Min Wage

[BizGurl]

Hi all,

I've heard this long running issue over the national minimum wage, and how it effects business, especially small businesses.

Understandably, businesses complain about this, and are against wage increases and so on. My mother runs a business and she too has to pay staff. Though having a minimum wage is a strain on the business, she doesn't pay them grudgingly....After all, why should someone not have the right to a minimum wage, when they too have living costs such as rent/mortgage/food/bills/children/leisure etc...

I also know that anyone currently working in this economic mess is damn well lucky to have a job, and so the 'message' is to basically "shut up and put up, at least you have a job", but don't people still deserve at least a basic level of income to live?

If given the choice, would you pay someone less or even half of the minimum wage, and expect them to do a good job?

 

[mattrepreneur]

I think having a minimum wage is almost a necessity in the sense that the people you're paying have their liabilities such as rent/mortgage, food/living costs etc. Given the option, I'm sure most businesses would opt to pay a lower wage - after all, a business is out to earn as much profit as possible and a saving in wages would be beneficial to them.

But you have to think of the bigger picture, the butterly effect if you like - if you abolish a minimum wage just to save on running costs of a business, you'd be affecting the lives of millions and how long would it be before the decision to remove a minimum wage bit the businesses on the arse (excuse the expression).

If I were to own a business, I'd ensure all staff are paid upwards of minimum wage (motivation etc.) and would do it in full awareness that whilst I might be paying an extra few quid than necessary for my staff, I'd be making the time and effort they put in worthwhile.

I recently got a job working for a leader in IT and get paid £7.00 an hour, I'm lucky and damn well know it but it motivates me to work that bit harder knowing that I'm getting paid more than many other people in the world who would do anything to get in to the position I'm in. I think it's important for businesses to understand that 'you get what you pay for' in the sense that if you're willing to pay an employee over the odds for the work they put in, you're going to get a lot more out of it in terms of effort and self-motivation.

Just my two cents.

 

[MASSEY]

in terms of using minimum wage and mortgage in the same sentance is

But for the point of your lucky to have a job so shut up and put up, i really hate that aspect, if i ever had to work for a company like that it would really bug me,

to get the best out of people your better off paying them at least 7 quid an hour, like matt says,

any english person that settles for min wage is either very low iq or being walked over,

But maybe its that attitude why we have so many polish working in the uk.

 

[BizGurl]

in terms of using minimum wage and mortgage in the same sentance is

Lol

 

[mattrepreneur]

Considering the 'economic climate' that gets talked about so often, it's become a normality to accept jobs for minimum wage, I think it's terrible but hey, what do I know...

McDonalds is one hell of a prime example - a friend who is the same age, has the same skill set and same motivation etc. works for them whereas I work for a technical helpdesk - sure, working in McDonalds is anything but technical but he gets on par with the minimum wage, yet I'm earning almost double what he gets...a multi-million, international fast food chain that pays staff a measly minimum wage...sorry Maccies but you can shove your chicken nuggets where the sun don't shine.

I think the system needs to be more versatile, I think it should vary depending on several factors including the area of work (technical, non-technical) and should take in to account the businesses financial situation - how can a business like McDonalds give staff less money than working in a corner shop, for instance.

Until we reach a time where such system is implemented, people will continue to be dragged along by businesses and those businesses will fight to have the wage lowered or abolished - something which in my eyes would be extremely detrimental to society.

 

[BizGurl]

Who said McDonalds wasn't technical? Have you not seen them fryers that they use? ...Just kidding...

I've never understood the low McDonalds wages....They make giganormic amounts of money yet 'slave' their staff. It may look like just flipping burgers...but I've seen the staff under enormous time pressure, with huge queues and managers watching them but doing nothing themselves. I personally think McDonalds staff deserve to paid much more....maybe explains the terrible customer service.

On a serious note, I agree with what you said...maybe wage related to lenghth of service/loyalty...

 

[mattrepreneur]

You're right about McDonalds - the amount of work my friend puts in...imagine trying to cook for 20 people all at once within like 3 mins...yeah it might be as simple as putting the fries in the frier and flipping some burgers but to do that for 8 hours a day and get paid peanuts in relation to the stress and pressure...well I take my hat off and give them my full appreciation.

I think its disgusting, McDonalds is just one of the prime examples but I mean the money they rake in is a farcry from what employees are paid. I mean one extra value meal pretty much equals what one of the workers would be paid per hour...that says it all really.

And yeah, having a standard minimum wage just won't work in years to come, they'll have to adapt it in some manner and I think the best way would be by business income (like a percent of the total income = how much each employee is paid by minimum). That way it would be aligned with the financial situation of the company thus having a positive effect on cash flow, right?

Come on government...wake up, we're in 2010!

 

[JoyDivision]

My biggest gripe of McDonalds is the quality of the staff. It is almost expected that they hire crap staff all the time and sometimes employ good ones only for them to leave after a few weeks. If McDonalds paid £10 an hour people will be desperate to work there, the managers can then select staff from a massive list of candidates and hopefully the staff will stay.

Stagecoach in Manchester pay their bus drivers a lot, I am not sure the exact figure but I am sure I have seen £12-£15 an hour advertised. It is a crap job but it means they can get good quality drivers who above all stay with the company for many years.

I used to have a part time job in Curry's and then they stopped comminsion the result is most the good quality employees including me left. How can they expect staff to know everything from TCP/IP to 1080p all for £6 an hour? And then people wonder why they get some bad advice in such shops!

If you have no skills then sadly these days working hard for very little pay is the only way. I think its wrong.

 

[mattrepreneur]

I think you're right about the quality of staff but it's not true in all cases...I keep referring to my friend but I know the situation that he's in. Basically, he was looking for work and applied at a bunch of places including McDonalds and unfortunately, out of the places he applied to, McD were the only ones to accept him - he motivates himself to work because at the end of the effort is some money - not a whole lot but its as much as he can get currently.

He works as hard as he would in a better job with better prospects and better pay, yet gets treated like something someone's trodden in simply because it's 'acceptable' thanks to the scheme put in place by the government.

I hope it's changed in the future, and hopefully in the not too distant.

 

[sellickbhoy]

hey This is a wonderful opinion. The things mentioned are unanimous and needs to be appreciated by everyone. i hav etaken a lot of info from it regarding business and finance .
adam

trying to get your post count up by copying and pasting the same reply huh?

what are you gonna spam us with?

 

the minimum wage is a tough one,i think we need it to stop people like McDonalds ext from exploiting there staff more than they do,but i always think you pay for what you get and if you begrudge paying staff a living wage they will begrudge working for you .
I know as a small business how hard it is to find the money, but we always pay as much as we can afford and try hard to be good to our staff as a rule if you treat people well you get the same back.
as for sliding scales of minimum pay, related to jobs who is to say who is more valuble to society ?

 

[BizGurl]

True....nurses and hospital support staff are in my opinion much more valuable then say, a paralegal...(most of the advice they give you can get it out of a book), yet they get peanuts of a salary...It always seems to be the people who do the 'essential jobs' like cleaning/caring etc that get paid the worst/lowest. Fair enough, it may be 'unskilled' (even though they are labourious/physical) so to speak, but its a job that is absolutely needed and should therefore be renumerated as such...

But employers take people on for next to nothing (even some of those that can afford to pay better) and expect them to do a top job. So what if there is a lot of demand of the role? People still need to eat etc...

I think that level of skill only plays a part to a certain degree though...for example, even for junior design jobs...paying a measly £10k....yet the applicant is required to have at least 2yrs real experience and a hnd/degree...how is all this experience/qualifications reflected in such a salary? It's a rip off.

 

[AdamJ]

True....nurses and hospital support staff are in my opinion much more valuable then say, a paralegal...(most of the advice they give you can get it out of a book), yet they get peanuts of a salary...It always seems to be the people who do the 'essential jobs' like cleaning/caring etc that get paid the worst/lowest. Fair enough, it may be 'unskilled' (even though they are labourious/physical) so to speak, but its a job that is absolutely needed and should therefore be renumerated as such...

Don't start me off on the utter nonsense that is the 'essential worker' tag applied to nurses and teachers, usually by themselves or by politicians pandering to them. Workers are essential, full stop, no matter what they do. Nurses are no good if a truck driver doesn't supply the pharmaceuticals, or the petrol station cashier doesn't turn up to sell the petrol, or the council bin men take the nurses' rubbish from their houses, or the road workers fix the damaged roads, etc. etc. We are all interdependent and to single one group out as 'essential' as our glorious leaders so often do is meaningless. Nobody likes lawyers, but we need them. Nobody likes HR people, but they make large businesses work. Nobody likes health and safety people but they're suddenly very keen on health and safety if its their wife or mother who comes home with a knackered back and can't work again. We can't pick a particular group out as being 'more essential' and treat them differently.

 

[BizGurl]

Yes most jobs are essential to a certain degree...what I'm saying is that some jobs are more so....I get your point totally....every job/sector has a kind of knock on effect to other sectors at some point....but what I'm saying is that when it comes down to it...people cant actually live without certain jobs being done

 

[AdamJ]

Yes most jobs are essential to a certain degree...what I'm saying is that some jobs are more so....I get your point totally....every job/sector has a kind of knock on effect to other sectors at some point....but what I'm saying is that when it comes down to it...people cant actually live without certain jobs being done

That's the bit I disagree with. Nurses can't do their job if large chunks of society don't do theirs. They are no more essential than thousands of other jobs out there.

If nurses or teachers took a month off right now, I could live and touch wood probably wouldn't even notice. If farmers, or the supermarket shelf-fillers, or the elecy supply company people, or truck drivers, etc. took a month off the country would grind to a halt, people would be hungry and cold and probably rioting would break out! Who is most essential to the largest number of people for the majority of the time?

Of course Nurses, teachers, etc. are important and provide a vital role, but they are no more essential than anyone else and should not be held up as a separate group and wages certainly should not be artificially inflated for them.

 

[BizGurl]

What I was saying about nurses/cleaners etc is that their pay should be level with other jobs...even if they are more essential then some other jobs...there pay is still lower...don't get me wrong I don't...the average graduate salary is around the 24-26k mark, yet for nurses/teachers it lower than this? why? For most graduates, their salaries will increase fairly well over the years... yet for some jobs (such as nurses/allied health care staff etc) ramain roughly the same, or increase only slightly... whether public or private sector, Pay needs to be more fairer across the board... reading your post, I do actually agree with the points you made especially about stores running out of essential food etc....But at the same time, I wouldn't like for someone I know to fall i'll, and theres no-one to care for them/treat them!

 

[benjamin_c]

in an ideal world everyone would get paid lots but the money has to come from somewhere, and for nurses to be paid more the public will pay more tax, most people would agree that nurses should be paid more, but more people will object to paying more tax.

 

[BizGurl]

There would be more than enough to pay for essential roles in the NHS and other government organisations, but they spend it on crap, and make up all these 'civil service' jobs that to be honest, we could all do without!

There is actually enough money going around the system to pay people properly but as usual, the greedy bosses up at 'the top' think they know what is best, and besides they want their hundreds of thousands of bonuses! In an ideal world, the government would get real, wake up and start behaving like a government should...wishful thinking. Anyway I'm going to stop moaning about it now!

 

[Orangerascal]

Who said McDonalds wasn't technical? Have you not seen them fryers that they use? ...Just kidding...

I've never understood the low McDonalds wages....They make giganormic amounts of money yet 'slave' their staff. It may look like just flipping burgers...but I've seen the staff under enormous time pressure, with huge queues and managers watching them but doing nothing themselves. I personally think McDonalds staff deserve to paid much more....maybe explains the terrible customer service.

On a serious note, I agree with what you said...maybe wage related to lenghth of service/loyalty...

It's because they slave their staff that they make profits .

On a side note: I think Mcdonalds has a great business model. It offers jobs to the uneducated and the company provides ample room for growth for the 10% of people willing to stick it out the first 3 crappy years of working in the food service industry. Managers and Deputy managers wages are competitive. For someone with no education it's either working at mcdonalds or joining the military. Both are equally abysmal in my point of view.

 

[KateCB]

I think we are focusing too much on McDonalds and less on the small business - if you apply the minimum wage rules, there are different ones for ages and for skill sets - there is a 'trainee' or development rate - this at one stage meant that our part time cleaner aged 35 was actually 'entitled' to more than our trainee accounts tech......makes a mockery of train to gain! Our cleaner is essential to us, we don't have time to do what she does, hence us employing her, but to pay top minimum wage for services that don't take great skill (Washing up) or education (Vacuum and dust) seems overkill!

 

[KateCB]

For someone with no education it's either working at mcdonalds or joining the military. Both are equally abysmal in my point of view.

My elder brother failed his 11+ in 1963 - he joined the RAF. He took two degrees ( a BA and a Bsc), a masters degree and a Phd whilst serving, his engineering qualifications too; he worked all over the world, retired at age 55 with a VERY nice sum in the bank, both daughters privately educated, rank of 2 star general and now earns more a month through consultancy in his field than I will earn this year.....abysmal?

Yes he was poorly educated when he joined up, but obviously not stupid as he proved - I bet there are thousands like that, so its a matter of choice in the end. Depends on what you do when you go in I guess; waste the time or make use of it, and i think that applies to us all - if you WANT to move forward, get educated - there are college courses available free or low cost, so no excuses!

Nothing to do with minium wage sadly - sorry! Back to topic now

 

[Orangerascal]

My elder brother failed his 11+ in 1963 - he joined the RAF. He took two degrees ( a BA and a Bsc), a masters degree and a Phd whilst serving, his engineering qualifications too; he worked all over the world, retired at age 55 with a VERY nice sum in the bank, both daughters privately educated, rank of 2 star general and now earns more a month through consultancy in his field than I will earn this year.....abysmal?

Yes he was poorly educated when he joined up, but obviously not stupid as he proved - I bet there are thousands like that, so its a matter of choice in the end. Depends on what you do when you go in I guess; waste the time or make use of it, and i think that applies to us all - if you WANT to move forward, get educated - there are college courses available free or low cost, so no excuses!

Nothing to do with minium wage sadly - sorry! Back to topic now

derail:

Sorry you misunderstand ... by abysmal I meant that there is a pretty good chance that you will be seeing a war. I know a few people on officer tracks that sadly are stationed in afghanistan and it's unfortunate that some people have to play russian roullete to receive an education.

Lastly college at least in london is very competitive and 1/3 of all applicants this year will not get accepted.

/derail