment is not made in full before the two years are up. The trick here is that the finance company makes it as difficult as possible for the consumer to effect payment. There will be no telephone contact possible and the registered address changes about once a year. The retail outlet, of course, denies all knowledge or responsibility for the finance agreement. The less savvy customer can end up paying about two-and-a-half times the original price for goods that were probably close to worthless in the first place!

    (

    I think you are living way back in the murky past

    The FCA is all over this sort of stuff (which hasn't been mainstream for at least a decade )

    In most cases, particularly with a business of the scale of DFS, everything is exactly what it claims to be. Yes, there will be penalties for non payment - you will only incur these if you miss payments.
     
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    I think you are living way back in the murky past

    The FCA is all over this sort of stuff (which hasn't been mainstream for at least a decade )
    Murky past - maybe, but I was citing the extreme. In most EU countries and in most US states, interest rates for anything and under all circumstances must not exceed 8-12% above the rates charged by retail banking. In Germany, all penalties (e.g. overdraft surcharges) are verboten and the banks must give due warning of any inability to honour cheques, standing orders, etc. and give the customer time to make other arrangements.
     
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    Murky past - maybe, but I was citing the extreme. In most EU countries and in most US states, interest rates for anything and under all circumstances must not exceed 8-12% above the rates charged by retail banking. In Germany, all penalties (e.g. overdraft surcharges) are verboten and the banks must give due warning of any inability to honour cheques, standing orders, etc. and give the customer time to make other arrangements.

    Fortunately this is the UK business forum.
     
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    Maxwell83

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  • Aug 4, 2012
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    For those of you who think that 0% finance is somehow magically cheaper, check this out -


    His whole argument is based on the premise that the dealer is giving 0% finance but refusing to discount the car to keep his margin up. He has to do this to subsidise the hit he takes on the 0% finance. It then argues that the same dealer would give you the car cheaper if you were paying cash/outside finance... If that ever actually worked in the UK then it would be wise, but it doesn't.

    To be fair to the video, its based on Australia's market and I don't know how things work there. But I've spent my whole life buying cars for cash and others here in the UK can attest - dealers here are NOT giving any discounts for cash purchases that they are not also giving to finance purchasers. Again, most are giving an extra 'dealer contribution' when you DO take finance.

    So the whole video is pointless to a UK consumer. I got £10k off my car cash when I could have had £13k off with finance because of the contribution. The APR would have been 3.4% IIRC. That means I could have financed about £30k of it over 3 yrs and still been about £1k better off even after the interest.

    I've seen all the arguments about how the cars are overpriced to offset the cheap finance etc., but they all miss the simple point that they don't get any cheaper when you pay cash. So over here, the cash buyer is offsetting the finance buyers' low rate!!
     
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    His main point (and mine!) is that the punter is being 'edged' into buying a turkey at 0%. when they would rather have had something else.

    The 'hidden' cost is not really hidden at all - the punter is buying something that they otherwise would not have bought. The punter is standing in a showroom that they otherwise would have avoided because that brand of car ain't selling. The 0% offer has done its job!

    Yes, he speaks about rebates for cash that are less likely/possible in the UK, but I too buy my cars for cash and if you are looking at a turkey, the rebates come thick and fast.

    And right now, it ain't just cars - many businesses are hurting and someone out there needs my cash to keep afloat!
     
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    Maxwell83

    Free Member
  • Aug 4, 2012
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    His main point (and mine!) is that the punter is being 'edged' into buying a turkey at 0%. when they would rather have had something else.

    That I agree with - the savvy seller can 'lead' a customer to what he wants to sell, rather than what the customer wants to buy. Buyers ought to have some discipline.

    Personally, I have never chosen my car after going to a showroom/based on what is available (although many do). I decide on the car before I even start looking. I have flown to Ireland and Scotland (twice) in the past to get the exact car I am looking for, you could call me a more discerning buyer. :D
     
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