Marketing - How do you like yours?

[allington-marketing]

Hi All

Short and sweet (I say that now, but I'll probably end up writing a thesis!).

I am in a 50-50 debate about whether people would like to know upfront costs to any marketing campaigns, before even meeting me, rather than working on an hourly rate. I work closely with a telesales lady and I've recently produced a proposal for a client with the briefest brief imaginable, in which I put the costs for a variety of campaigns, for a variety of prospects and wondered if as end users, you would see the benefits in a 'build your own campaign' with clear costs. Items include:

• Postcard direct mail campaigns
• Letter direct mail campaigns
• Brochure / letter direct mail campaigns
• Email campaigns
• Telesales follow up

So, for example, if you had data of 1,000 clients, you could build a campaign for 3/6/12 months or however long, knowing that for £x, you'll get 3 email shots, a postcard campaign and telesales follow ups.

My costs include the design, print and management of everything, so it would be a one-off cost to the client, with no unexpected invoices.

So, my question is, would this be beneficial to end users? Or would they prefer to have a bespoke campaign created? (Naturally, the actual campaign and design would be bespoke). The 'Shop' part of my website gets the majority of hits via Google with people searching for 'cost to design A4 brochure' and similar (the reason why I put the shop there, so people could see the transparent prices). I am therefore assuming that a lot of people search for the cost of a campaign. Having an up front cost puts me at an advantage in that people have the convenience of finding a cost before they even meet me. The disadvantage is that, by knowing the cost, they may instead get other agencies in for comparison who can then 'woo' them and I wouldn't get the chance.

Please note that I am not using this as an opportunity to sell this service to you, but to gain an understanding as to whether you think an upfront cost would be an advantage to prospects.

Thank you for your time. Predictibly, I wrote an essay!

Terri

 

[CompactCleaning]

I personally would rather know up front but thats because I like to know for certain what somethings going to cost me. I'd do a mix depending on the client, or give them the option for fixed rate or per hour..

Compact Cleaning

 

[allington-marketing]

Hi Compact Cleaning
Thanks a lot for your feedback. My assumption is that whenever anything in my house goes wrong, for example, my boiler, it's so much easier to get a quote online, where appropriate. I would assume small businesses would like the same - upfront costs, so they know how much they'll be spending on marketing for a certain period of time. Thanks again!
Terri

 

[gemd89]

Hey, My web designers/developers do this - breaking the quote down so i can see specifically how much each part costs so i can have one thing - maybe put the other on hold etc etc

Gemma

 

[allington-marketing]

Hi Gemma
Thanks for your reply.
I would always break items down, but usually it's within a quotation upon request, which is why I was wondering if it would make more sense to have a breakdown of costs on my website (and as a downloadable PDF) to encourage clients to buy, or would they be put off?
Thanks
Terri

 

[gemd89]

I guess if you dont have the prices up and get 50 enquiries, then have the prices up and get none you know the reason is prices.

I always like to see things upfront so i would say yes but them on the website
Gemma

 

[allington-marketing]

Thanks, Gemma!

 

[Arthur Simon]

Participating in various exhibitions and trade shows is a good marketing technique. You get to brush shoulders with who's who of your industry and mingle with many businessmen. It helps to get yourself known in the circle!

 

[popunder]

I think most business owners would want at least an idea of costs as they may have no real clue, some will think they can get change from £50 and be shocked, others will think they'll have to pay thousands and be happily surprised. You'll win some and lose some but the enquiries you do get should be well qualified (ie: they know they can afford it).

I would put costs but express them as "a campaign like this would cost between £400 and £700" with the lower price being the bare minimum, you would then hope to upsell them a bit by offering better quality or double-sided postcards or whatever during the specification of the campaign.

Could you offer stage payments or monthly payments too to make it more affordable?

 

[XanderMarketing]

Hi Terri,

I've been having this debate with myself ever since I set my agency up. We've tried packages, 'frameworks' and just listing services.

Right now we're going through a 'services' stage - just listing those so businesses know what we do. The thing is every client is different and while they may have similar needs different campaigns will take different lengths of time to put together thus charging different prices. If a prospect likes our website and what we say they tend to get in touch whether we list services or have fixed priced packages.

Would be interested to see what you conclude and see what other people think.

Alex

 

[allington-marketing]

Hi Popunder and Xander
Seems that everyone has the 50-50 debate!
Popunder - I definitely agree that clients should pay in stages and, luckily for me, I have an understanding bunch of suppliers (mailhouses etc) who allow me to pay as work is done, instead of upfront! I don't think anyone wants to be hit with a £5m bill at the end of month one (although, from my perspective, if I could whack someone with a £5m bill, I shall be retiring immediately!).
Xander - it's 'nice' (for want of a better word) to know that you go through the same dilemma and as yet, haven't yet proved which method works. With regards to the cost of campaigning, me and my telesales lady agreed that, should a client not be a Peter (that comes from PITA, or "pain in the a***"..apologies to anyone called Peter!), then we will give them a nominal refund, but not tell them beforehand ("oh, erm hi, if you're nice, we'll give you money off"), so it's a nice surprise for them (and hopefully will result in recommendations!).
Even with my current online shop, I have had zero transactions. People don't want to just buy a brochure design; they want to talk to someone. This it has done; I have won new business through people knowing the upfront costs as they've phoned me to discuss before proceeding.
The dilemma rages on! I think I shall do it for a few months and see how I get on.

Thanks for your advice, chaps!
Terri

 

[allington-marketing]

Ha ha ha Gemma (gemd89) I love your footer "if it's minging, get ringing". best call to action, ever!

 

[Janebert]

Hi Terri,

I like the idea of fixed price packages, but I'm not sure you should put them on your website quite like that.

It's coming across to me that you're competing on price, and that's a good way to either burnout or bankruptcy in short order. If that's your only differentiator, then I'm not sure how sustainable your business will be in the long term.

I would never break prices down for clients unless there is some compelling reason to do so. Reason? Because it gives them more leverage points for "negotiation" i.e. haggling. If it's a fixed package of services, then the price is the price.

I noticed that your intro package was for a logo and I think printing of some stationery. £199 is far too low for this - the logo should be that on its own, unless you're giving people stock images and "canned logos". By going in at this end of the market, you're depriving people of accessing a "deluxe" service.

I would definitely not charge for anything by the hour unless you absolutely have to. People aren't buying "hours", they're buying results and paying by the hour makes most people nervous as they don't know how many hours it's going to take you to deliver their expected outcomes.

My suspicion is that you haven't really mapped out a clear enough target market or a position where you can become the expert, in order to provide greater value and charge higher prices. What might also be depressing your prices is going for the sale straight away on your site, rather than giving a free gift to visitors to begin a relationship and then following up until they're ready to buy.

If I'm really honest, your pricing is communicating lack of confidence to me. That means that you'll quite likely attract "problem child clients" - the perverse law of the universe is that the less people pay, the more they expect and demand - because they themselves lack self-esteem and struggle, so they press their suppliers really hard. Having been thru that myself, I would suggest that it's not a road you want to do down, as it is unlikely to give you the happy business that I'm sure you want, or the time freedom that your own business should give you.

My suggestion is that you get very clear about the target market that you really want to work with, whose problems you understand and who will appreciate what it is that only you can provide for them. Combine this with engaging the people who visit your website, instead of going for the sale straight away, educate them with your follow up and then you can let go of being a commodity and charging the lowest prices.

If you have to charge low prices, then you need more clients in order to make enough income to survive, let alone thrive. That means more effort getting new clients in the door and more effort trying to turn around work quickly and cheaply. I would argue that this won't give you or your clients the best experience.

I would also have to say that most small businesses these days don't need printed stationery and compliments slips. I received a letter just yesterday from a market leading company that was all printed on a laser printer - not pre-printed stationery. Personally, I would say to any start up that money spent on headed note paper was vanity spending and not going to give them the same ROI as spending the money on a good marketing strategy. However, spending money on the *design* of their headed notepaper might be a good idea

I would consider re-thinking your business strategy from the ground up. Your market is very generic - too generic in my opinion. This is usually what leads to the lack of focus and the commoditisation of services. People buy from people they know, like and trust - so all businesses need a strategy for building that relationship BEFORE making the sale if they want to stay out of the scrum of competing on price.

HTH,
Jane

 

[allington-marketing]

Hi Jane

Thanks for your message. I'll be honest, what you say has really hit home. I'm slowly moving away from small businesses and back into Financial Services and Professional Services, which are the areas I'm 'from'. If you go to my home page, you'll see there's an option for Financial Services and an option for small businesses now.
I have indeed had problem children, and it seems that the lower you charge, the more people think you don't know what you're doing. Also, the very small businesses do haggle everything.
My intention, when I started out, was to sell the set ups (logo, stationery etc) at a low cost so I could get marketing business off the back of it. And, because I have a wide skill set (of being a marketing, a tecchie and a graphic designer), to sell this to small businesses as a complete package.
I do completely agree with what you're saying, and, as a client/friend pointed out recently 'there's a difference between getting money and making money'.
The worst thing about it is that as a marketeer, I know you either compete on price or service (or being a niche player)...I'm attempting to do both, which stands against everything I tell my clients!
With regards to the online prices of actual campaigns, this was to almost give me an advantage in that it's not often you'll find the prices listed, and since people have no idea as to how much it would cost, this would at least put me at an advantage in that they know how much a campaign would cost and hopefully prompt them into a response.
I appreciate your feedback!
Terri

 

[TangerineDream]

This is a great question.
We operate a telemarketing company and deliver our service based upon a fixed monthly fee.
This has enabled us to create a 3 fixed packages based upon different amount of time. The result is we are able to be very clear with our prospects how about how much our service will cost and what they can expect to receive.
I have found this to be very useful. It enables companies to assess if they can afford the fee. Look at the return on investment and make good early decisions in assessing whether we are the type of company they are looking to work with.
In conclusion I love packages. I think it makes marketing services far easier to market to prospects

 

[allington-marketing]

Hi Tangerine Dream
I like the fact that you have the fixed prices for telesales, but they're not on your website. I suppose that once you get an enquiry, you send them this. Makes sense if I perhaps say 'fixed costs blah blah' and then send them prices upon enquiry.
Thanks for your help!

 

[TangerineDream]

Hi Allington Marketing
The website is a little old and we are currently in the last stages of re-launching a new site. This will be far more open about our methodology and provided a more modern aesthetic and message.

However, we do not publish our cost on the site, for telemarketing although we do publish the price for our email marketing. We use it as a marketing mechanism to gather enquiries from which we engage and price is one of several things that we will discuss early on so that we can assess if the enquiry is from a company we would like to do business with and if they could see themselves doing business with us.

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

This should be sickeningly obvious to any one who is 'in marketing' and chooses to call themselves a marketing consultant.

Things like price and the structuring of services are all KEY elements of marketing. The consultants should be helping normal business owners with problems like these. Not the other way around.

 

[AndyPhelps]

Interesting scenario, but do not give the agencies a sniff

 

[allington-marketing]

Scott, Thank you for your scathing message.
Initially this forum was posted to see if people would 'bite' at the idea of having a price list for campaigns on the website.
I haven't been 'up and running' that long (under one year)and thought initially I would concentrate my wide skill set on small businesses and new start ups and, as Janebert pointed out, this isn't necessarily the right way to go (and as I had stated, I was thinking of moving away from this arena).
I believe a forum is called as such as it's a place to gain ideas and share information and I am disappointed you have clearly taken offence, which must prove that you get a 100% response rate to any marketing you undertake for your clients, since marketing is about 'experimentation' and finding the right position, messages and target market. Congratualtions. I'm sure you'll be very rich with your foolproof 100% conversion rate marketing!
On the other hand, I like to use the forums as market research to discover what the end users and potential client base might think...

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

Scott, Thank you for your scathing message.
Initially this forum was posted to see if people would 'bite' at the idea of having a price list for campaigns on the website.
I haven't been 'up and running' that long (under one year)and thought initially I would concentrate my wide skill set on small businesses and new start ups and, as Janebert pointed out, this isn't necessarily the right way to go (and as I had stated, I was thinking of moving away from this arena).
I believe a forum is called as such as it's a place to gain ideas and share information and I am disappointed you have clearly taken offence, which must prove that you get a 100% response rate to any marketing you undertake for your clients, since marketing is about 'experimentation' and finding the right position, messages and target market. Congratualtions. I'm sure you'll be very rich with your foolproof 100% conversion rate marketing!
On the other hand, I like to use the forums as market research to discover what the end users and potential client base might think...

I just don't understand this 'debate' and '50/50' thing. This is the kind of stuff which business owners contact marketing consultants to help with. It's what I'd expect a marketing consultant to give me clear and expert advice on - based on their experience, knowledge and skills. It's not particularly advanced.

Of course nothing is foolproof. No one is perfect. However, I'd expect a marketing consultant to be able to take the lead and apply their knowledge to come up with a credible solution which works reasonably well. What I wouldn't expect is 'I don't know'.

Perhaps it's just the way your post is worded. Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like you really do not know and are seeking the answer from someone on here, as opposed to fine-tweaking your own marketing idea with some feedback from business owners. I apologise if that is not the case.

Anyway, this sort of thing is pointless. Unless everyone is well versed in sales psychology, they will just give you mountains of personal opinions which often conflict. If you really want to test an idea, then it has to be split-tested so you have an unbiased statistical outcome. After all, it's the sales which count.

 

[eventdomain]

Companies that dont display prices aren't worth bothering with.

You know as soon as you ring them, it will be over-priced - I've experienced this first hand many times and you try to negotiate, but they wont have it. Good job theres many others to do it cheaper and just as good IMO.


heres some sales psych - people will always want to know the cost upfront.... comes from years of retail exp, telesales and web sales. They always ask "How much". If you refuse to make this vital info accessible, they'll assume your hiding it for a reason and not that its bcos of bespoke terms or a timely thing. They'll just think

why are you hiding this from me?

 

[mrtapes]

Clean, Measurable, Fresh and with a genuine promotional discount.

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

Companies that dont display prices aren't worth bothering with.

You know as soon as you ring them, it will be over-priced - I've experienced this first hand many times and you try to negotiate, but they wont have it. Good job theres many others to do it cheaper and just as good IMO.

heres some sales psych - people will always want to know the cost upfront.... comes from years of retail exp.

Here's more sales psych: people cannot always know how much something costs as soon as they visit a page. It's an utterly ridiculous blanket-statement. Mind you, it's nowhere near as ridiculous as the following:

Companies that dont display prices aren't worth bothering with.

With some services, you cannot provide a fixed fee. There are just way too many factors. What you can do is speak to a prospect, ask some questions and then build a bespoke quote. That's as up-front as anything, because they have their price and can either say 'yes' or 'no' before you charge them a single penny.

Anyway, credible businesses won't 'negotiate' to that degree because they know the value of their services, they have a business to run and they have bills to pay. If you're the type of person to have a go at doing that before taking the gamble with a far cheaper service supplier, then by all means go ahead. Thankfully, there are people out there who understand value, understand how much time goes into a good quality service, and they're prepared to pay for it.

They always ask "How much". If you refuse to make this vital info accessible, they'll assume your hiding it for a reason and not that its bcos of bespoke terms or a timely thing. They'll just think 'why are you hiding this from me?'

I cannot even begin to fathom how much nonsense has been crammed into these three sentences. Potential customers are not all skeptical and paranoid people who assume everything you're doing is some kind of scam. They're actually intelligent people who understand how it all works. If there are people out there who fit the description you've given, then I'd much rather decline to work for them and point them elsewhere, to be honest.

If you have fixed prices to display, then do it. If you don't, then do not even bother to attempt it.

 

[eventdomain]

There are just way too many factors

won't 'negotiate' to that degree because they know the value of their services

Oh please, I've dealt with agencies that offer bespoke services and have easily gotten a fixed price right in front of them. So dont try and tell me different okay

taking the gamble with a far cheaper service supplier, then by all means go ahead.

Sounds like sour grapes to me, like your wishing the prospect gets a bad deal or job, just bcos they wont pay inflated fees...

They're actually intelligent people who understand how it all works.

Ahhh, the 'consultant drivel' the marketing bs, which says

oh, but if you pay us £6000, we'll do our best, but your just paying us for our time, and we cannot guarantee results bcos, well, it just doesn't work like that you see

Like most outside promotion forces, its out of everyones control. The platform being used or sold to on behalf of a client eg: PPC isn't owned by the consultants at all, and to further the risk, clicks are given by a further external force eg: people, again - something the agency has no control over.

I could suggest the same with marketing and PR agencies.... But its amazing how the agencies claim amazing results, when in actual fact, clients get zilch most of the time. They still expect a huge fee though - what for exactly, they cant guarantee the results.

Once had a quote for a redesign - the guy wanted £10k, I knew I could get it done for £2k, and guess who didn't get the contract

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

Oh please, I've dealt with agencies that offer bespoke services and have easily gotten a fixed price right in front of them. So dont try and tell me different okay

Services? There's HUNDREDS of services. Thousands, in fact. It's utterly absurd to tar them all with the same brush. There are plenty of services which you can provide a fixed price for, and plenty you cannot.

I seem to recall you having a previous problem where you provide blanket-statements based on your own personal experience. However, I cannot remember them being as bad as:

Companies that dont display prices aren't worth bothering with.

Sounds like sour grapes to me, like your wishing the prospect gets a bad deal or job, just bcos they wont pay inflated fees...

Of course not. I've wished every person the best of luck who has chosen to find a much cheaper alternative. However, life is too short to worry about it, so the people who want to go down that route are free to do so. I'd rather focus all of my attention on those who would like to pay for my services. After all, they are the people paying me, so they deserve 100% of my time and effort, don't they?

Ahhh, the 'consultant drivel' the marketing bs, which says
Quote:
oh, but if you pay us £6000, we'll do our best, but your just paying us for our time, and we cannot guarantee results bcos, well, it just doesn't work like that you see

Not many service providers can guarantee results, and they would be quite frankly stupid to do so (unless they could actually 100% guarantee it, or provide a money-back guarantee).

Believe it or not, that's how a lot of service-based business works. The majority of the cost is based on the time the provider puts into your business. You take up more of their time, they charge more. Results-based charging can work equally as well, but it depends on the service.

I could suggest the same with marketing and PR agencies.... But its amazing how the agencies claim amazing results, when in actual fact, clients get zilch most of the time. They still expect a huge fee though - what for exactly, they cant guarantee the results.

Once had a quote for a redesign - the guy wanted £10k, I knew I could get it done for £2k, and guess who didn't get the contract

Another ridiculous blanket-statement.

Once had a quote for a redesign - the guy wanted £10k, I knew I could get it done for £2k, and guess who didn't get the contract

Guess who is undercharging for his time and having to take on five more clients just to make up what the more expensive person charges for one project.

You make it sound like he's some sort of genius because he has very low prices and you decided to choose the cheaper option, when in fact, he's probably the least successful out of the two (if the larger fee is a fair reflection of the quality of his work).

I'd never, ever suggest overcharging extortionate fees. All I would suggest is charging a fair amount based on your skills, experience, knowledge and ability to achieve results. When you do that and put your abilities into practice for a client, it will pay off 99.9% of the time for both parties.

 

[allington-marketing]

Wow. I've certainly kicked up some reaction here!
And the debate rages on! Whether to offer pricing as part of my website.

Scott-copyanddesign, I completely understand your point of view, but as I'm sure you'll understand, everything is about experimentation. Even you have some fixed prices on your website, I have noticed! You don't have all, however!

I am not saying 'come to me and get a complete rebrand, bespoke strategy and campaign for £10m'. What I would like to put on is 'off the shelf' type campaigns. For example, I have done enough campaigns to know how long it will take to produce copy for a brochure, then design it. I know how much time it takes to produce a covering letter, print everything and mail them. I also know how much my 'partner' telesales lady charges for callbacks. So, I can say 'for £x, get 1,000 brochures, a covering letter, printed and mailed, with telesales follow up'. I am not talking about having prices for the more bespoke items, but for the straightforward.

My thinking came about because the majority of people within analytics who visit my website have come to the shop part of my site when searching for 'cost of 8 page brochure', for example. People often do want to know the prices upfront and they don't always want to contact five agencies to get a rough idea of price. Some people may be cheaper, some more expensive, but at least I can say my prices are transparent.

Thank you to everyone for your input! I'm going to go with it and see what happens!

Terri

 

[eventdomain]

You take up more of their time, they charge more. Results-based charging can work equally as well, but it depends on the service.

It depends, yes, thought it might. So I might get lucky, but chances are I'll end up being mugged. Oh great

This is known as a Contract for Services, which means you must get a result for the client. You can't work like your on a Contract OF service, you're not an employee and cannot get away with just doing the hours with bugger all result. You'll get lynched... you'll spend so much time in court and fire-fighting, your rep will be shot down. Such a service provider may 'get away' with it for a while, but your business reputation will suffer.

Not many service providers can guarantee results, and they would be quite frankly stupid to do so

But you're being paid, so you have to - legally!!!! This is law, if you take their money and provide nothing, then its theft and deception and you'll be put in prison.

This is what happens when you take money and dont give the results:

http://www.v3.co.uk/vnunet/news/2116447/teen-charged-150-internet-fraud

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

It depends, yes, thought it might. So I might get lucky, but chances are I'll end up being mugged. Oh great

This is known as a Contract for Services, which means you must get a result for the client. You can't work like your on a Contract OF service, you're not an employee and cannot get away with just doing the hours with bugger all result. You'll get lynched... you'll spend so much time in court and fire-fighting, your rep will be shot down. Such a service provider may 'get away' with it for a while, but your business reputation will suffer.

Have you been severely ripped off in the past, or something? You have a very negative, sceptical and pessimistic view of business as a whole. Do you think that every business which isn't bound to a guarantee of results will try to scam you? I'm not bound by my results and I work as hard as I can on every project I do for the best results I can manage. The vast majority of business owners are the same.

Anyway, there are a lot of cases where results guarantees cannot work. For example:

SEO: No credible SEO can guarantee first position, because a competitor could suddenly pump a million pounds into their SEO and grab the top spot - despite your best efforts.

Copywriting: I can write copy which is designed to provide a very strong conversion rate. However, targeted traffic needs to be directed to the website, otherwise they will never convert into customers. I could write superbly polished copy, but if a client is getting 5 visitors a month who aren't remotely interested in the product/service, then there won't be any sales.

Graphic design: How do you guarantee the results of a design? How do you measure what looks good?

Just three examples where nothing can be guaranteed. As you said yourself, there are far too many external factors. You've just got to do your best and 99.9% of the time, the results will be great and the investment from the client will be well worth it for them.

But you're being paid, so you have to - legally!!!! This is law, if you take their money and provide nothing, then its theft and deception and you'll be put in prison.

This is what happens when you take money and dont give the results:

We're not talking about scamming! People can do their best and provide a good service with good results. What they cannot often do is provide a guaranteed result. If you have a contracted guarantee, you must base it on a precise tangible figure or outcome. That's impossible to do in many cases.

The only thing you can guarantee is what you're going to do for the client. For example, if I say I'm going to write copy for five pages, I will write copy for five pages. If a client would like three leaflet designs, I will do all three. However, I cannot imagine a credible business working any other way.

 

[allington-marketing]

Hi
My forum seems to have changed from a 'should I display my prices' into a full blown row of something not relevant to my original post. Perhaps, Scott, you should produce a new thread for your grievances?
Terri

 

[john resident]

I completely agree that it is impossible for someone in marketing to give guarantee of results from their services (for Scotts reasons above for a start)

However what I would insist on is a clear measurement of results.

To be able to test what has been done and its effectiveness.

My own experience with marketing services hasn't been great. I have had to fight for refunds from people because on their initial pitch they've offered all sorts of great things that have materialised into vague waffle.

I realise that a marketing idea may result in no sales however at least if its measured, tested, tested and measured you know where you are. Rather than having to sit through soundbites such as strategic guerrilla viral marketing etc.

So as an example if I was looking to work with Scott on increasing my conversion rate on a website (which at some point I'd like to because he seems to talk complete common sense) I would look at how I am directing traffic to the site, what my current conversion rate is etc and and then would want to implement a defined campaign with Scott which could be measured. That way I wouldnt be guaranteed results but at least I'd be able to measure them.

Allington: sorry to hijack your post but relevant to the initial discussion. If I was to consider your services I would want you to have some niche or specialisation which I could relate to. For example you mention financial services however in what way does your experience help me if I am a financial services company?

And as far as prices are concerned I see marketing as an investment. If your marketing made me money why wouldnt I keep doing it. However what I wouldnt be keen on is spending lots of money upfront only to find out its not working for me and we cant work with each other.

John

 

[allington-marketing]

Hi John
Thanks for your input.
My niche is that I'm an all rounder. So, as well as being a strategic marketeer, I'm a tecchie and designer. This is why I thought I would appeal to small businesses as everything is under one roof. However, as aforementioned, this is not necessarily working.
I would say my niche-niche would be within the Lloyd's market. There are lots of Financial Services marketing companies out there, but ask them what they think of captives being right for larger companies, they'll freeze. So I am "down with the lingo". Also, in terms of compliance, there's so much more that you can and cannot say / do than simply following the CAP Code, for example. There's the FSA Financial Promotions Policy. So rather than offering a 'bit of fluffy marketing', which it then turns out (via compliance) can't be implemented, I offer practical solutions, which can be implemented, despite the red tape!
In terms again of the Lloyd's Market, I'd say around 90% don't have any form of marketing. It's a great, untapped market, yet, at the same time, they don't see the need, so it's my job to convince them otherwise.
Thanks for making me think. I appreciate I've just bored you, but you got my juices flowing!

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

Hi John
Thanks for your input.
My niche is that I'm an all rounder. So, as well as being a strategic marketeer, I'm a tecchie and designer. This is why I thought I would appeal to small businesses as everything is under one roof. However, as aforementioned, this is not necessarily working.
I would say my niche-niche would be within the Lloyd's market. There are lots of Financial Services marketing companies out there, but ask them what they think of captives being right for larger companies, they'll freeze. So I am "down with the lingo". Also, in terms of compliance, there's so much more that you can and cannot say / do than simply following the CAP Code, for example. There's the FSA Financial Promotions Policy. So rather than offering a 'bit of fluffy marketing', which it then turns out (via compliance) can't be implemented, I offer practical solutions, which can be implemented, despite the red tape!
In terms again of the Lloyd's Market, I'd say around 90% don't have any form of marketing. It's a great, untapped market, yet, at the same time, they don't see the need, so it's my job to convince them otherwise.
Thanks for making me think. I appreciate I've just bored you, but you got my juices flowing!

If your website is your main marketing stage then I can quite clearly see why it isn't working.

Look at your services page. All it does is list your services. It doesn't mention anything about why you're so good or why you should be chosen above all others. Instead of using the prime first line to provide any sort of hook or benefit, you've just spoke about why you haven't listed everything because you don't want it to be dull reading. That's not really going to convince people to give you a call, is it? It serves no purpose.

You seem to do a lot of design, but I cannot find any examples of your design work. If I go to add some business cards to my cart, I'm essentially, at that point, buying a blank rectangle with a pink border.

I've had a look through the rest of the pages and there's zero compelling content. Even your website copywriting descriptions offer nothing. There's text there, but when you break it down, it doesn't contain any actual information which the visitor can use in their decision-making process. Sure, you can use the copy to connect with the reader, but you have to use that connection to close the sale.

The only benefit I notice there is 'we can do it so you don't have to' which, on its own, is about as un-compelling as it can get.

So, forget about packages and forget about the 'bespoke or fixed price' debate for now. They will make virtually NO difference unless you get the website sorted first (along with your marketing methods, if they follow the same vein).

In terms again of the Lloyd's Market, I'd say around 90% don't have any form of marketing. It's a great, untapped market, yet, at the same time, they don't see the need, so it's my job to convince them otherwise.

Then it isn't a market. You will always set yourself up for an uphill struggle if you try to create your own market. There are people out there actively looking for services and willing to pay for them. Focus on that. The only alternative is to convince someone that they need your type of service and THEN convince that person that they should use you. It's double the effort (probably more like triple, actually).

PS: A niche 'all-rounder' doesn't make any sense.

 

[john resident]

Is there such a niche as an all rounder?

Why not put yourself in your potential customers shoes. For example me.

I run a couple of businesses, one being a financial services business. If I looked around for a marketing service for this company I would choose one that specialises in financial services. Compliance would be a consideration but more so a knowledge of how to market to your target market - a crude example being the target market for First Direct versus Coutts.

Also I'd want to see examples of campaigns you'd rolled out to other similiar firms so you already had some heads up of what types of marketing works.

What I would want to hear is "being a strategic marketeer" because unless you can explain what that means its is meaningless.

Cheers
John

 

[allington-marketing]

Hi
I think you're both missing the point.
I am in the process of updating my website. The small business one that you're both referring to will become redundant.
Yes, there is such a thing as an all round marketer - unless you're suggesting it's better for me to set a strategy and then say 'sorry, I'm not going to implement it, as, despite having all the skills, that's no longer an area in which I work...good luck finding a graphic/web/SEO agency'. No I'm not, because that's the problem with many marketers, they are strategy only, then the client is left to manage the implementation. So that is a strong selling point.
Like it or not, Scott, I am concentrating on Lloyd's. This market is entirely based on relationships, so almost the website doesn't come into it; especially considering you've reviewed a website that is soon to be redundant...

 

[john resident]

Hey Allington,

You put up a post asking for feedback - as a potential customer I gave you my feedback. You can either take it on board, dismiss it or say I'm missing the point.

But unless you add value and the benefits to ME of what you're selling then to keep repeating you're an all round marketer isnt enough I'm afraid.

 

[allington-marketing]

I asked for feedback as to whether I should put project prices up on my website and, to be honest, Scott's responses to me have been nothing less than aggressive. So perhaps I have taken a defensive approach.

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

I asked for feedback as to whether I should put project prices up on my website and, to be honest, Scott's responses to me have been nothing less than aggressive. So perhaps I have taken a defensive approach.

:| It was constructive advice to try and help you. I just have a habit of being a tad blunt at times.

Hi
I think you're both missing the point.
I am in the process of updating my website. The small business one that you're both referring to will become redundant.
Yes, there is such a thing as an all round marketer - unless you're suggesting it's better for me to set a strategy and then say 'sorry, I'm not going to implement it, as, despite having all the skills, that's no longer an area in which I work...good luck finding a graphic/web/SEO agency'. No I'm not, because that's the problem with many marketers, they are strategy only, then the client is left to manage the implementation. So that is a strong selling point.
Like it or not, Scott, I am concentrating on Lloyd's. This market is entirely based on relationships, so almost the website doesn't come into it; especially considering you've reviewed a website that is soon to be redundant...

I said what I said because I thought you stated that your sales were not as high as you had hoped:

So, as well as being a strategic marketeer, I'm a tecchie and designer. This is why I thought I would appeal to small businesses as everything is under one roof. However, as aforementioned, this is not necessarily working.

After looking around, I think there are other much more prominent issues which will be hampering sales and need to be ironed out first. I also think that these issues would completely mask any sort of improvement if you optimised your pricing strategy and business model.

Apologies if that's completely irrelevant, but that's just what I deciphered from your last few posts and that sentence in bold.

 

[Scott-Copywriter]

I asked for feedback as to whether I should put project prices up on my website and, to be honest, Scott's responses to me have been nothing less than aggressive. So perhaps I have taken a defensive approach.

I'll actually answer this question directly to try and be of some help.

If you have fixed project prices = Put them on your website

If you can't provide a fixed price = Don't put them up

Trying to fix the rate which is otherwise bespoke will often mean that you're overcharging some clients and undercharging others. Many people do appreciate when a quote is bespoke, because they realise that they're paying the precise value for what they're getting.

There are only three real reasons why you shouldn't put prices on your site:

1). They're bespoke and tailored to each prospect
2). You're in a competitive specialist industry where prices need to be shielded
3). Prices are far too complex (or projects are far too complex) to be able to realistically display on your website

If your services don't fit into any of these categories, then there's no real reason to avoid displaying your prices, and they should be put up.

 

[astutiumRob]

if it would make more sense to have a breakdown of costs on my website (and as a downloadable PDF) to encourage clients to buy, or would they be put off?

If a site/supplier/whatever doesn't show the pricing of a product or service, I'll move on to the next oe that does - and I'd guess there are other people who "see" things the same way